Analyzing required animals by Taxonomical group

Interesting. Is there any reason why? That's a shame, as I think they're beautiful animals
Oops mistake on my part, only in europe there are no bontebok not more. Seemingly its a tree kangaroo situation, where AZA and EAZA agreed to focus on different closely related species, as both tend to hybridise, but what i found while there are 55 European Zoos that keep blesbok, it seems that only a handfull of zoos in north america keep bontebok, most notably oregon zoo, zoo atlanta, sandiegeo safari park, memphis zoo and nashvile zoo, but there could very well be more as the aza really wants more zoos to keep them, i even found a little introduction flyer with information about the bontebok for zoos specifically.
https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...0b166b0e000116a9d4/1558487450813/Bontebok.pdf
I also mixed it up, the antelope actually dying out with only 1 single individual remaining in europe and as far as i could find no in north america, is the hartebeest
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Yeah, I was gonna say, I’m quite positive that what I’ve seen are bontebok. Granted, the two places I’ve seen them, Zoo Atlanta and Disney's Animal Kingdom, both only have a single individual. Disney might not even have heirs anymore, since it was said to be elderly as of my visit last year. But Atlanta’s is a very new acquisition, within the past 6 months, so I imagine it’s got some life in it yet.
 
Antelope:
Antelope definitely have the best representation out of hoofstock in PZ and there's nothing I'd deem necessary, but I'd be fine with at least one more larger African antelope (either a kudu or eland), an addax, or one Indian antelope (the blackbuck, a Zoo Tycoon classic, or alternatively the nilgai which is extremely common in low-budget zoos). A small antelope like a Kirk's dik-dik or blue duiker would also be nice to have, but if forced to choose I'd go for a small deer species (earlier in the thread I mentioned pudus and muntjacs).

Viverroids:
The fossa is a highly-requested animal and an obvious future inclusion for an islands pack. Otherwise, nothing leaps out as necessary, though if we were guaranteed a long DLC lifespan I wouldn't mind some kind of civet.

Turtles:
The sulcata tortoise is such a common and endangered zoo animal, and distinct enough from our two current tortoises (which, mind you, still need size increases!), that I see it as pretty necessary for the game. Arguably necessary as well is a second New World tortoise, like the red-footed tortoise, that would be again great for low-budget zoos and for Neotropical-focused tropical houses. I think we could also use one more exhibit turtle, and my choice would be the common snapping turtle--another very common zoo animal that could actually use the full 4x4x4 boxes in real life and which I think Frontier could do very well. I don't think sea turtles would fit in the game unless Frontier adds mechanics for fully-aquatic animals--females only ever leave the water to lay eggs.

Crocodilians:
I didn't think we needed a second caiman, but I'd still like to see one more crocodilian representing Africa. The Nile crocodile is the obvious choice, but I'd be just as happy with a dwarf crocodile, which would be perfect for reptile and tropical houses. I wouldn't be opposed to a Chinese alligator due to its unique range and conservation value, but I don't see it as necessary with limited DLC slots remaining.
 
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Antelopes: I think this is a group where we can really never have too many. With that in mind, it’s a bit of a shame we didn’t see any as DLC during the first two years. Year 3 brought it back around with three new antelope, two of which were very much needed (sorry Nile lechwe), so I would love to see Year 4 continue this trend. The blackbuck is probably the best overall choice, giving us our first Asian antelope and a very unique looking one at that. The nilgai would also be nice for those same reasons, but it’s a bit less striking and I believe a bit less prevalent in captivity, so it’s a much lower priority. As for African antelope, I think the addax is the best choice. Its white coat and unique wavy horns make it an incredibly unique option, and the facts that it’s both a desert dweller and critically endangered are icing on the cake. The greater kudu is a solid second choice there, though. It’s absolutely iconic and set apart by its large size. Either eland species would also work in that regard, but they’re less visually striking and also, I believe, a bit less common in captivity. I’m also a huge fan of the bontebok - another conservation success story (seriously, read up on how the entire species was saved thanks to farmers managing to corral up the last ones in the early 20th century) and an absolutely beautiful coat. As for other full-sized antelope, I wouldn’t hate the impala, Addra gazelle, or sitatunga but I’m not dying for them; I think the saiga isn’t really necessary and while I know they have their genuine fans they overall strike me as a meme pick; the gerenuk weirds me out but I guess it’s fine; the roan antelope and Arabian oryx would be acceptable only in a designated clones pack.

For smaller antelope, I’d strongly prefer a duiker over the alternatives. Red-flanked is my preference, but really any of the common species would be welcome. Kirk's dik-dik and the klipsringer are the two others worth mention, and while I wouldn’t be opposed to either, I much prefer the synergy that a duiker would bring to the existing roster. A klipspringer would feel out of place without rock hyrax or another mongoose species for support, but the duiker slots in perfectly with our okapi and next to our existing tropical Africa lineup. Meanwhile, the dik-dik just sort of exists as its own less desirable thing, lacking the synergy of the duiker or the rock climbing appeal of the klipspringer.

Viverroids: Well, I think the fossa speaks for itself. We don’t have any Malagasy carnivores in the game, and it’s by far the most popular and prevalent. Naturally, it’d also allow us to make a Madagascar section that’s more than just a lemur section, but it’s also a small arboreal carnivore that can stand on its own on that basis. Easy, obvious inclusion. I’d also be remiss to not mention my personal favorite ring-tailed vontsira here. They’re a stunning creature, but they’re obscure and only kept in a small handful of zoos, so they’re obviously far from essential. I just think they’re neat.

In the viverrid camp, I’d love to see one more. The African civet has its appeal, being a large-ish African ground carnivore that’s not a cat, dog, or hyena. But for my money, I think the common genet is hands down one of the most versatile species we could get. It offers African, Middle Eastern, and (introduced) European representation. It’s (again) a small arboreal carnivore. I’ve seen them feature in both tropical houses and desert houses. It’s the perfect filler animal in my eyes, and easily justifiable even given just one more year of support.

Turtles: We are so desperately far behind where we should be with these guys. Unfortunately, I also think that our exhibit slots are destined for bigger and more unique things this year, so it’s very difficult to justify even a single smaller turtle at this point, for as much as we ought to have them. I think a few more habitat species are the way to go, with the African spurred tortoise being the obvious frontrunner. It would be our first mainland tortoise, a desert species, endangered, and exceptionally common in zoos of all sizes. And while I don’t actually expect to get more than one more, tops, I do think the radiated tortoise might be the best option for a second addition. It would provide some much needed visual contrast with our otherwise very dull tortoises (this would include the African spurred), it’s critically endangered, and if paired with the fossa we could actually pull off a halfway diverse Madagascar area. I’ve seen arguments that these guys should be exhibit species given their size, but personally I’ve only ever seen them in open outdoor enclosures. I guess I also may as well bring up the alligator snapping turtle, a species I used to be very passionate about, but I’ve since lost most of my interest. Still, it would pair well with the alligator and be truly unique from anything else in the game, but their sedentary nature extends above and beyond what I’m interested in allowing for a habitat species. I wouldn’t be upset if we got it, but overall I’d much prefer additional land-based species. Also, I have 0 interest in a sea turtle, and think that even though they would technically work with our current habitat system, it isn’t remotely optimized for a nearly fully aquatic species.

Crocodilians: I think an African species would be nice to see, and I still think a slender-snouted crocodile what we should’ve gotten over the spectacled caiman. Can I justify a sixth crocodilian with as little as one year of support left, though? I’m not sure. It would be another medium sized species, somewhat visually unique and flesh out tropical Africa a bit, as well as cover the conspicuous absence of an African crocodile, but I’m just not sure it’s warranted when there’s so many other things to add. Either way, it’s preferable to the Nile crocodile, whose only real edge over the saltie as far as I’m concerned is being from Africa.
I'd argue that the lechwe was more needed than the wildebeest. At the time we didn't have any aquatic antelope aside from sort of the nyala so while I would have preferred a waterbuck tge lechwe covers tge same needed niche. The wildebeest was just another savannah antelope. A good looking one I'll say but we also already had a wildebeest. I'll agree with the oryx though, definitely a good choice.
 
I'd argue that the lechwe was more needed than the wildebeest. At the time we didn't have any aquatic antelope aside from sort of the nyala so while I would have preferred a waterbuck tge lechwe covers tge same needed niche. The wildebeest was just another savannah antelope. A good looking one I'll say but we also already had a wildebeest. I'll agree with the oryx though, definitely a good choice.
I like the blue wildebeest because it's basically a direct upgrade to the base game black wildebeest--much better model and much more common in captivity. In hindsight it's weird that Frontier added the less iconic of the two species first.
 
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We certainly didn’t need two wildebeest, but we needed the blue wildebeest regardless of any other factors. It’s far too iconic, to the extent that I’d argue that it’s the most recognizable and identifiable antelope for the general populace, aside from a generic gazelle (Thomson’s, really, but I wouldn’t expect non-animal nerds to know that). I mean, really it should’ve been included in the base game instead of the black wildebeest. The black wildebeest shouldn’t have even been a part of the picture, but its inclusion didn’t negate the importance of the blue wildebeest or cover it’s nice or anything.

I’ll agree that a wetlands antelope was desirable, but the nile lechwe itself wasn’t specifically important in the same way the scimitar oryx and blue wildebeest were. It’s a good inclusion, I just don’t think it was an essential one. Personally I would’ve preferred the waterbuck.
 
Antelope: one of the two most essential animals left to make a passable India section is the blackbuck, which also has a unique appearance and ZT history/popularity so this is the essential for me. Nilgai would be an acceptable alternative to me. I don't think anything else is essential since we already have good representation in Africa but my picks there would include the standard yellow-backed duiker/dik-dik but also the klipspringer. I think saiga makes sense within the argument that a lot of off-forum players are going for unique species over zoo realism, but it's a distant second to the blackbuck/an Indian antelope, and maybe even after a second/smaller African one. I'd love Arabian oryx too but fourth in this preference structure.

Viverroids: fossa, of course! I don't think anything else is an S-tier need in this category. But I'd subjectively really like an Asian palm civet to add smaller animals to tropical Asia. Objectively, I think an African civet or common genet would be higher-tiered to serve a similar niche in other regions.

Turtles: hot take but I think I'd tier 2-3 new turtles over almost all remaining crocodilians. Hotter take but the spurred tortoise isn't so compelling to me since we have two large ground tortoises already and I'd rather the desert or Indian star tortoise in that category to fill out the "smaller animal" niche in the US Southwest and India. I think the star tortoise (Indian or Burmese would be fine) is an underrated smaller tortoise pick with high conservation value, unique shell patterns and good geography. In terms of aquatic turtles, a sea turtle would be paradigm-shifting but I also think there are at least three species that strike me as good habitat picks: the obvious alligator snapping, but also arrau river turtle and Indian giant narrow-headed softshell turtle. Arrau because of the immense value to Amazonian flooded forests, and Indian softshell because it makes for a nice mix with gharial (I think some combo of San Diego, Bronx and WRS Singapore have something like this). Freshwater turtle are so endangered that a few would be nice. I think "essential" would be a stretch given the limited slots, but I personally prioritize this reptile diversification over a lot of the other taxonomies.

Crocodilians: maybe as the flip side to turtles, I don't need more crocodilians, personally/subjectively. One from Africa is probably going to be an objective essential for the community. I'd be indifferent on which. Slender-snouted looks more unique and has more interesting biome possibilities. Nile can go in Madagascar sections.
 
Discussion #7: Antelopes*, Viverroids**, Turtles, crocodilians

What we have:

Antelopes:
  1. Black wildebeest
  2. Bongo
  3. Gemsbok
  4. Nyala
  5. Sable antelope
  6. Springbok
  7. Thomson's gazelle
  8. NIle lechwe
  9. Scimitar horned oryx
  10. Blue Wildebeest

Viverroids (Malgasy carnivores, genets, civets...)
  • Binturong

Turtles
  • Aldabra giant tortoise
  • Diamondback terrapin
  • Galapagos giant tortoise
Crocodilians
  • Americsn Alligator
  • Cuvier's dwarf caiman
  • Gharial
  • Saltwater crocodile
  • Spectacled caiman

Explain what you think is still needed from the aforementioned groups, and give your reasoning as to why. Take into account that slots in the roster are not unlimited, so try to keep the discussion realistic.

*Bovines and caprines not inckuded as they will get their own discussion
**Viverroids include hyenas and mongooses as well, but they already got their own discussions
Viverroids:
I'm not too fussed about a civet or genet getting in the game, though I wouldn't complain if we got the Common Genet or some sort of civet. However, I do find the Fossa to be necessary to feel closer to completing Madagascar's representation (it's not the only thing from there that I want, but it's the most realistic).

Turtles:
In terms of tortoises, I nominate the African Spurred Tortoise and the Radiated Tortoise to finish it off, the third largest tortoise and a critically endangered Madagascan rep. I find the AST to be the most necessary of the two for desert and North African representation. Not entirely sure yet if habitat turtles are even plausible just yet, but under the assumption that they are, the Alligator Snapping Turtle is the most iconic non-marine turtle that I think is large enough to work in full habitats, possibly cohabitating with the alligator? I'd also bring up the Pig-Nosed Turtle for an Oceanian softshell turtle, and the Green Sea Turtle if at all possible. More exhibit turtles are probably really unlikely, but a snake-necked turtle and a slider are probably too iconic to not consider essential, maybe a map turtle of some kind too.

Crocodilians:
I don't think any more crocodilians are essential in all honesty, but as a croc lover, I could take more. An African crocodiles species would be good for variety, don't care which tho tbh, Dwarf, Nile or a Slender-Snout. I would personally really like the Freshwater Crocodile as an Australian (literally the only crocodile in ZTXBOX, the rest are caimans). I would also like the Chinese Alligator and False Gharial, as that would finish their respective groups (if you separate gators from caimans), and I'm a huge sucker for Asian animals.

Antelope:
Okay, this is the big one for me. I only think two species could be considered essential, the Addax and the Blackbuck. Addax as more North African representation, conservation history, and my personal association with it and the Scimitar-Horned Oryx back in ZT2 (so no, I don't think the two species overlap too much). The Blackbuck would add our first Asian antelope, and it honestly just feels like a no-brainer at this point (very disappointed we got a second wildebeest over it). I would like to add special mention to the Saiga Antelope, which despite it's miniscule captive presence nowadays (which still baffles me I can't find why they aren't kept anymore), it's too unique to ignore. It's very rare existence in captivity marks it at just below essential however. I would also be dumb if I didn't acknowledge a species of duiker, probably the Yellow-Backed Duiker. I don't have a connection to duikers, like, at all, but I do find them interesting enough that I think they're notable enough to be a priority antelope. Beyond these 4, I shall rattle of a list of antelope species should the game continue for longer than expected, or for a potential sequel: Arabian Oryx, Bontebok, Dama Gazelle Gerenuk, Giant Eland, Greater Kudu, Impala, Kirk's Dik-Dik, Nilgai, Roan Antelope. All these are species I think could be interesting, but are not worth including with limited roster space (like, maybe one or two could get lucky like the blue wildebeest idk).
 
I would like to add special mention to the Saiga Antelope, which despite it's miniscule captive presence nowadays (which still baffles me I can't find why they aren't kept anymore), it's too unique to ignore. It's very rare existence in captivity marks it at just below essential however.
They just never managed to grab a foothold in captivity.
They allways were rather rare in zoos and of the 2 still holding them today, one of them only has them since 2015 and the other zoo acts as a breeding station for more releases into the wild with a herd of allmost 300.
The fact that almaty zoo got theres quite recently and has successfully bred them gives me hope though that they might spread across europe in the comming years, but we will just have to wait and see
 
They just never managed to grab a foothold in captivity.
They allways were rather rare in zoos and of the 2 still holding them today, one of them only has them since 2015 and the other zoo acts as a breeding station for more releases into the wild with a herd of allmost 300.
The fact that almaty zoo got theres quite recently and has successfully bred them gives me hope though that they might spread across europe in the comming years, but we will just have to wait and see
Hopefully, would love to see them in person some day.
 
Saiga Antelope, which despite it's miniscule captive presence nowadays (which still baffles me I can't find why they aren't kept anymore)
Saiga isnt just sustainable:
  • it breed like crazy with 2/3 borns being twins, but a lot of them dying and many males also are dying shortly after mating for some reason.
  • highly vulnerable to diseases, dying
  • very shy, many saigas are running into fences and dying
  • short lifespan between 6 to 10 years and many of them are dying before reaching this age
  • just dying

In shortcut it is dying a lot.
 
Saiga isnt just sustainable:
  • it breed like crazy with 2/3 borns being twins, but a lot of them dying and many males also are dying shortly after mating for some reason.
  • highly vulnerable to diseases, dying
  • very shy, many saigas are running into fences and dying
  • short lifespan between 6 to 10 years and many of them are dying before reaching this age
  • just dying

In shortcut it is dying a lot.
That's so disappointing. But, let's not forget that animal husbandry has improved over the years, and many animals that were difficult to keep in the past are easier to keep now. So, as König stated, it's possible that they may be more common in zoos in the future
 
What since when?
Afaik the North American population was monopolized by a single company. I don’t know what exactly the company did but apparently they were uncooperative and gave zoos that kept them a tough time. This is why the zoo owned by this company is the last place in NA is currently where giant eland are kept and they can’t even breed anymore since the herd is bachelorette herd. Otherwise the giant eland weren’t much hard to keep.
 
I’ve also read that due to saigas’ unique respiratory structure, they’re difficult to keep outside of very specific climate types. Not sure if that’s actually a part of the equation, but it sure sounds plausible at least. It’s a similar explanation to why pronghorn struggle outside of their native range.
 
Discussion #7: Antelopes*, Viverroids**, Turtles, crocodilians

What we have:

Antelopes:
  1. Black wildebeest
  2. Bongo
  3. Gemsbok
  4. Nyala
  5. Sable antelope
  6. Springbok
  7. Thomson's gazelle
  8. NIle lechwe
  9. Scimitar horned oryx
  10. Blue Wildebeest

Viverroids (Malgasy carnivores, genets, civets...)
  • Binturong

Turtles
  • Aldabra giant tortoise
  • Diamondback terrapin
  • Galapagos giant tortoise
Crocodilians
  • Americsn Alligator
  • Cuvier's dwarf caiman
  • Gharial
  • Saltwater crocodile
  • Spectacled caiman

Explain what you think is still needed from the aforementioned groups, and give your reasoning as to why. Take into account that slots in the roster are not unlimited, so try to keep the discussion realistic.

*Bovines and caprines not inckuded as they will get their own discussion
**Viverroids include hyenas and mongooses as well, but they already got their own discussions
OK so, ANTELOPES. Unpopular opinion i know, but i think we still need a bunch of antelopes. First in my list of priorities is the blackbuck, not only because is my favorite antelope but also because it adds to the rep of India, it will be our only asian antelope and visually distinctive from other antelopes in the game (plus is so pretty and it was in the original ZT roster). On the other hand we are still missing a couple of high profile african antelopes such as the greater kudu, the impala, giant eland and addax, all of them i think would be extremely useful to get more variety in savannah themed habitats, and they are also aesthetically very different from one another. The kudu is kind of similar to the nyala and the imapala is the classic generic antelope but they are both pretty iconic.

Then we have the group that i like to call "unique antelopes" which are all very particular in their morphology and behaviours in which i include: saiga, nilgai, gerenuk and topi/hartebeest. I think any of them would add a lot for the game in terms of variety. Also the saiga is a good addition for cold desert fauna although i don't think they are any common in captivity. Nilgai again would add rep to India and it has a very particular look but i honestly prefer the blackbuck over this one. Gerenuk also adds to the ZT2 nostalgia and would be cool to see that feeding animation.

And lastly we have the "small antelopes" bunch of which i think the only one that i think is necessary is the dik-dik, but chevrotains would be interesting choices as well. Among this group i would include the duikers in general, and i think we need at least one, since i think they are pretty common in captivity for what i've gathered from European zoos.

As for gazelles i'm good with what we have but something that looks different from the two we already have would be cool such as the Dama or Sommerrings

So yeah, plenty of good options.

(totally not biased opinion from someone who loves antelopes lol)

Viverridois

From this group i would like the african civet and the owston's palm civet are the only ones i would like to see but i don't think any of them are necessary.

Turtles

The arrau river turtle, mata mata and alligator snapping turtle i think are the three freshwater turtles that are pretty unique in looks and behaviours and would add a lot to the game roster.

The green sea turtle is the only marine turtle i think is a realistic option to expect and its worldwide distribution makes for a good candidate as the first trully oceanic animal.

As for tortoises i think the african spurred tortoise is popular choice, but i would love the red footed tortoise and the radiated tortoise as well.

Crocodilians

We need an african crocodile. I want the nile crocodile because i really feel is too iconic and common in captivity and has a big cultural impact and wide distribution among Africa to end the game suport without it. After this one i don't need more crocs, but i will not complain if we get the chinese alligator or cuban crocodile (both endangered)
 
OK so, ANTELOPES. Unpopular opinion i know, but i think we still need a bunch of antelopes. First in my list of priorities is the blackbuck, not only because is my favorite antelope but also because it adds to the rep of India, it will be our only asian antelope and visually distinctive from other antelopes in the game (plus is so pretty and it was in the original ZT roster). On the other hand we are still missing a couple of high profile african antelopes such as the greater kudu, the impala, giant eland and addax, all of them i think would be extremely useful to get more variety in savannah themed habitats, and they are also aesthetically very different from one another. The kudu is kind of similar to the nyala and the imapala is the classic generic antelope but they are both pretty iconic.

Then we have the group that i like to call "unique antelopes" which are all very particular in their morphology and behaviours in which i include: saiga, nilgai, gerenuk and topi/hartebeest. I think any of them would add a lot for the game in terms of variety. Also the saiga is a good addition for cold desert fauna although i don't think they are any common in captivity. Nilgai again would add rep to India and it has a very particular look but i honestly prefer the blackbuck over this one. Gerenuk also adds to the ZT2 nostalgia and would be cool to see that feeding animation.

And lastly we have the "small antelopes" bunch of which i think the only one that i think is necessary is the dik-dik, but chevrotains would be interesting choices as well. Among this group i would include the duikers in general, and i think we need at least one, since i think they are pretty common in captivity for what i've gathered from European zoos.

As for gazelles i'm good with what we have but something that looks different from the two we already have would be cool such as the Dama or Sommerrings

So yeah, plenty of good options.

(totally not biased opinion from someone who loves antelopes lol)

Viverridois

From this group i would like the african civet and the owston's palm civet are the only ones i would like to see but i don't think any of them are necessary.

Turtles

The arrau river turtle, mata mata and alligator snapping turtle i think are the three freshwater turtles that are pretty unique in looks and behaviours and would add a lot to the game roster.

The green sea turtle is the only marine turtle i think is a realistic option to expect and its worldwide distribution makes for a good candidate as the first trully oceanic animal.

As for tortoises i think the african spurred tortoise is popular choice, but i would love the red footed tortoise and the radiated tortoise as well.

Crocodilians

We need an african crocodile. I want the nile crocodile because i really feel is too iconic and common in captivity and has a big cultural impact and wide distribution among Africa to end the game suport without it. After this one i don't need more crocs, but i will not complain if we get the chinese alligator or cuban crocodile (both endangered)
Your antelope list is even longer than mine, lol. 👍
 
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