Blaming WW2 on the Left? Wow ... just wow.
General / Off-Topic Another van attack
- Thread starter Robin of Spiritwood
- Start date
Blaming WW2 on the Left? Wow ... just wow.
Javert
Volunteer Moderator
It's exactly the math that he was talking about. The point was that a much higher proportion of UK government spending is on state and public service pensions, than it is on unemployment benefits and housing benefits and suchlike.
Therefore, there are legitimate questions to be asked in this area such as:
- Is it right that pensioners who already have gold plated private or public service pensions, should in future also receive the full basic state pension, plus all the other non means tested benefits like winter fuel allowances?
- Is it right that pay for public service workers, and benefits for those in poverty, are frozen or cut, whilst the state pension is protected by a triple lock which ensures that it exceeds inflation most of the time?
- Is it right that young people, even the vast majority of them who are working just as hard as today's pensioners did, will end up much poorer when they retire in future years, because all the gold plated benefits that many (but not all) current pensioners received have been withdrawn (pulling up the ladder behind them)?
(- Is it right that pensioners, who voted for Brexit in the highest percentage, should be completely insulated from all negative effects, whilst younger people who wanted to remain have to pay the price?) in brackets as getting off topic now.
The cost of unemployment benefits is miniscule compared to the cost of pensions, healthcare, and other similar items. You could take away all the benefits and throw them out on the street, and it still wouldn't really address the issue of the deficit - it would make a very small difference. This is the reason why the focus on bashing the unemployed doesn't really solve the deficit problem - it's just tinkering at the edges and avoiding the difficult parts. That was, ironically, the math that he was trying to point out.
Political correctness gone mad!
erm nope that is NOT what I said AT ALL.
How did Hitler get power? The German people were crushed by punitive punishments for WW1, and Hitler used Jews as a scapegoat. I realise it's far more complex than that but I see correlations between that situation and the situation in the UK (and probably MANY western countries) where indigenous are treated like crap and the far right are using immigrants as scapegoats. WW3 is inevitable IMO.
I disagree, those elderly have PAID in. You get what you PAY for. The problem is when people get things WITHOUT paying, or those who take out more than they put in (also include the elderly I'll conceed). That's a financial black hole. But what's the choice? Logans Run? Kill everyone over 60, 50, 40, the disabled?
Now I'm talking about OAPs like my parents and my wife's parents, you seem to be talking about the rich OAPs. Yes of course it should be means tested (as should MANY aspects of Benefits including child benefits).
Disablility benefits cost is also miniscule, didn't stop Labour then the Tories crapping on the disabled leading to many thousands of deaths which the left wing hand wringers never gave a crap about.
Bottom line is the RICH are the problem and should be heavily taxed, tax evasion should have extreme judicial punishments and I can guarantee 99% of all the left wing TV/Music/Film luvvies are tax avoiding tossers living in gated communities to keep the riff raff out.
Ah I should stop as I'm depressed to hell.
Which immigrants did prosper in 1933s Germany again?
Since when is the Local Populace treated like crap ?
I know not a Single Country where Immigrants are treated better than the locals.
Even Germany. Which is taking in Immigrants on large Scale. Is still investing much more into its Local Population than it is into Immigrants.
I think he talks about the Jews.
Interestingly many People think the Jews in Germany before WW2 were Immigrants.
Its a bit of an common misunderstanding because most people assume Jews are more of an Middle Eastern thing in the area of Israel.
Most People have no Idea that several German Cities were pretty much the Core Points of Jewish Religion in the Medieval times and thus had large Jewish Population which had been German for many Generations.
The Jews in Europe in the 1930s were law abiding Poles, Frenchmen and Germans etc, just like most Muslims in Europe now are law abiding Brits, Frenchmen and Germans, however the difference is huge, the religion of Judaism and Jewish culture was never a threat to Europe since the Jews have always assimilated, as they should, and it's a mark of shame on Europe for the way the Jews were and are treated. Islam however is understandably percieved as a threat to the west, because there is less successful integration, this is not racial, it's cultural and social failure on behalf of the governments (both conservative and liberal) and certain parts of the Islamic estblishment (and organised religion in general).
We need to avoid another persecution in Europe, and we also need to ensure that we put a stop to Islamic extremism, this is for the sake of all of us, Muslims, Atheists, Christians etc, no one wants or deserves the persecution that we are seeing, disgusting Anti semitism and Anti Muslim acts....we need government to treat everyone equally, both Muslim and Anti Muslim/far right terrorism needs to be treated as such, and we need to stop pandering to any of the religions, and move the country/countries towards secular humanism, or else be doomed to repeat the mistakes of Chamberlain, and/or allow for horrors not unlike those of Hitler and Stalin, which would shame the west forever.
We need to avoid another persecution in Europe, and we also need to ensure that we put a stop to Islamic extremism, this is for the sake of all of us, Muslims, Atheists, Christians etc, no one wants or deserves the persecution that we are seeing, disgusting Anti semitism and Anti Muslim acts....we need government to treat everyone equally, both Muslim and Anti Muslim/far right terrorism needs to be treated as such, and we need to stop pandering to any of the religions, and move the country/countries towards secular humanism, or else be doomed to repeat the mistakes of Chamberlain, and/or allow for horrors not unlike those of Hitler and Stalin, which would shame the west forever.
Last edited:
The disability benefits bill is vastly more than the unemployment benefits bill, which is in turn vastly vastly vastly larger than the bill for immigrant benefits.
The left wing RICH like Rupert Murdoch? Or maybe...
Those rich unemployed people?
This is a very confused series of posts indeed.Yes, do the math.
http://www.politics.co.uk/comment-a...-hospital-beds-how-immigration-hysteria-broke
0.38% of the NHS budget. Considering the fact that so many frontline heathcare workers (doctors, nurses, consultants) are immigrants themselves then blaming immigrants for a crisis in the NHS is bizarre.
The Forum is Lagging alot today....
And Sorry but thats Rubbish.
The Jews got and have up to this day. Several more Radical Arms. Which completely Refused to Integrate.
Told you before. This is not related to Religion.
Fun Fact. Jews in Germany before WW2 actually felt save and many even Voted Hitler. Because they tought that Hitler when he was doing Hate Speeches about the Jewish. Was talking about these Radical and Ultra Conservative Jews which talked in Hebrew and pretty much lived by their own laws etc etc.
Oh little did they know that Hitler would not make any such differences when he started to Genocide them...
You will always.
For any sort of Group.
Be it Religion, Ideology, A Soccer Club or a Country in itself.
Have Radicals which will demand Violence and which will go by the Idea that their Ideology, Group whatever should Rule all others.
Its Impossible to prevent this.
Because even Democracy and Freedom are actually Ideologies and have many Fanatic and Radical Followers.
You need to get into your Head that Islam was somehow Special here.
Islam is an Ideology. And the People following it are not a Monolith.
Just like any other Group they got Radicals, Conversatives, Moderates and even Casuals.
And they got em just as much as Christianity or Democracy.
The only difference is. If some guy goes around Guns Blazing yelling about his Freedom and that nobody has the right to infringe on his Personal Freedom to do what he wants. We throw him into Prison and call him a Psychopath.
If the KuKluxKlan Burns People alive we dont mention that they are Fanatic Christians.
But if ISIS does we say oh they are Muslims.
He's just railing against Muslims yet again. He's managed, yet again, to to call Islamic terrorism a "threat to the west" while forgetting that Islamic terrorists kill fewer people than duvets. He's also, yet again, managed to display the cognitive dissonance required to call for an end to persecution while calling for de-facto persecution of a demographic he dislikes.
Actually i agree that radical Jewish and radical Christians have many terrorist groups that should be called out, i'm merely pointing out the obvious that Islam has the most extremism, because it's had the least reform, but my point was actually to say, we need to promote secular humanism, now you may disagree on my outlook but you can't argue with my motives....which is that we should all just get along under one secular law, as equals, no matter our skin colour or religion.
Now your just lying about me, in fact i have specifically condemmed the persucution of Muslims, i'm not aginst a demographic, i'm against an idea. (to clarify, i'm against the ideas expressed in the following death cult books: the Bible, Koran, Torah and mein kampf, all of which promote a cult of submission to a dear leader or doctrine).
Last edited:
Javert
Volunteer Moderator
I disagree, those elderly have PAID in. You get what you PAY for. The problem is when people get things WITHOUT paying, or those who take out more than they put in (also include the elderly I'll conceed). That's a financial black hole. But what's the choice? Logans Run? Kill everyone over 60, 50, 40, the disabled?
Now I'm talking about OAPs like my parents and my wife's parents, you seem to be talking about the rich OAPs. Yes of course it should be means tested (as should MANY aspects of Benefits including child benefits).
Disablility benefits cost is also miniscule, didn't stop Labour then the Tories crapping on the disabled leading to many thousands of deaths which the left wing hand wringers never gave a crap about.
Bottom line is the RICH are the problem and should be heavily taxed, tax evasion should have extreme judicial punishments and I can guarantee 99% of all the left wing TV/Music/Film luvvies are tax avoiding tossers living in gated communities to keep the riff raff out.
Ah I should stop as I'm depressed to hell.
So there's a few issues here.
First, you talk about saying that the problem is people taking stuff out who haven't paid anything in (you previously mentioned unemployed and immigrants).
You then go on to talk about disability benefits. Using your logic, some people with disabilities haven't paid anything int, therefore there is a problem with them taking out?
Someone who is unemployed may be unemployed not through their own fault - perhaps their skillsets and their job was rendered obsolete by technology and they need some time to adapt. There are very few people who are not working because they are trying to choose that as a lifestyle, and whilst I agree that it's not ideal for taxpayers to pay for such things, in the end the cost of that is miniscule compared to other things like pensions and so on.
Even that is a bit strange because each of these people is a human being. I used to know a guy who had never had a job, and didn't want one. He claimed unemployment benefits, but still lived with his parents. By the Daily Mail definition, he was a scrounger scum who should be put in a work party and forced to dig holes in the road or whatever. Thing is, this guy was also a really nice guy who did a lot of volunteer work in the community, spent a lot of time helping others out, visiting the elderly etc. In a way, he was actually doing the job that social services or the NHS ideally should be doing but for virtually no money. It's entirely possible that if he wasn't doing all that, all those other people he helped would have ended up costing the state even more than the cost of paying his measly unemployment benefit.
You then say the rich are the problem. The issue with this is that it is already the rich who pay by far the biggest portion of taxes. If you lined up 100 people in a row as representative of the UK population, about 40 of them are paying in nothing. The remaining 50 are paying standard rate income tax. Only the top 10% are paying 40% income tax. Also, the top 10% or so are paying almost half the total tax take, whilst the top 1% are paying I think just over 10% of the tax take (I'm going from memory from a program I heard the other day but the numbers are close to these).
Edit: There is also a practical problem which is twofold. If you massively increase the taxes of the very rich, it still doesn't make that much difference because there aren't many of them. Furthermore, these high income people are the exact people who are very well able to avoid this additional tax in various ways.
For example, let's say I earn £102k. Now the government introduces on me a 95% tax rate on all my income above £100k. (Labour did something like this back in the 1970s). First thing I'm going to do is take action to reduce my income below £100k - for example I can give £2k per year to charity. Now, you didn't only just lose the additional 55% of tax on that £2k, you also lost the 40% of tax that I was already paying, so your tax take actually just went down, the opposite of what you tried to achieve. Next, if you then prevent me too much from all those other options, I will simply leave the country, and now you just lost all the tax I was paying completely.
So you can see, it's already the top 10% who pay vastly for most of the tax in this country. Could they pay more? Possibly. I personally would be prepared to pay a bit more tax for better services. However saying the rich are "the problem" fails to recognise that they are actually the ones paying for all the others, not just the unemployed, but also all the low paid who actually take more out of the system than they put in (not their fault I know, but nevertheless it's you that's saying that you should only be able to take out what you put in.
Finally, your statement that these paople "paid in" so they have the right to take it out again is not the way the UK economy works. Like it or not, the tax money that is collected now this year from those working, is the money that's used to pay the government funded pensions of the retired. The so called "National Insurance" that people pay, is nothing more than an income tax in disguise. None of that money is ring fenced or put away in some special account for your retirement as it would be in a private pension.
Bottom line - if the economy completely tanked, government funded pensions would have to be cut, regardless whether you feel you have "paid in" or not.
Last edited:
ME Let me tell you NOW.... I AM being treated like crap in my own country. Afraid to speak my mind, called names, reduced to living FAR below the poverty line and have no real recourse for help, MADE to attend medicals that WILL me up further and NO -ONE GIVES A DAMN because I'm white. Don't you EVER EVER E V E R, think that the indiginous are not being treated like crap
I'm born in Germany, white, female and not treated like crap.
You alone as example isn't sufficient. Cite some statistics, some references that make clear that your state gives preferial treatment to immigrants and refugees, then we'll talk.
Oh for gawds sake, semantics, is that all the left can do is argue semantics...ohh he's done typos he's a "insert lefty insult here", oh he's got history a little bit wrong he's a "insert lefty insult here". My POINT is still valid, Hitler used the Jews as a scapegoat a reason to get more power.
All what is happening is the lefts fault, the rise of the right ESPECIALLY, you're all too stupid to realise it.
The "right" is your Jew, is your Commie, is your infidel...you are as BAD as what you hate. Get that in your heads before the world is mucked up.
I'm taking a break from these forums before I do something sodding stupid.
My parents, my wives parents, our grand parents, if you're poor in the UK you're smegged, no hand wringing Liberals give a damn, no Rich Tories give a damn, a forgotten statistic no one cares about and I LIVE IT so NEVER SAY IT DOESN'T HAPPEN.
I don't say that there are no poor, forgotten people in the UK. I say that this doesn't proof that your government gives prefering treatment to immigrants and foreigners.
You've just been ranting about "the left" and about people scrounging benefits. The left-wing are the ones who have fought against ATOS and the Work Capability Assessment. It is the demands of the Daily Mail and Daily Express that have led to Work Capability Assessment coming into being. You're blaming the wrong people.
I am also a white native English male who has a mental health problem that causes me difficulty from time to time, and I have also claimed benefits before I became a trophy husband to an incredibly understanding, talented, successful, and hot wife. It's not applied because you're white, it's applied because you're claiming benefits.
Some context for you. Here in the UK welfare reform has been on the agenda for the past 7 years, since Cameron got into power. And by "reform" I mean "slash and burn". It's been brutal. We're talking thousands of people being kicked off sickness related benefits after being declared "fit for work" and dying weeks later, and people who have had all support and assistance removed for six months because they were late for an interview.
Here are some statistics on the matter:
http://archive.is/j0nAF
The UK government quickly removed that from the web after it was published, but fortunately it was saved. Cutting to the nub, the welfare reform program could have resulted in the early deaths of over 80,000 UK citizens.
The problem for Lepers argument is that immigrants have apparently been treated even worse. Several have apparently perished in the Grenfeld fire but their friends/relatives won't come forward because the government is threatening to deport any immigrants who were in the tower and survived.
When I read this sort of stuff I see the logic of why Brexit happened - the UK is no longer an enlightened European state.