Another whinge about mat gathering

I currently have 5 ships - all engineered - I have enough spare bits for two others - all engineered - loads of spare guns, pack hounds etc etc - all engineered . I have gaurdian gizmo's and fighters galore - I've never, since playing in beta "Had" to go looking for any commodity to carry out said engineering - not in the old system nor the current one.
When you kill stuff loot everything (collector limpets are your friend) - scan everything - this will not only fill your data banks it's good situational awarness - I play in live and have died a grand total of twice since launch to other players - once to a group of 5 and once while afk.
I have zero sympathy for anyone who complains of "grind" or material gathering - this is one of the easiest games I have ever played in which to gather and trade resources.
Now get of my lawn. :p
 
I just gather up whatever I can actually find and let the mat traders do the rest. I haven’t actually stumbled across chemical manipulators in ages, but as long as I keep finding better stuff, it’s not an issue.
 
You're right, it sucks. FWIW I recommend you go to a high-pop null-state Imperial system and harvest Imperial Shielding in bulk, as it's the most reliably available and isn't diluted by any other high-grade drops or G4s (like Fed drops and boom etc. are) Then trade those for what you need. Going directly for the state-specific stuff like pharmisos and imp components is a BGS-dependent nightmare, and even common states like boom drop an irritating spread of things you don't necessarily want/need.
 
I have zero sympathy for anyone who complains of "grind" or material gathering - this is one of the easiest games I have ever played in which to gather and trade resources.
Sorry but you seem to have misunderstood. "Grind" has nothing to do with difficulty and everything to do with how arbitrarily boring, asinine and repetitive it is. Consider the fact that hardly any of Elite's level progression is directly linked to any of its challenging gameplay mechanics and try formulating another sentence.
 

rootsrat

Volunteer Moderator
Because it's really tedious.

No, like, really, really tedious.

The new(ish) exploration mechanic is much better than the old fly-round-in-circles-till-you-run-over-them one but the spawn-rates are tweaked waAAAay too low.

I mean I've been looking for Imp Components now for about 45 minutes going from one (of the very few) civil unrest system to another and I've hit only a single HGE spawn, and it was in the wrong state.

And that wouldn't be too bad if you could do something else while you're looking, if it was possible to just find them along the way - but no, if you're looking for level 5 mats like that you pretty much have to find the right HGE spawns (reports of getting them as mission rewards are just fake news as far as I can see).

So I'm writing this basically to pass the time and that's an hour now and still nada.

Frontier, this is NOT your customer base:

Two words: MATERIAL TRADER.
 
Two words: MATERIAL TRADER.
Is the mat trader a bandaide patch for bad farming mechanics though? Is it by design that I farm imp shielding and trade down and across? I used to go where I needed for pharm isos and imp components, the current iteration is no where near as reliable. I used to do base data beacon runs for mef and crack, and that seems off now. I used to go famine for wakes, and that is now dead. The new generation RNGs don't seem to conform to in game descriptions of sources. It's not impossible to get mats, it just isn't internally consistent with the game documentation.
 
Because it's really tedious.

No, like, really, really tedious.

The new(ish) exploration mechanic is much better than the old fly-round-in-circles-till-you-run-over-them one but the spawn-rates are tweaked waAAAay too low.

I mean I've been looking for Imp Components now for about 45 minutes going from one (of the very few) civil unrest system to another and I've hit only a single HGE spawn, and it was in the wrong state.

And that wouldn't be too bad if you could do something else while you're looking, if it was possible to just find them along the way - but no, if you're looking for level 5 mats like that you pretty much have to find the right HGE spawns (reports of getting them as mission rewards are just fake news as far as I can see).

So I'm writing this basically to pass the time and that's an hour now and still nada.

Frontier, this is NOT your customer base:

Frontier wants you to have a sense of pride and accomplishment after spending hours looking for the right mats.
 
Sorry but you seem to have misunderstood. "Grind" has nothing to do with difficulty and everything to do with how arbitrarily boring, asinine and repetitive it is.
With this I agree wholeheartedly. I think it was a big mistake for Frontier to go with a material system, for a variety of reasons. It makes way more sense in a game like ESO where I can choose to roleplay a craftsman who hunts animals to make his leather armor, but I don't know any mechanic who goes to the gravel pit and smashes rocks to get materials to soup up the engine in his car.

I'd much rather rare weapons be loot. You want pack hounds, go disable a pirate ship and take his. You want some phased sequenced burst lasers, destroy a military ship in a CZ and perhaps you'll get lucky and find one in the wreckage. For non-combat types, these loots might also be found at crash sites and in debris fields, though the best "loot drops" should be from either tough boss fights or rewards for hard missions.

That's not to say there wouldn't be room for adjusting our modules, though I wish ED again followed other MMOs where WE are the craftsmen / women who "level up" our abilities to modify our own gear at any station with an outfitting service. I mean, if you really start thinking about the logic behind ED's engineers, it's utter rubbish. Like I said early in this thread, I would be happy forgoing engineering entirely, but so much of the game is now built around the material system that it's pretty hollow if you try to ignore these materials that are EVERYWHERE (except the ones the OP wants, LOL).
 
I don't sweat it. I engineer to G4 easily (except FSD which is fairly easy to G5 engineer) then let the g5 mats come from:

1) Missions
2) PvE with limpets
3) Surface mining, which unlike many others, I really enjoy because the SRV is FUN!
4) Asteroid mining (with limpets of course)
5) Mat trading

I vary seldom any more go the Dav's Hope and various crash sites. I vary seldom use high grade USSes any more because of the hassle (and I hate the FSS).

In other words, the game is as grindy as you make it.
 
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rootsrat

Volunteer Moderator
Is the mat trader a bandaide patch for bad farming mechanics though? Is it by design that I farm imp shielding and trade down and across? I used to go where I needed for pharm isos and imp components, the current iteration is no where near as reliable. I used to do base data beacon runs for mef and crack, and that seems off now. I used to go famine for wakes, and that is now dead. The new generation RNGs don't seem to conform to in game descriptions of sources. It's not impossible to get mats, it just isn't internally consistent with the game documentation.
In that case you should file a bug report in addition to complaining on the forums. The quicker it gets fixed, the better. (Disclaimer: yes, I do realise there are a lot of bugs not being fixed and this one may be one of them even if you log it. Criticising that part is 100% justified IMO! I also wish FDEV were better at fixing bugs, alas...).

I can tell you how I get my mats. I do it via organic gameplay - just by doing whatever I'm doing in game. And when I want to engineer a ship, I use what I have and then go out and about and get involved in various aspects of the game - missions, passenger transport, geo- and biological sites prospecting, installation comm arrays hacking, planetary bases hacking, Conflict Zones, USS salvaging and so on. When I'm bored with all that stuff, I go to Mat Trader and exchange materials to get what I need, then go and engineer the ship further, and then go back to just playing the game as above.

There are many ways of playing Elite and I'm not saying my way is the only way or the right way (it's just my way, nothing more, nothing less) - but I can tell you that it's definitely not a boring way, because you get to do a lot of varied activities. Therefore it doesn't feel like a grind at all. If you keep repeating same thing over and over it's a given you will get bored with it after a while. And If you keep doing it despite hating it and then complain about the grind... Well, I have no sympathy for you whatsoever, because you're the only one to blame here. Not the game.

Sure, there are grindy parts in Elite for sure, but materials hunting is not one of them, if you do it the way I described above. You can definitely turn it into a grind, but - again - that's your own doing.

In addition - yes, this game is a lot of different things to different people, which makes a lot of it very subjective - however one thing is 100% by design, and that's slow progress. It's just been made that way. I actually think it's a good thing - but I appreciate a lot of the people will disagree. Want a fully engineered uber-ship for yesterday? Sorry, you chose a wrong game to play.
 
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I don't sweat it.
I currently have 5 ships - all engineered
Good for you two, that's great. Arguments like this don't tend to stand up on closer inspection though, do they... "I don't mind," and "it's not an issue for my playstyle" may be true statements taken individually but are subjective and not sufficient when discussing the success or otherwise of Frontier's game design - aspects of which can be discussed objectively in the context of the games industry at large (and in this case, basic logic). Yeah, FWIW I don't have a problem collecting materials either, I have flexible working hours and multiple thousands of hours under my belt and have long since broken the game's systems over my knee as have most long-term players. That doesn't mean it's not a problem.

The whole 'you make it a grind' argument is frankly tired. It's naive to think you can lay the blame soley at the feet of individual players, as if there are no steps developers can take to tackle this issue. On the contrary, designers work diligently to try and shore up their games against "grindy" tendencies. It is well documented. As a simple introductory example you could watch
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7L8vAGGitr8


It makes way more sense in a game like ESO where I can choose to roleplay a craftsman who hunts animals to make his leather armor
J'agree. To be really clear about it though, I don't actually begrudge anyone who likes just listening to podcasts and popping in the HGEs, whatever mang, we all need to chill once in a while... but the fact that Elite departs entirely from the well-established principle that in order to get better at Thing A you should just do Thing A, rather than stop doing Thing A for 100 hours and do completely unrelated Thing Y (which you may or may not like).
 
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Depending on one's degree of "Obsessive Compulsive Disorder" aka "OCD". There is no such thing as grinding.
This is a snappy soundbite but unfortunately it's wrong (and also vaguely offensive). When a large portion of a game's progression mechanics require (yes, require, for some playstyles G5 ships are mandatory) vast swathes of players to depart from the activities they enjoy in order to do repetitive and skill-less activities they enjoy less it's a problem... regardless of any mental health issues individual players may or may not struggle with.
 
If you keep repeating same thing over and over it's a given you will get bored with it after a while. And If you keep doing it despite hating it and then complain about the grind... Well, I have no sympathy for you whatsoever, because you're the only one to blame here. Not the game.

Sure, there are grindy parts in Elite for sure, but materials hunting is not one of them, if you do it the way I described above. You can definitely turn it into a grind, but - again - that's your own doing.
I don't fully agree with that, the game is definitely to blame as well.

Why do you think so many players feel the "need" to do something they absolutely don't enjoy? There's absolutely no balance regarding rewards between all the different activities in this game. Add to that the RNG lottery and it's easy to see why players choose the reliable and efficient option rather than risk wasting 50h because you were unlucky.

People will always look for the shortest path towards their goal - that's player behavior 101. A game designer has to anticipate this and design accordingly.

The fact that phrases like "it's only a grind if you make it one" get thrown around here so regularly should be indication enough that maybe things aren't quite perfect and it's not just the players who are to blame.
 
This is a snappy soundbite but unfortunately it's wrong (and also vaguely offensive). When a large portion of a game's progression mechanics require (yes, require, for some playstyles G5 ships are mandatory) vast swathes of players to depart from the activities they enjoy in order to do repetitive and skill-less activities they enjoy less it's a problem... regardless of any mental health issues individual players may or may not struggle with.
I think it's vaguely offensive - but right. ED is my leisure activity. I don't have to play it; other games are available; other hobbies are available; even in ED I can choose what I do. I take full responsibility for what I do in the game. If I'm not enjoying it, that's down to me and within my control to change - I change it. I value my leisure time and make the most of it: I will never "grind" a computer game. The many hours I've spent in ED have therefore not contained any "grind".

Do, or do not. There is no grind.
 
I think it's vaguely offensive - but right. ED is my leisure activity. I don't have to play it; other games are available; other hobbies are available; even in ED I can choose what I do. I take full responsibility for what I do in the game. If I'm not enjoying it, that's down to me and within my control to change - I change it. I value my leisure time and make the most of it: I will never "grind" a computer game. The many hours I've spent in ED have therefore not contained any "grind".
You've basically just repeated what others were saying, without engaging with what's actually being said in the previous several posts.

It's naive to think you can lay the blame soley at the feet of individual players
for some playstyles G5 ships are mandatory
People will always look for the shortest path towards their goal - that's player behavior 101. A game designer has to anticipate this and design accordingly.

The fact that phrases like "it's only a grind if you make it one" get thrown around here so regularly should be indication enough that maybe things aren't quite perfect and it's not just the players who are to blame.
Please. Saying "it's all on you" and "lol just go play a different game then" is just tragedy level argumentation. No, I like a lot of stuff about Elite so I think I will continue playing it, thanks... and yet somehow Frontier's design decisions aren't miraculously absolved of all guilt. "Like it or lump it" is a catchy thing to say, but when it comes to constructive criticism of any activity or art form it's beyond worthless.
 
Pretty much everyone who's defending material collection mechanics in here is going via the angle of "it's OK because I find it OK, here check my anecdote" whereas the people criticising it are by and large offering criticism of the basic design approach: how about in the interests of having a functional discussion the defenders provide some kind of constructive argumentation as to why the system as-is is well designed... not just saying "I personally am not bothered by it." That would be more interesting to hear.
 
Engineering is for the most part a difficulty slider. If the player is really good at (PvE) combat say, or enjoy a challenge they don't need to worry so much about getting better gear, because what they have is good enough. And if they are not such a hotshot, or just want it all to be a bit easier, then engineering allows them to use their other skills (tenacity etc) to effectively compensate.

Only in freeform PvP is there a strong incentive to equip the best gear, and if you want to be able to compete with the best you should be prepared to put the time & effort into that.
 
You've basically just repeated what others were saying, without engaging with what's actually being said in the previous several posts.
...
Yes. Because it's true.

I once read a news item about prisoners in a Chinese jail who were kept awake all night by the guards and forced to play WoW so that the guards could make a profit from the credits they gained. Those guys could justifiably complain about "grind". You and I only play ED because we want to. I take responsibility for my own actions, do you?
 
Engineering is for the most part a difficulty slider.
No it isn't. It's a flagship piece of Horizon's content and is one of the main avenues of progression in the game. NPC ships are now regularly engineered and Cobras can have up to 2500 hull in CZs while vanilla weapons still pretty much put out the same damage and have the same ammo capacity as they did in 2015. You don't have to G5 your ship for most PvE, that's true, but it doesn't absolve Engineering of design flaws.

to use their other skills (tenacity etc)
It's actually the skill-less nature of material collection that is an issue for most people. Tenacity and patience are not "skills" many people want tested by their digital entertainment, although each to their own.

you should be prepared to put the time & effort into that
Why should the time and effort be boring? Surely it's in a game's interests to reward and encourage players having fun, rather than requiring them to do boring things to fund something they want to do?


Yes. Because it's true.

I once read a news item about prisoners in a Chinese jail who were kept awake all night by the guards and forced to play WoW so that the guards could make a profit from the credits they gained. Those guys could justifiably complain about "grind". You and I only play ED because we want to. I take responsibility for my own actions, do you?
Again, you are repeating yourself and not engaging with any constructive criticism whatsoever. Nice anecdote though, that's great.
 
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