Any Generational Ships with inhabitant?

I was reading some of the background lore about early pre FSD space travel in Elite. There are sub-light speed colony ships out there. According to the wiki some have been found. The wiki only mentions ones that have been abandoned. Some made it to their destinations, others suffered catastrophic events (diseases, suicide religions, engine malfunctions, etc).

Are there any that have a living population on board? Are there any In orbit of populated worlds that have been converted into space stations?
 
I was reading some of the background lore about early pre FSD space travel in Elite. There are sub-light speed colony ships out there. According to the wiki some have been found. The wiki only mentions ones that have been abandoned. Some made it to their destinations, others suffered catastrophic events (diseases, suicide religions, engine malfunctions, etc).

Are there any that have a living population on board? Are there any In orbit of populated worlds that have been converted into space stations?
None that have been found. Space is big, get out there and search. Be the first to find one.
 
Part of the problem, from a game design standpoint, is that Elite doesn't currently have any way to interact with people/characters that would make such a ship meaningful.

Conceptually, the inhabitants of a generation ship would have a completed different culture than what we're used to. Also, their technology would be 1000 years behind ours. It's an interesting science fiction scenario, but how do you implement that in Elite:Dangerous? You can't walk around inside the ship. You can't interact with any of the people.

What exactly is your expectation about how this would work in the game??

Incidentally, this problem is one of the reasons I strongly encourage FDev to create single-player campaigns. There are a lot of things in the lore; there are a lot of interesting characters, but we don't have any way to experience them. If not a campaign, maybe they should just make movies like this one:

[video=youtube;1W1_8IV8uhA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1W1_8IV8uhA[/video]

Just something to bring people up to speed on the history that's in the game, but scattered about. How many people even know what happened to the last emperor? How many people have even seen a thargoid (I haven't!) I wouldn't even know they were in the game if not for obsidian ant.
 
Sidreal6 said:

What exactly is your expectation about how this would work in the game??

My reply:

With the current game mechanics, I’m expecting a different looking station and maybe some weird technology that can only be gotten from that specific location.

There is no reason to assume they are limited to technology that is 1000 years old. The ship had scientist and engineers and had to deal with problems that the rest of human civilization didn’t. They wouldn’t be as advanced in general because of the limited resources but they might have one thing that the rest of us don’t.

Assuming the ship has been found (in terms of lore) but not by a player yet, there is no reason to assume they haven’t been brought up to date technologically. So nice the ship has gone through many generations already, the inhabitants have no reason to leave it; it is their home. But trade with the rest of us would still be beneficial.
 
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None that have been found. Space is big, get out there and search. Be the first to find one.
There's one past the Hutton Orbital in Alfa Centauri... Usually not too hard to find after picking up your free Anaconda but I would recommend you add an extra fuel tank in case you get lost...
 
Tis a lie! :D
I believe your avatar is suffering from radiation exposure.

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Things like the uninhabited Generations ship, vast floating tombs for dreams the died in transit, would be best explored - hold on to your seat - on foot.

Yeah, that means getting up from your seat and walking around, to visit these sorts of things, see what's left, see what might be there, see what happened first hand.
It's an avenue of gameplay we haven't even begun to approach yet, beyond some of those contagiously happy David Braben videos of him grinning that "I've-got-a-Golden-Ticket" grin and going "Yeah, that would be cool..."

It would be cool, very cool, and push Elite so far into the forefront of what games are able to do, if it's done well, done completely (in terms of systems, mechanics, balancing, and capabilities) from the start. Perhaps in Not-a-Season 7 or 8 we'll get to this. And this holds true for populated megaships and structures as well. Some interaction beyond just a menu wouldn't just be over the top, it would be well above it.
 
Just imagine how frustrating it'd be to the inhabitants if they survived as long as they did in a generation ship, only to find when they get to their destination that FTL was invented and there were people ready to meet them that took a couple hours to get to the same place.

There's a fun book series I've been reading called Aeon-14. It isn't very thought provoking, and it's definitely what I would call "airplane books" (something you'd read to stay occupied on a flight). The centerpiece of the books is a generation ship that left Earth in the 44th century, got caught in a streamer of dark matter coming off Kapteyn's Star and experience severe time dilation, ending up in the 90th century when they get out. In the meantime, humanity invented FTL, descended into a dark age, and are just now coming out of it capable of FTL flight but actually centuries behind technological advancement compared to the inhabitants of the generation ship.
 
A neat twist would be that one of the generation ships arrived fully populated on an inhabited world, but to survive they had to form a symbiotic relationship with a native species - years of co-evolution later they are now a spacefaring race that we humans know as ...


... Thargoids.
 
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Jenner

Volunteer Moderator
I believe your avatar is suffering from radiation exposure.
Must've been that shoddy frameshift drive repair I got at that last backwater outpost.

Things like the uninhabited Generations ship, vast floating tombs for dreams the died in transit, would be best explored - hold on to your seat - on foot.

Yeah, that means getting up from your seat and walking around, to visit these sorts of things, see what's left, see what might be there, see what happened first hand.
It's an avenue of gameplay we haven't even begun to approach yet, beyond some of those contagiously happy David Braben videos of him grinning that "I've-got-a-Golden-Ticket" grin and going "Yeah, that would be cool..."

It would be cool, very cool, and push Elite so far into the forefront of what games are able to do, if it's done well, done completely (in terms of systems, mechanics, balancing, and capabilities) from the start. Perhaps in Not-a-Season 7 or 8 we'll get to this. And this holds true for populated megaships and structures as well. Some interaction beyond just a menu wouldn't just be over the top, it would be well above it.
Yes! That would indeed be awesome. Not to turn this into yet another 'elite feet' thread, but exploring things like that on foot would really open up the Elite universe imho.
 
Must've been that shoddy frameshift drive repair I got at that last backwater outpost.
Discount service, discount results.

Yes! That would indeed be awesome. Not to turn this into yet another 'elite feet' thread, but exploring things like that on foot would really open up the Elite universe imho.
Certainly don't want to do that.. those threads always blow up into "I don't want that, well, I do, but not in this release. Don't stop developing what you're developing and work on this instead!" Not that that would happen, but that's the general tone I get every time I visit one of those threads, or start one.

Though we have pretty much established that no one really knows if there are any inhabited, made-it-there, or other sort of generational ships beyond those we have discovered.
 
I obviously haven't been paying attention.

I thought it was part of lore that the colony ships are inhabited but completely closed off and there is an injunction against contacting them because they are essentially there own seperate cultural civilisations at this point, and it would be unfair to reintroduce them to the current world of 3300.

I must be thinking of a different sci-fi series lol
 
Things like the uninhabited Generations ship, vast floating tombs for dreams the died in transit, would be best explored - hold on to your seat - on foot.
Or at the very least, with an EVA pack, since there probably won't be gravity on most of the ship. But yeah, +1.

Just imagine how frustrating it'd be to the inhabitants if they survived as long as they did in a generation ship, only to find when they get to their destination that FTL was invented and there were people ready to meet them that took a couple hours to get to the same place.

There's a fun book series I've been reading called Aeon-14. It isn't very thought provoking, and it's definitely what I would call "airplane books" (something you'd read to stay occupied on a flight). The centerpiece of the books is a generation ship that left Earth in the 44th century, got caught in a streamer of dark matter coming off Kapteyn's Star and experience severe time dilation, ending up in the 90th century when they get out. In the meantime, humanity invented FTL, descended into a dark age, and are just now coming out of it capable of FTL flight but actually centuries behind technological advancement compared to the inhabitants of the generation ship.
Interesting that you should mention that. I just finished a two-book set ([1] The Wrong Stars and [2] Darkness Falling by Tim Pratt). Huge starship using alien technology heading to the alien's offices near the Galactic core. "What about our speed when we pop back into normal space?" the captain asks. "Oh, no problem, our location there has a system that'll decelerate you to normal speed so you don't bump into the super massive black hole."

It's not there and they end up getting caught right on the edge of the event horizon for a short while. They get "unstuck" from that location when the Andromeda Galaxy black hole bumps into it. 4.5 billion years have passed in just 3 seconds.

"Well, that's ANOTHER fine mess you've gotten us into."
 
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Well, from a certain point of view there may be evidence that they're in the game already.

Things we know about these generation ships:
- They were sublight (so aren't going to be further than 1000 LYs away).
- They were launched from Earth in the period 2097 to about 2700.
- Back in 3100 (original '84 Elite) there were strict penalties in place for anyone caught interfering with a generation ship (presumably they meant a "live" one, rather than a dead/abandoned hulk).
- There were an estimated 70,000 of them.
- There are only 20,000 inhabited systems in the bubble.
- Being sublight ships, they do not "jump" from system to system, but travel through normal space.
- The log of the Thetis mentions a "ninth generation" baby; they were presumably about 300 years into the voyage at that juncture; it was given as a matter-of-fact statement while the ship was not in crisis, so it can be assumed that that ship, at least, was expected and designed to last that long.
- The log of the Venusian indicates that it was attacked and raided by hyperspace-capable pirates (the log erroneously calls it "Supercruise", though FSD technology did not exist back then) - so in-lore at least, generation ships can be discovered and interacted with.

Some other non-generational-ship-related facts which we know:
- There are some permit-locked systems out near the fringe of inhabited space. We don't know why they are permit-locked, nor how to access their permits.
- There are even some Earth-like planets within the Bubble that have inexplicably never been colonized. TRAPPIST-1, of course, but there are others, such as MCC 528, HIP 50874 and HIP 19789. You can derive a full list from the ELW database thread; anything less than 200 LYs of Sol could be considered "within the Bubble"; there are 25 of them.

Things we can conjecture about generation ships:
- The name "generation ship" implies their destinations were at least 50 years away (a ship that takes less than a generation to reach its destination is a "colony ship", not a "generation ship").
- With only a few thousand target systems that are both within generation-ship range and with viable planets to terraform or live on, many of those 70,000 ships must have "doubled-up". That is, many systems must have been colonized by more than one generation ship.
- If the "golden age" ended in 2700, then most of those 70,000 ships were probably launched around 2500-2600 (I would assume that construction started slow, then sped up). None of the currently-known-ships logs indicate an AD date, of either the logged events or of the ship's launch. Let's assume 50,000 ships were launched in the 26th century.
- Hyperdrive-capable probes and scout ships explored every system within 100 LYs of Sol, well in advance of the wave of generation ships. So most of these ships would have been launched with a specific destination planet in mind, and they'd have already known what the planet was like before they left (to put the timeframe in context, Achenar was colonized by a fleet of small hyperdrive-capable colony ships in the 2200s, and the first Federation-Achenar war began in 2324).
- Many, if not most, must have safely Arrived at their destinations and were presumably disassembled to provide raw materials for the colony.
- Many probably arrived to find that the planet they'd set out to colonize was now already at least partially colonized, either by an earlier generation ship or by by people who'd arrived in hyperdrive-equipped ships, and whose colonists were probably not expecting a generation ship to arrive.
- The vast majority of generation ships that are still sailing, are way out there in the interstellar darkness, far from any star.
- No generation ship has been reported as having unexpectedly Arrived at its destination for at least the last hundred years, else it would probably have been mentioned in Galnet when the Missing stories broke.

Conclusions:
- Any "live" colony ship would have been in space for 700-1000 years. However, I would assume a mission duration beyond 500 years would have been considered unreasonably long. If there were 50,000 ships launched in a century (see note above), that makes an average of more than one a day. So any potential colonists would have had plenty of options. If you were a potential colonist and there were multiple ships being launched every week promising a 300-500 year voyage for your descendants, why would you sign up for a 1000 year one? Thus, any ship still in flight on its planned trajectory would have to have been commissioned for a specific group of people with a religious/cultural/ideological goal of "getting away from it all".
- Any ship intending to travel for 1000 years would be aiming for a quite remote target; 1000 years at 1/3 of lightspeed is 300 LYs away, beyond or right at the fringe of the current edge of the Bubble.
- Any live colony ship found in a system is presumably either travelling at a significant fraction of lightspeed through that system (and so won't be "in that system" for more than a few months) or is slowing down preparing for Arrival.

Theories:
- It is possible that some of the extreme permit-locked systems are permit-locked to permit the Arrival of a generation ship and to allow the colonists to colonize in peace and interact with any prior arrivals, without external meddling.
- Numerous unclaimed Earth-like and Terraformable planets exist within the Bubble. It is possible that "They" (shadowy government figures buried deep in the bureaucracies of the two old superpowers?) are aware of and are secretly keeping an eye on at least some of the few surviving generation ships, and are ensuring that their destination planets are being kept free of current colonists so that each generation ship still has an empty planet to Arrive at.
 
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