Answers from the devs #2

[Robert Maynard]

People that play Open mode seeking player interaction and wanting to have impact on other players ultimately falls short in the sense that it only affects a selective group of players that have to voluntarily give their consent, which can be revoked nearly instantaneously for player interaction to occur. While Solo mode is complete in the sense that it achieves its purpose of attaining total solitude, Open mode falls very short of its purpose.

That's quite a good summary of how Open works - players choose to play in it - and Frontier have not put in any restrictions that would make anyone unable to "play the game how you want to" - except for those whose play-style relies on others to want to play the same way - and Frontier are not about to force players to be content for others.

Players who choose a play-style that relies on others need to accept that others need to choose the same game mode for that play-style to be possible.

 

[GluttonyFang]

One last act of hypocrisy on my part:
Always wondered, does CODE have a homebase/system?

And I noticed you have a typo in your sig where it should say: "Stardust"

Uh... we used to stage in Leesti, but we left for Lord Delaine.

But... I think some of us slipped back to the Lave cluster... by accident... ahem ahem...

I think my avatar does the exact action I wish to do, so stare at my avatar for a solid 5 seconds and there's my answer.

And uh, the text on my signature reads: Adusti Isamu The Magician (Original image)

So partially it isn't English
Adusti(Latin)
Isamu(Japanese)

It's one of my earliest work as a digital artist, I like to remind myself how far I've come in terms of my hobbies.

 

[GluttonyFang]

That's quite a good summary of how Open works - players choose to play in it - and Frontier have not put in any restrictions that would make anyone unable to "play the game how you want to" - except for those whose play-style relies on others to want to play the same way - and Frontier are not about to force players to be content for others.

Players who choose a play-style that relies on others need to accept that others need to choose the same game mode for that play-style to be possible.

I understand the concept you are conveying, but I am reflecting on the issue from a different stance.

It ultimately falls on the question that why is the Universe shared?

If Open and Solo are separate Universes, it solves pretty much most of the controversy.

For that Open will become an independent, closed system, just like the current Solo.

What we are looking at, and you are confirming is that Open mode relies on consent. Where is Solo mode's reliance of consent from the Open players that we allow the Solo players to be a part of our Universe?

Solo infringes upon Open, while Open does not and cannot infringe upon Solo. That is the problem.

Btw, thank you for addressing me personally and answering the concerns of the community. I said it before and I will say it again, communication is always appreciated.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Uh... we used to stage in Leesti, but we left for Lord Delaine.

But... I think some of us slipped back to the Lave cluster... by accident... ahem ahem...

Cheers,

you may have a visit from Insane Sightseeing Tours in the near future.

"And to the left you can see the fearsome pirates of CODE".

 

[GluttonyFang]

Cheers,

you may have a visit from Insane Sightseeing Tours in the near future.

"And to the left you can see the fearsome pirates of CODE".

I sprayed my screen with coffee again (did it yesterday, too)... God damn it logging on this forum is dangerous to my laptop...

 

[Robert Maynard]

I understand the concept you are conveying, but I am reflecting on the issue from a different stance.

It ultimately falls on the question that why is the Universe shared?

If Open and Solo are separate Universes, it solves pretty much most of the controversy.

For that Open will become an independent, closed system, just like the current Solo.

What we are looking at, and you are confirming is that Open mode relies on consent. Where is Solo mode's reliance of consent from the Open players that we allow the Solo players to be a part of our Universe?

Solo infringes upon Open, while Open does not and cannot infringe upon Solo. That is the problem.

Btw, thank you for addressing me personally and answering the concerns of the community. I said it before and I will say it again, communication is always appreciated.

I fear that you may be under a misapprehension: as a Moderator of these forums, I am an unpaid volunteer - not a Frontier employee nor representative. Moderators are recruited from the forum user-base - I had been a member here for a bit over two years before I joined the Moderation Team.

From the outset, the shared galaxy state (between all modes and now, with the upcoming release on XBox One, all platforms) has been a core feature of the game design:

FAQ- Elite: Dangerous​

How will single player work? Will I need to connect to a server to play?

The galaxy for Elite: Dangerous is a shared universe maintained by a central server. All of the meta data for the galaxy is shared between players. This includes the galaxy itself as well as transient information like economies. The aim here is that a player's actions will influence the development of the galaxy, without necessarily having to play multiplayer.


The other important aspect for us is that we can seed the galaxy with events, often these events will be triggered by player actions. With a living breathing galaxy players can discover new and interesting things long after they have started playing.​

Frontier pitched the game with this feature at the core of the design and they have implemented it and the three game modes and mode switching in accordance with the pitched design that attracted the funding that gave them the confidence to start development of the game.

Given that all players can play in all modes (but may choose not to, of course) and the fact that we all affect the same galaxy state, as defined by the game design, it's not up to any player, no matter their favoured mode(s) to deny other players in different mode(s) the evolving galaxy state.

Solo, Private Groups and Open all affect the same galaxy state - I very much doubt that that is going to change, given DBOBE's latest recorded opinion in the interview with Arstechnica at E3:

There are no changes planned to separate solo and online saves, and players will continue to inhabit the same shared galaxy whether they’re in solo or multiplayer—again, continuing with Braben’s contention that there’s no ‘right’ way to play.

 

[VR jefranklin18]

Hyperbola much? I know that in this age of diversity and tolerance we must be nice to the differently brave, bot there is a limit. Also I'm not saying there shouldn't be a solo mode, only that the game should be rebalanced so that the inherently greater risks in open should have rewards equal to that reward.

Frontier have said it is not going to change so why keep dragging it up? You (and I mean all those moaning about Open vs Solo balance, not just you personally) need to a) accept Frontier's decision and continue as is, b) move on to another game if the trauma of people being able to play solo is just too much for you or c) write your own spacee flight sim if you think it is so easy (as some of you seem to).

And before I am accused of white knighting (a dumb expression), I have been very critical of Frontier in recent weeks, however I have accepted their position and have moved on.

 

[CMDR Hagglebeard]

Hey FD, are we any closer to improving the various professions? iracy is in the most desperate place right now, and only a simple hotfix (here) is needed to keep player pirates in for at least another month. We need to hear something about this, as many pirates have either left the game or are very close to doing so, myself included. At the very least, give us something to look forward to, an acknowledgment, something. I don't log onto ED for any purpose these days except to check GalNet, and I will occasionally check the newest Trade CGs.

Here is a thread with a load of suggestions: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=163170

I have created many threads on piracy, but the above is the best compilation of suggestion that exists, as far as I know. Please, take some time and give us a reason to log on again.

Thanks in advance.

 

[GluttonyFang]

I fear that you may be under a misapprehension: as a Moderator of these forums, I am an unpaid volunteer - not a Frontier employee nor representative. Moderators are recruited from the forum user-base - I had been a member here for a bit over two years before I joined the Moderation Team.

I understand your position and relation to FD, I merely wanted to express my gratitude in your coming out and addressing some of people's concerns when you can technically ignore the issue.

From the outset, the shared galaxy state (between all modes and now, with the upcoming release on XBox One, all platforms) has been a core feature of the game design:

Frontier pitched the game with this feature at the core of the design and they have implemented it and the three game modes and mode switching in accordance with the pitched design that attracted the funding that gave them the confidence to start development of the game.

Given that all players can play in all modes (but may choose not to, of course) and the fact that we all affect the same galaxy state, as defined by the game design, it's not up to any player, no matter their favoured mode(s) to deny other players in different mode(s) the evolving galaxy state.

Solo, Private Groups and Open all affect the same galaxy state - I very much doubt that that is going to change, given DBOBE's latest recorded opinion in the interview with Arstechnica at E3:

There are no changes planned to separate solo and online saves, and players will continue to inhabit the same shared galaxy whether they’re in solo or multiplayer—again, continuing with Braben’s contention that there’s no ‘right’ way to play.

The problem is that we have witnessed quite a betrayal by FD to the backers in the CQC timed exclusive release to Xbox (We all know its the revenue that matters) which shakes the already loose faith people have in FD.

Also, again, stating that modes are equal and valid are simply not the case in a pragmatic sense (no "right" way to play the game, philosophical fallacy in the sense that either something is correct and by comparison others are false or the assignment of attributes like such are considered null). Solo play is denying Open play from being fully functional, if anything, to maintain the attitude that all modes will be valid and equal, separating the shared Universe is the easiest fix to the issue. But if there is no intention from FD to do so, at least live up to their statement of claiming the modes' equality and need for respect. Which I do not see much movement in that department, either.

 

[Robert Maynard]

The problem is that we have witnessed quite a betrayal by FD to the backers in the CQC timed exclusive release to Xbox (We all know its the revenue that matters) which shakes the already loose faith people have in FD.

Also, again, stating that modes are equal and valid are simply not the case in a pragmatic sense (no "right" way to play the game, philosophical fallacy in the sense that either something is correct and by comparison others are false or the assignment of attributes like such are considered null). Solo play is denying Open play from being fully functional, if anything, to maintain the attitude that all modes will be valid and equal, separating the shared Universe is the easiest fix to the issue. But if there is no intention from FD to do so, at least live up to their statement of claiming the modes' equality and need for respect. Which I do not see much movement in that department, either.

I would hardly call a short delay between a new feature arriving on a new platform and it being released on PC/Mac a "betrayal" - as a Day 2 Kickstarter backer, I realise that there are like;y commercially attractive benefits to doing so - Microsoft does have deep pockets, after all - and now we are being told that the delay may only be a matter of weeks.

The three modes and switching have existed in the game design since the outset - everyone backing / buying the game did so with these design features in place - buying a game with the hope of having any of them removed / modified / restricted so late in the day seems to be rather an ambitious goal.

.... and it is the players themselves who choose which mode to play in - it is completely up to them (having been encouraged to "play the game how yo want to") when they play and in which mode they play in. If Open is less attractive, for whatever reason, players who find it unattractive will vote with their feet.

In a nutshell, Frontier have created a game where players can choose to be affected by other players but cannot guarantee or force interaction with others who do not want it.

 

[fergal]

I still don't understand all the solo is easy mode arguments.
I've said all along, open with friends is easy mode. This was streamlined with the wings update making it much easier to drop into someones wake.

I've never faced any difficulties flying with a wing in open. Its also so much more difficult for 2 wings to be instanced together than 8 random players that the "risk" of finding an even fight in open when you are in a wing is minimal.

I've been in battles with 18-22 players in them that ran smoothly. This is extremely rare for me, and I wasn't in a wing (in fact all of them might have been before 1.2 was out)

I've been at res sites that started rubber banding with one other player.

Flying around with 3 other players is a big flag to the game saying you aren't interested in group PvP. I'm sure thats not what many players in wings want, but thats how it works.
I've tested it out many many times, particularly at Community Goals.

So for any traders out there that want to play in Open, but want to reduce their chance of getting interdicted by a hostile wing, just wing up with 3 other traders, this will decrease the chance of you being instanced with another wing by a large margin.
Even better, make sure you have players in your wing from different countries, the match making server will even find it hard to instance you with single players, let alone wings of them.
Of course I don't know why you would want to play in open if you don't want the chance of getting interdicted by other players

 

[Anopheles]

Not understanding the 'everyone in open has friends' argument. Even if this were true, group of friends would oppose group of friends and the original point would stand.

 

[Alexander the Grape]

One more question, apologies it has already been asked:

Is Ironman mode still on the roadmap? Will it be different mechanically to standard mode to compensate for the increased stakes of more dangerous professions (mercenary, bounty hunting, piracy)?

 

[HeimdallofHavn]

Hahaha, Amazing!

Kudos to Frontier hiring you Zac.

Best hire ever

 

[fergal]

Not understanding the 'everyone in open has friends' argument. Even if this were true, group of friends would oppose group of friends and the original point would stand.

If you are listing the different modes of ED by difficulty it would be Wings in Open is the easiest, then Solo, then Open by yourself is the hardest.

These conversations seem to just talk about solo being easy and open being hard.

 

[Robert Maynard]

If you are listing the different modes of ED by difficulty it would be Wings in Open is the easiest, then Solo, then Open by yourself is the hardest.

These conversations seem to just talk about solo being easy and open being hard.

Would Private Group Wings not be easier than Open Wings?

 

[Dommarraa]

A quick and easy one :

A) listen to it more
B) use it
C) transport it

 

[fergal]

Would Private Group Wings not be easier than Open Wings?

Well whos been mentioning private groups in this argument

 

[Robert Maynard]

Well whos been mentioning private groups in this argument

They are often forgotten by those who insist that those who don't like aspects of Open should move to Solo.... No need to seclude oneself in Solo when players can still interact with like-minded individuals in a Private Group.

 

[fergal]

They are often forgotten by those who insist that those who don't like aspects of Open should move to Solo.... No need to seclude oneself in Solo when players can still interact with like-minded individuals in a Private Group.

Yeah, I'm hiding in a Private group right now, for convoluted reasons.
Basically there are people on my friends list who are tying to kill me, and they can see me wherever I am in open.

I got sick of the stealthed players spawn camping the station exit too
Its quite a strange situation.