News ANNOUNCING ELITE DANGEROUS: HORIZONS

[Toumal]

I'm kinda wary of the USS thing as well. I don't like USSes in space and I hope they can at least work on the variety and presentation aspects in a way that makes them more interesting. Loot might well be something worth considering, and judging from the fact that they said they'd do that soon after Horizon is released, I'd say FD is thinking the same thing I am.

Overall however, I'm really glad Horizons is coming. I still hope we'll see capital ships actually move through space, persistent NPCs and all that stuff as well, and not in a too distant future.

 

[Kramster]

The thing is, doing this would be a good thing, not a bad thing. That's with the exception of the mini supercruise mechanic, since they've said it will be seamless and there's really no need for them to do it via such a mechanic. The reason I say they should re-use existing mechanics is because it frees up their time for working on the aspects of PL that actually are different, such as the terrain (which you didn't include above) and for any other layers that they want to add. There's no point reinventing the wheel and I fully expect the landing pads at bases to descend into the planet in similar fashion to the pre-existing landing pads descending into the station real estate. I agree with your general sentiment that more new functionality needs adding though. I'd like to see more variety in random encounters for one thing, eg salvaging - which is possibly the looting they mentioned.

Thing is though, if a great deal of this is reused 'tweaked' mechanics and procedural terrain generation is easy-ish (many very small indie early access teams can do it with little problem) what you are left with may not be actually deserving the statement 'almost a full new game' and therefore maybe isn't worth a full box price.

New ships, new base types, new vehicles and a ground 'flight' model are not going to add a tremendous amount of the deep engaging gameplay ED needs. At least that is how it feels to me.

Well aren't you a font of trivia? It could also be that medieval homeless bums were actually aficionados of fruity perfumes.

I also hear they knew a thing about dressing up people as witches

 

[Ryder35]

Yeah well, I was an unhappy poster coz I felt there wasn't enough content, I didn't enjoy the direction the game seemed to be going, and I felt it hadn't lived up to it's promises. Now at least I can see that it SEEMS to be going in what I consider the correct direction so I'm happy to be a more positive poster for the duration. I still think the core game is lacking and promises are unfulfilled, but I'm feeling more patient now.

[edit] my several months of unhappy posting (and I assume many others) could have been avoided by better communication skills on FD's part.

Your edit hits the nail on the head. Think of the amount of people stating that FD are asking them to buy the expansion now without knowing what is in it to get the reduced price. It now transpires that the discount (and the Cobra) will be active until after Horizons goes live!

 

[AnnuverScotinExile]

Did they say it was going to be the same price as the full game??

I certainly expected expansions to cost that much, yes. FD had said that to do landings properly was as much effort as a full game which certainly implied full price, even if they did not explicitly say so.

What they did not say was that you would have to pay at least twice the cost of a full game. We don't have the details yet, but I do not expect season 3 to complete landings, and would not be surprised if it took until season 5. By changing from expansion = a big feature (so big in some cases that it would take multiple drops), to expansion = a collection of updates over a year, and then spreading a feature over multiple years, they cranked up the cost of landings to much, much more than a full game. This is where I say they have been naughty and far from open (despite what the white knights say). Essentially, if you want 'full expansions' then you must buy the lifetime pass, otherwise it will cost much more. Unless you are prepared to wait 2 or 3 years.

 

[Jason S]

I certainly expected expansions to cost that much, yes. FD had said that to do landings properly was as much effort as a full game which certainly implied full price, even if they did not explicitly say so.

What they did not say was that you would have to pay at least twice the cost of a full game. We don't have the details yet, but I do not expect season 3 to complete landings, and would not be surprised if it took until season 5. By changing from expansion = a big feature (so big in some cases that it would take multiple drops), to expansion = a collection of updates over a year, and then spreading a feature over multiple years, they cranked up the cost of landings to much, much more than a full game. This is where I say they have been naughty and far from open (despite what the white knights say). Essentially, if you want 'full expansions' then you must buy the lifetime pass, otherwise it will cost much more. Unless you are prepared to wait 2 or 3 years.

They could release planetary landings planet by planet or at least separate sets for alliance/imperial/federation by the time we get to the most human populated most important earth like planets which need more intense input to the procedural magic to make them different enough. Do we really want settlements on imperial planets looking like settlements on federation or alliance planets, maybe not, maybe they should be done as separate expansions ?

They could do Thargoid planet(s) landings one day for those brave enough. This could be a lifetime (10 years?) of expansions just for planets...

I do not know if it that would happen, and probably unlikely, but at least it would end in awesomeness, expensive awesomeness, but awesomeness nevertheless.

 

[Winterwalker]

I think this is inaccurate ..

What they did not say was that you would have to pay at least twice the cost of a full game.

Yes, season one (we have now) is bundled software with the next season, so new players can join without buying a game that costs them a price, of season one (which they didn't play in) PLUS season two. Existing players are invited to join, one new season for the cost of one season (less discount).

Fairs fair, the spin you put on it implies something quite different?

 

[AnnuverScotinExile]

[edit] my several months of unhappy posting (and I assume many others) could have been avoided by better communication skills on FD's part.

My several months of unhappy posting would certainly have been lessened by better communication from FD. But not wholly avoided, I fear, unless they were to make long term directional statements that they have always avoided. The direction the game has been headed in for the last year or so appears to be quite different to the vision I was sold. And they are clearly still heading that way with 'crafting' just announced. So the fact that the game I thought I was buying will probably never appear is likely to keep me pretty unhappy with FD.

 

[CMDR MAIN SEQUENCE]

I'm kinda wary of the USS thing as well. I don't like USSes in space and I hope they can at least work on the variety and presentation aspects in a way that makes them more interesting.

I don't have a problem with the USS concept, I just wish it wasn't so obvious that the 'instance' is being created as you drop out of Supercruise. I hope FD make this more seamless when on a planet - if it works the same way as now it will be immersion-breaking.

 

[Winterwalker]

The direction the game has been headed in for the last year or so appears to be quite different to the vision I was sold.

How? elite: dangerous exists NOW, in all forms the way it was sold (except arguably planetary landings which were always known to be coming as a paid expansion). There are other sub-games (PP , CQC) that are also included (bonus!) but these don't constitute "the direction" of the game, only parts of it's overall content that you may (or may not) choose to participate in.

 

[AnnuverScotinExile]

I think this is inaccurate ..



Yes, season one (we have now) is bundled software with the next season, so new players can join without buying a game that costs them a price, of season one (which they didn't play in) PLUS season two. Existing players are invited to join, one new season for the cost of one season (less discount).

Fairs fair, the spin you put on it implies something quite different?

The only person spinning here is you. I was just quoting plain facts. Season 2 is going to include the first phase of landings and then other stuff. They have not said what other stuff, or whether any of that other stuff is going to be landings focused. The only other feature they have named is loot & crafting which certainly should not be limited to landings.

They have said that landings will not be complete in season 2. So, at best (and I do not think this is likely but I could be wrong), you will have to buy season 2 and then season 3 to get all of landings when released. Based on the season 2 cost, that would be double the game price. And that is the best case for existing players.

 

[Winterwalker]

They have said that landings will not be complete in season 2. So, at best (and I do not think this is likely but I could be wrong), you will have to buy season 2 and then season 3 to get all of landings when released. Based on the season 2 cost, that would be double the game price. And that is the best case for existing players.

So the planetary landing expansion is coming in two parts, but this is not to say that anyone is buying the whole game twice.

 

[AnnuverScotinExile]

How? elite: dangerous exists NOW, in all forms the way it was sold (except arguably planetary landings which were always known to be coming as a paid expansion). There are other sub-games (PP , CQC) that are also included (bonus!) but these don't constitute "the direction" of the game, only parts of it's overall content that you may (or may not) choose to participate in.

I would have thought that anyone active on these forum would, by now, accept that there are lots of people who feel that FD have shifted audience, and have not completed the game they originally sold. Clearly you do not agree. That's fine, and I am happy for you (if not for me). But if I start to list all the stuff I am unhappy with, this thread will go the way of many others with two opposed camps shouting at each other. Put another way, I cannot understand anyone who thinks they have got the game they were sold, if they bought when I did (in the kick starter).

- - - Updated - - -

So the planetary landing expansion is coming in two parts, but this is not to say that anyone is buying the whole game twice.

I fail to see what that straw man has got to do with the conversation. Certainly I did not say it. If the wording of the horizons expansion (which has got some on here agitated because it says they are buying another copy of the base game) is continued, then by season 3 you will have bought the base game 3 times, and paid 3 times the game price. But so what?

 

[CMDR CPT. Boris]

Finale season of Elite, landing on stars, GAME OVER \o/

 

[vulkman]

Finale season of Elite, landing on stars, GAME OVER \o/

Elite Dangerous: Event Horizons™

 

[vulkman]

I cannot understand anyone who thinks they have got the game they were sold, if they bought when I did (in the kick starter).

I backed the Kickstarter and I got pretty much exactly what I expected. Some niceties from FE2 are missing, but stuff like PP, which I enjoy very much, weren't even in the original concept. So what EXACTLY were you promised in the Kickstarter that you didn't get?

Oh, and to make that clear: Stuff people fantasized about in the design forum doesn't count for me, as FD has never promised to do exactly what people tell them to, only to listen to them.

So far the only thing they explicitly promised and did not deliver on was the ability to name your ship. Everything else is in my opinion just a discrepancy between what you wished for and what you should have expected, based on the previous games and the ideas laid out during the Kickstarter.

 

[Arubeto]

Oh, and to make that clear: Stuff people fantasized about in the design forum doesn't count for me, as FD has never promised to do exactly what people tell them to, only to listen to them.

Even though it's sad to admit, because lots of stuff on the DDA/DDF sounded awesome, you are actually right.

 

[Winterwalker]

there are lots of people who feel that FD have shifted audience

Yes, I'm a kickstart backer and was lucky enough to experience, 84 elite and FE2 first hand. This is only to say that I started with quite a clear idea of what was being sold. Early backers generally come from an older demographic than the mainstream audience, of a game released 30 years later obviously. But the fact that there are bonus features we didn't expect, even if some of those features might not appeal to any individual, doesn't affect the basic fact, that you can play all that original elite was already, now. What we did "when the vision was sold" was encourage the development of a new elite (dangerous). We knew then there would be group play (never in the original elite) and I think fair to say it was reasonably obvious, ED would be competing with other modern games. I'm afraid I didn't back it to see my money wasted, on a game designed to cater for a market that existed 30 years ago, but to introduce a new generation to the concepts of trade, exploration and self defence in a Cobra. These were (for me) interests that I took in the original games, and are features still supported in the new.

-- updated --

Even though it's sad to admit, because lots of stuff on the DDA/DDF sounded awesome, you are actually right.

I think wait and see on a lot of that (good) stuff. With (some) experience in programming, what I see is a game architecture being made ready for loads and loads (and loads!) of "nice things" to drop in later. What I see .. and I think it is .. is a "modular" design approach being taken.

 

[AnnuverScotinExile]

Even though it's sad to admit, because lots of stuff on the DDA/DDF sounded awesome, you are actually right.

... In a wrong sort of way. What people fantasised about is irrelevant, because all that matters are the game designs that FD published. The DDF did not ever 'tell them to do things'. All the DDF did was provide feedback on the proposals FD made. In some cases, that feedback led to FD changing their mind, but nothing the DDF said was binding (which is just as well as we rarely reached a concensus). It was always FD's game, and only FD's game.

Yes, at no stage did FD say they were going to do any of that stuff. But having been involved in the DDF, it is clear that those designs were their intent at the time, even if it would take a very long time to deliver them, and some things would never appear. They would not have put so much effort into some things just to meet a kick starter promise, and where they have implemented details, those details do follow the DDA pretty closely. The problem at the moment is not what they have done from the DDF, but all the stuff they have not done, and the fact that they are showing no signs of doing them, and that they are doing stuff (power play, CQC, crafting, etc.) that they never waved at the DDF, and which in some cases are things they explicitly ruled out.

 

[AnnuverScotinExile]

I think wait and see on a lot of that (good) stuff. With (some) experience in programming, what I see is a game architecture being made ready for loads and loads (and loads!) of "nice things" to drop in later. What I see .. and I think it is .. is a "modular" design approach being taken.

Whilst you may notice me being critical of FD from time to time, I have to admit that their approach of getting the infrastructure right first, and only then add the game on top was right.

Of course, we can argue that they failed to get the infrastructure right, especially the networking model, and many will argue that the game they layered on top is a very basic, not to say placeholder one. Certainly exploration, which is what I bought the game to concentrate on, struggles to rise up to the level of placeholder.

 

[Winterwalker]

all the stuff they have not done, and the fact that they are showing no signs of doing them

I am sorry but I must insitst, the game is being designed "future proof" (there are coded "coathangers" in the game, that stuff CAN go in) ~ AND ~ ED needs to show the spectrum of environments, because it is *already* competing in the games market.