Another ganked story. PVP off option in open play please

I'm interested.

Basically, you're gonna use your mouse, to control a virtual controller with 2 joysticks (read, an XBox controller)
Thats what technically happens under the hood. Functionally... oh man... I never want to fly without it.
And the good thing is since it is game independent, once setup, you can use it in any game.

But reply in that thread, not in this one.
 
You may say this but the fact is that most squadrons see menulogging the same way as combatlogging. New players who read you comment thinking "ohh its a moderator he must be right. next time i will just menulog" and with that they have lost the possibility to join most squads that have rules against it.

Also you need to consider that 15 seconds can be a long time to log out. If you dont have a properly build ship you will still die. As an example i will add a twitchclip where the 15 seconds where to long for someone

https://www.twitch.tv/barnardo7_/clip/FairTriangularReubenStinkyCheese
Since I'm never going to be a member of a squadron which thinks that, I'm not too bothered.

Menu-log is always a valid game exit.
 
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It just doesn't work that way, I tried it. Blocking just reduces the probability you face those guys. I will provide the same example with the current CG - I saw a lot of blocked gankers in AXCZ in HIP 22460

Last time I tested it, blocking was so strong it could fragment wings...it overrode every positive instance weight I tried.

It's possible they reduced the block weight so that events that rely on functional matchmaking (like AX CZs) can actually work.

Considering how easy it is for the PF to permit-lock systems, you'd think that would be part of C&P. The idea being that if a player illegally kills enough other players (tie the exact number to security state) in a system, they are permit-locked out of that system until their notoriety cools off. This would remove pressure from all the ganking hotspots at least, while still allowing piracy and even some ganking.

If US / EU can prevent Russian oligarchs from traveling in friendly spaces, why can't the PF do the same with gankers?

Since were talking about plausible C&P, I'd want the underlying mechanisms leveraged by it to be plausible as well. The permit lock system, as it is, requires multiple levels of absurd contrivances, not the least of which are the facts that a system doesn't exist unless one reaches it via hyperspace jump and that crime reporting is omniscient, instantaneous, and infallible.

A scanctioned oligarch can still travel. They have difficulty using legitimate channels, accessing all of their resources, or doing so on yachts and jets that have been impounded, but the destinations still exist, they still have considerable liquid assets, and most borders are still completely porous. If one can keep a low profile, their freedom is relatively unrestricted. Of course, keeping a low profile defeats much of the purpose, and few are going to risk being imprisoned to travel to destinations they can't fully enjoy, but they absolutely could.

Permit revocations, asset seizure, and the like could be prime tools for targeting criminals, but the gameplay surrounding such things is currently non-existent and adding or fleshing out the mechanisms they would depend on is probably not going to happen. Just using the current system, as is, would not improve the game, IMO.

As a side note, I don't see C&P as a means to mitigate unambiguous player on player harassment. Those harassing other players should permanently and categorically have their access to the game removed. C&P mechanisms should be purely in-character things for fleshing out a credible setting.

A highly questionable statement. Any prove?

It is not very nice to openly promote such things here so that newer players could think "He must be an experienced player, he is right". That is far more dangerous then backing up a statement by FDev themselfes about the legitimaty of menu-log.

It's an anecdote that's very difficult to quantify, but expresses a view I've found to be nearly omnipresent for any group accepting of PvP or promoting any sort of organic role-playing.

If it's not something the CMDR, as a character within the fantasy Elite setting, would have access to, it's context defying, and blatant context defiance is the antithesis of an immersive experience. Using out-of-character player tools to overtly influence the outcome of in-game CMDR experiences is something that doesn't sit well with quite a few people.

It's not an issue of what Frontier is willing to prohibit; if Frontier was even targeting similar doctrines (the "game that doesn't seem like a game" stuff that sold me on ED during the kickstarter beta was dead and buried by 2016), there would be far less need for house rules.
 
If we could just turn off PVP in open play we wouldn't have to split the community into solo's or private groups. The ganker would see us and not be able to feed his toxic behavior and basically kick rocks. If I wanted to PVP, I would just flip the button on with an added cooldown. A simple solution that even other games use so why not here?
For make this to happen will be needed to create a difference between NPCs and players ship on very fundamental levels. To make above mentioned working "perfectly" would mean not only make difference between weapons damage, but also between physical damage done by ramming for example. Outcome of this = such change will never happen, PvE mode will be not in this game ... even if it would be technically possible (I doubt it), it will make tons of other problems and mainly will not stop ganger from doing his fun (some of examples how ganger can achieve kills without "personally" scratching his target were posted in this thread already, they always will find a way if can in any way operate in sight of theirs target). Fdev already gave enough possibilities (and fully functional ones, in form of already existing game modes) how player can dealt with hostility of other commanders.
 
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It's an anecdote that's very difficult to quantify, but expresses a view I've found to be nearly omnipresent for any group accepting of PvP or promoting any sort of organic role-playing.

My experience too. Many people take issue with their opponent suddenly vaporising into a higher dimension. I understand the sentiment, but hold a more relaxed view myself - could be a kid on the other end or an emergency, idk. Since there is nothing to gain from a dead CMDR… also, there isn’t any harm done to the party that nearly killed their opponent. And they have won. Whether it’s a log or shards of wrecked metal is immaterial. Now, if there were stuff to be had from a dead CMDR’s wreck, and combat/menu log broke that… then I would likely reconsider my position.

Speaking of stuff: I wonder if compensation for every combat log would make immersive experiences more streamlined. Good old random data of the ship leaving the matrix, from the Pilot’s Federation to the one in need.
 
My experience too. Many people take issue with their opponent suddenly vaporising into a higher dimension. I understand the sentiment, but hold a more relaxed view myself - could be a kid on the other end or an emergency, idk. Since there is nothing to gain from a dead CMDR… also, there isn’t any harm done to the party that nearly killed their opponent. And they have won. Whether it’s a log or shards of wrecked metal is immaterial. Now, if there were stuff to be had from a dead CMDR’s wreck, and combat/menu log broke that… then I would likely reconsider my position.

Speaking of stuff: I wonder if compensation for every combat log would make immersive experiences more streamlined. Good old random data of the ship leaving the matrix, from the Pilot’s Federation to the one in need.
I've always liked the slightly mischevious suggestion that when someone disconnects in any way, other players should see their ship explode. Hey presto: no more complaints about combat logging, complete freedom from ganking, everyone feeling like they won. :)
 
Since there is nothing to gain from a dead CMDR… also, there isn’t any harm done to the party that nearly killed their opponent. And they have won. Whether it’s a log or shards of wrecked metal is immaterial.

I'm of the view that there can be no meaningful victory without a commensurate loss inflicted upon the opposing force. The whole point of violence is to deter undesireable behavior or inflict sufficient material losses that it becomes impractical to continue hostilities. Some forms of violence can be entertaining for their own sake, but I predominantly view it as a tool.

The steady erosion of consequence mechanisms has undermined much of the utility of violence in this game (there are no meaningful defeat conditions for my CMDR, much to my dismay), which has resulted in people being more willing to have their CMDRs act in annoyingly reckless ways, undermining what deterrent value there was, and reducing the amount of downtime repeat losses could result in. Still, the fact that at least some portion of people continue to complain about being cost time or CMDR assets implies that meaningful losses can still be inflicted, in at least some cases, and that it may be worthwhile to try to inflict these losses.

Back in the day, if I shot someone down five times in a row, they had to sod off and leave my CMDR alone, or risk running out of funds. Likewise, I had my CMDR avoid getting himself shot down (via means I considered legitimate in-character gameplay) religiously, to the point I didn't cross into double-digit insurance claims until I had several thousand hours in the game and had shot down hundreds of CMDRs in self-defense or retaliatory strikes. Now, I just don't care, because doing nothing still results in money falling on my CMDR faster than he can reasonably spend it. Still don't get shot down much, because escape is only a high-wake away and defensive inflation is absurd, but even if I did, it wouldn't matter...there are hundreds of rebuys in the bank and nothing else to spend it on. This general apathy has even extended into my piloting, which I used to be reasonably proud of, because it barely matters. I'm rusty as hell, still can't get shot down unless I do something idiotic, and wouldn't lose anything meaningful even if I did. The incentive to maintain or improve skills is gone without being able to lose something.

I've always liked the slightly mischevious suggestion that when someone disconnects in any way, other players should see their ship explode. Hey presto: no more complaints about combat logging, complete freedom from ganking, everyone feeling like they won. :)

It would quickly become apparent that the explosions were illusions, and that no assets were being subtracted, so anyone with a utilitarian view of violence, either as the defender or aggressor, would be even more dissatisfied.
 
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Oh, no, I've absolutely done the pirating myself too - and been frustrated by someone in a fer-de-lance tailing me at a distance and boosting to overtake me as soon as they realise I've spotted my target, ganking them before I could pirate them. That's not the point of my post.

My point is that even if a pvp flag existed that meant that players would be able to see each other but not directly act upon each other, there are still plenty of indirect methods available to frustrate people and you wouldn't even be able to shoot them for doing it.

If you don't want to deal with other players and the nonsense they bring, solo mode is the way to go.
Ah - not all people live to pvp or gank - that is the usual draw of mmos. Coop PVE with randos is a ton of fun, and that is the experience many players in Open seek to have.

I agree that there is always a way to troll other players in pve or pvp environments. I've done it myself - ramming players in a res zone that are stealing my kills. In mmos it can be loot stealing, node camping, kill stealing etc.

Pretty sure that direct asymmetric - out of context ganking is the most annoying negative player interaction the bulk of frustrated players post about.

Nothing can really be done about it at this point. FDEV definitely is in survival / maintenance mode with ED.
 
By and large, it's novice/casual players that have a problem with plausible C&P, because plausible C&P would treat NPCs like people rather than fodder.
And as we learned from the current C&P system and all the mess of notoriety and "hot ships" and everything else, even the current C&P system is far more intrusive and debilitating to a normally-lawful CMDR that happens to occasionally fall foul of the law than it is to an active deliberate criminal who's taken steps to mitigate the effect of being wanted. A "plausible" one would be downright horrendous.

The number of times I've seen people say that murderers should have their permit revoked from the system forever and forget how easy it'd be for a griefer to just pull the ol' suicidewinder or deliberately fly into their path in a res site or something to get them wanted...
 
As a side note, I don't see C&P as a means to mitigate unambiguous player on player harassment. Those harassing other players should permanently and categorically have their access to the game removed. C&P mechanisms should be purely in-character things for fleshing out a credible setting.
One of the things that I stand by when adminning other games is not to use IC means to punish OOC misbehaviour.
That said, one of the things we do try to take care to do is to avoid creating "ban-traps", ie. game mechanics/loops which encourage players to do things that lead to them getting banned.
and that crime reporting is omniscient, instantaneous, and infallible.
this is my biggest immersion-breaker for criminal gameplay. Especially in odyssey, where I can shock someone silently in a locked room, get instantly and immediately dinged with a murder bounty, and the guard standing outside the room is none the wiser unless he scans me. Meanwhile in space, haz-res sites, CNBs and mission signal sources will warn you that the system link is unavailable and the authority response is blocked - and yet you can still report (and be reported for) crimes, it's just that the cops won't show up to the distress signal because of... reasons?
 
A highly questionable statement. Any prove?
I'm Deputy Cmdr of a squad that dabbles in PvP - and menu logging would be a BIG no-no for any member.

I don't suppose it matters, at all, outside of PvP - but logging off in the middle of a fight (with no explanation) would be a bit of a kick in the teeth.
Perhaps even worse - if a member of your squad does it to other squadrons, your whole squad could get a negative reputation.
 
I'm Deputy Cmdr of a squad that dabbles in PvP - and menu logging would be a BIG no-no for any member.

I don't suppose it matters, at all, outside of PvP - but logging off in the middle of a fight (with no explanation) would be a bit of a kick in the teeth.
Perhaps even worse - if a member of your squad does it to other squadrons, your whole squad could get a negative reputation.
I am sorry but that is no prove that "most of the squadrons see menu-logging the same way as combat-logging". There are 1950 Squads on INARA (surely some squads are not present there, so must be more overall). So what do you think how many of them mentioned in their squad description that they do not tolerate menu-logging? Wanna count? Less then 100. Thats not "most of the squadrons". Very nice that you are a deputy squad cmdr, i am a acting squad cmdr. And i couldn't care less if my squad members menu-logg or not. They have to fullfill a task. Nothing else matters. "Honor" is the stupidest thing in a "cutthroat galaxy" were every third cmdr acts like a maniac, and even the in-game characters like Hudson, Delaine and the others are liers, manipulators and jerks. Unbelieveable.
 
"Players take control of their own starship and can fight, explore and travel throughout an expansive cutthroat galaxy. With 400 Billion star systems and an ever-evolving narrative, players can choose to play alone or take part in a remarkable multiplayer experience."

It's cutthroat out there I tell you!
 
Again why is menu logging a no- no ?
It's like combat logging why is that a no-no ( apart from fdev saying so ).
What does it mean to the PvPer?
Have they lost anything ?
Have their feelings been hurt ?
Has the immersion been broken ?
Has the kill been stolen ?
No a log is still a kill but to that PvPer they "have " to get that kill because ...... ???
Why is the actual kill so important ?
I don't get it really ?
Now whilst combat logging is illegal by Fdev standards we can't do that .
Menu logging by that same standard is ok .
 
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