Sorry, but without referencing verifiable, trustworthy dictionary i can't agree on definition of this term. Try again. Because your opinion is as good as mine.
Any grind, is in your mind.
- Thread starter shadragon
- Start date
Sorry, but without referencing verifiable, trustworthy dictionary i can't agree on definition of this term. Try again. Because your opinion is as good as mine.
This is where you were projecting.
There have been several posts here pointing out exactly how it's grind. The responses by those of you refusing to accept it is "it's your opinion" - can we change that record or perhaps could you all start providing a robust rebuttal of everything that we've taken the time to explain here? We've told you the game's game mechanics are a grind - that is a fact. If you can't understand what is being said, let's just move on - it's cool
Jex, we can't 'change that record' until you guys start putting 'in my opinion' or 'imo' at the end of your posts, you have to see that those of you claiming grind in Elite as a universal constant are wrong, it is opinion, an opinion you are allowed to hold, that is all it is.
In terms of rebuttals, well, what do you want those of us not grinding to do Jex?. Maybe list a series of aspects of Elite that we enjoy?, here is what would happen if we did that, you, (and others), would list that action or actions in a simplistic way and then ask us 'how is that not grindy' or 'how is that engaging', what would be the point in that?
And please stop with the pathetic passive/aggressive insults, 'if you can't understand, move on', come on Jex, you aren't the only one that did GCSE English, what possibly could I not 'understand'? If you want a debate about why Elite Dangerous is a grind in certain areas in your opinion, fine, let's debate away, if you are just gonna bury your head in the sand and go 'NA NA NA, it's a grind for everyone cos I say so' then there is no debate to be had.
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What you posted is all well and good, IF the game had content that was meaningful and not just some reiteration of cargo missions (passengers anyone)? The ONLY consistent thing FD have installed in ED IS the grind. I take issue with a game that requires the players to make up for its shortcomings by having to fill in the gaps due to bad/sloppy design choices.
noun
noun: grind; plural noun: grinds
1.
a crushing or grating sound or motion.
"the crunch and grind of bulldozers"
the size of ground particles.
"only the right grind gives you all the fine flavour"
2.
hard dull work.
"relief from the daily grind"
synonyms: chore, slog, travail; drudgery, toil, hard work, donkey work, labour, slavery, exertion;
informalfag, sweat
I beg to differ. I'm an old school and am not shy about having to grind to get places in a game BUT the issue here is there is very little at the end of the journey, the GRIND is content according to Dave & co
Quite right .... we need more class in this thread?
How about Shakey?
Now all is done, have what shall have no end
Mine appetite I never more will grind
On newer proof, to try an older friend,
A god in love, to whom I am confined.
Rudyard anything to add?
The close years packed behind them,
As the glaciers bite and grind,
Filling the new-gouged valleys
With Gods of every kind.
Every kind eh? You're a hard one to please, Henry Wadsworth Longfellow, what do you say?
Beware! The Israelite of old, who tore
The lion in his path,--when, poor and blind,
He saw the blessed light of heaven no more,
Shorn of his noble strength and forced to grind
Talk sense Henry! What's worth indeed! What say you Sidney Lanier?
With sarcasm of a friend
Doth smite the man would lag behind
To frontward of his end;
Yea, where the taunting fall and grind
Whoa, that was uncalled for. Bad Sidney!
maybe this was a bad idea.
Spent more time reading the last 15 pages.
Actually guys I find myself being unable to distribute many more reps, for once I have found myself repping people for really well thought out arguments from both sides. Rare indeed for me!
Waff aside..
So if 'grind' is an integral part of ED, I think it's fair that I empty the though welling in my head:
Bring in a fun factor to grinding, and make these missions longer and harder, but for 10x the reward payouts. For me it's a moot point, but if I had been given one epic mission arc for reputation gain, and upon completion I WILL be ranked up.. that would feel like an mission endeavor that would appease the soul. Running hundreds (thousands) of small pointless, mindless missions adds zero for me to the game experience.
Empire rank for a trader: Hey Vorxian, listen we need someone gutsy enough to transport 400t of food and medicine to war torn xyz planet in abc system. The local militants will try to stop you, but that food will save thousands of starving imperial citizens. Do this for us, and your good deeds will no doubt bolster your reputation with the high emperor.
Does Elite Dangerous ranking really have to be made up of arbitrary mission after mission of something that feels pointless for 1% rank gain? Ofcourse that is grinding.
No one ever said running a meaningful mission for tangible gain was a grind
Grinding in essence can be fun. Grinding stuff that isn't fun is just a killer, and I believe that is the point in many of the sentiments in this thread. RNG is the other killer. To go through abcdefghij, then roll a dice to get something that is worse than what you started with is a hair tugging, leap towards self prescribing narcotics. So many threads about RNG hate ensued around engineers, yet it's here still, and just fuels the flames for the grind argument as having to go back and do abcdefghij for a 2nd / 3rd and 4th time IS a grind, and is NOT fun time and time again. Once is perfectly ok.
Sorry waffling again. Time for food. Looks like the restaurant is serving Thai food today.. eating all that will NOT be a grind lol
Actually guys I find myself being unable to distribute many more reps, for once I have found myself repping people for really well thought out arguments from both sides. Rare indeed for me!
Waff aside..
So if 'grind' is an integral part of ED, I think it's fair that I empty the though welling in my head:
Bring in a fun factor to grinding, and make these missions longer and harder, but for 10x the reward payouts. For me it's a moot point, but if I had been given one epic mission arc for reputation gain, and upon completion I WILL be ranked up.. that would feel like an mission endeavor that would appease the soul. Running hundreds (thousands) of small pointless, mindless missions adds zero for me to the game experience.
Empire rank for a trader: Hey Vorxian, listen we need someone gutsy enough to transport 400t of food and medicine to war torn xyz planet in abc system. The local militants will try to stop you, but that food will save thousands of starving imperial citizens. Do this for us, and your good deeds will no doubt bolster your reputation with the high emperor.
Does Elite Dangerous ranking really have to be made up of arbitrary mission after mission of something that feels pointless for 1% rank gain? Ofcourse that is grinding.
No one ever said running a meaningful mission for tangible gain was a grind
Grinding in essence can be fun. Grinding stuff that isn't fun is just a killer, and I believe that is the point in many of the sentiments in this thread. RNG is the other killer. To go through abcdefghij, then roll a dice to get something that is worse than what you started with is a hair tugging, leap towards self prescribing narcotics. So many threads about RNG hate ensued around engineers, yet it's here still, and just fuels the flames for the grind argument as having to go back and do abcdefghij for a 2nd / 3rd and 4th time IS a grind, and is NOT fun time and time again. Once is perfectly ok.
Sorry waffling again. Time for food. Looks like the restaurant is serving Thai food today.. eating all that will NOT be a grind lol
Wow, an entire thread about the obvious?
Question born of curiosity, and please don't take this wrong, i just genuinely have no idea.
if you don't like the "grind" or feel there is too little/no reward, then why do you play?
Loads of people come on the forums to moan and yet are still playing, is it just a way to vent?
ok, so that came out as 2 questions but if someone can genuinely answer that would be great.
if you don't like the "grind" or feel there is too little/no reward, then why do you play?
Loads of people come on the forums to moan and yet are still playing, is it just a way to vent?
ok, so that came out as 2 questions but if someone can genuinely answer that would be great.
That question has been asked many times but never really answered. Best I can tell it's an OCD although many will say their bieng constructive even if that means bieng destructive. but good luck getting a good answer.
As ive said before if some of these players dislike this game half as much as they say they do they would not be here so i assume there is some exageration involved also burnout and spite play there parts.
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If it's the case that they can't answer the question then there is absolutely no point in the argument. it's like someone saying no to talk with your mouth full whilst having their mouth full.....
It's the act of forced repetitive activity for little to no gain, in the hopes that gain will come eventually.
In my post above, grinding doesn't have to be dull at all. Just well laid out missions for tangible results will be enough. Above I said that people really don't mind doing abcdefghij to get xyz. What is reliably a great way to bore the skunk out of players is to then add RNG so after doing abcdefghij, you then have to do abcdefghij again for another dice roll, and, again abcdefghij and again abcdefghij to get something you should have got first time and moved on to the next set of missions that would allow you to work towards your next upgrade / goal. For me, having to do abcdefghij 12 times so I can upgrade my FSD just isn't exciting game play. Exciting game play for me is flying out into the void enjoying the vast galaxy. Unfortunately ED gave us the carrot of reducing the jumponium by giving FSD upgrades, yet at the same time, put in RNG and grind walls to make it dull as hell to get to.
It's just one example, but a big enough of one to warrant playing the grind game, so getting 'out there' and actually enjoying your activity more effectively is the goal. The goal is NOT the grind, the goal is not the actual engineer upgrade. The goal is getting out and absorbing the galaxy in a self-motivated exploration run. Unfortunately to enjoy the latter, you have a double grind with RNG preventing you from just doing it.
Not sure if I balls'd up my train of thought or not.. but meh I gave it a shot lol
Oh you will get answers just wait any time now, you may wish you never asked, I,ve been called names for asking that very question. And watch for the words forced or compelled that will give you the insight you seek.
Ps I like your analogy.
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The number one grind I have found so far is reading this thread! Seriously start at page 1 and see if you can make it to here or not?
I'm not planning to take either side of the argument, eg I won't say one set is wrong and one set is right, although I suspect I may appear to lean more in one direction as I type more. I will say that the thread seems pointless as in 2 different sets of people with differing opinions continuing to try and convince the opposite side they are right, when it is apparent that neither will budge.
Somebody posted from Wikipedia earlier. A lot of people like Wikipedia, while another set of people will complain about its inaccuracy. I'm going to be more oldschool and use a more 'definitive' source, which is the physical copy of the Complete Oxford English Dictionary which I have sat on my lap.
I can see 2 definitions of 'grind' in here which are appropriate to this discussion:
1.) Produce something laboriously (and definition of 'laborious' from the same source: requiring considerable time or effort).
- On this one I think it's very hard to argue that there is not grind in ED, if we wish to 'produce' something (ship, engineer upgrades, rank, etc) for our efforts.
2.) Oppressive and seemingly endless.
- This is the part where I can see the division. The game in nature is endless, but the 'oppressive' aspect is what can be argued from the opposing perspective is a choice, or a state of mind.
From my personal point of view there is grind involved in achieving just about any goal. For my own playstyle I do mix up activities specifically to prevent this from being a blockade to my enjoyment. And for me, I do still enjoy ED.
So although yes I could easily argue hey play like me, I know that won't work for everybody and I am not going to deny that the game has grind involved because as far as I am concerned it does.
I think it would certainly benefit the game to have more variety introduced, and I think it would benefit this thread more to focus the discussion on what possible improvements could be implemented, rather than 2 sides having a never ending argument over who is right and who is wrong.
I won't be posting in this thread again if it does remain an argument because I do not wish to get drawn into it.
And please note: All statements made above are simply 'in my opinion'!
I'm not planning to take either side of the argument, eg I won't say one set is wrong and one set is right, although I suspect I may appear to lean more in one direction as I type more. I will say that the thread seems pointless as in 2 different sets of people with differing opinions continuing to try and convince the opposite side they are right, when it is apparent that neither will budge.
Somebody posted from Wikipedia earlier. A lot of people like Wikipedia, while another set of people will complain about its inaccuracy. I'm going to be more oldschool and use a more 'definitive' source, which is the physical copy of the Complete Oxford English Dictionary which I have sat on my lap.
I can see 2 definitions of 'grind' in here which are appropriate to this discussion:
1.) Produce something laboriously (and definition of 'laborious' from the same source: requiring considerable time or effort).
- On this one I think it's very hard to argue that there is not grind in ED, if we wish to 'produce' something (ship, engineer upgrades, rank, etc) for our efforts.
2.) Oppressive and seemingly endless.
- This is the part where I can see the division. The game in nature is endless, but the 'oppressive' aspect is what can be argued from the opposing perspective is a choice, or a state of mind.
From my personal point of view there is grind involved in achieving just about any goal. For my own playstyle I do mix up activities specifically to prevent this from being a blockade to my enjoyment. And for me, I do still enjoy ED.
So although yes I could easily argue hey play like me, I know that won't work for everybody and I am not going to deny that the game has grind involved because as far as I am concerned it does.
I think it would certainly benefit the game to have more variety introduced, and I think it would benefit this thread more to focus the discussion on what possible improvements could be implemented, rather than 2 sides having a never ending argument over who is right and who is wrong.
I won't be posting in this thread again if it does remain an argument because I do not wish to get drawn into it.
And please note: All statements made above are simply 'in my opinion'!
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Now you say you mean no offense but then you go and call me Martin, the hell man!? It's Martian, MARTIAN!
I'm okay with differences in opinion, no offense taken from you dude. However others in this thread are unfortunately actively looking to offend. Anywho, back to our conversation.
Breaking up activities for some variety isn't the issue for me. That's fine, I'd like to think at least 95% of us playing ED do this anyway without needing to be told - the game is a giant open world full of things to do! The problem is not quantity. It's the quality.
When a fair share of the activities currently are just plain badly designed/implemented shifting between activities doesn't really fix things. There are activities that drive your progression in ED that feel like chores (an activity you don't like but have to do eventually if you want to see some tangible progress towards a goal) and there are things to do in ED that feel fun - a lot of player created/emergent content was created specifically to have fun.
Shifting between activities doesn't make the ones that feel like chores go away. What the player is essentially doing is paying for their fun with an equal amount of pain - that's what I find to be a problem with a lot of activities in ED. Bar a select few activities you can't have fun and make meaningful progress at the same time, it's either one or the other. And I think that needs improvement because I refuse to beleive that the devs have a desire for ED to stay like this.
Feel free to agree or disagree with this opinion.
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No problem with accepting that as long as people stop trying to tell me how I should be playing and that I'm crazy or lying because there's this phrase that says "there is no grind" - The OP's tone in a nutshell.
The question is can the OP accept this? Haven't heard from them since they dropped this thread and bailed.
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Well that's interesting because throughout this thread it seems to me plenty (but not all - just like the other side btw) of the people arguing that there is "no grinding" are ultra defensive as if they feel very threatened when someone disagrees with their opinion. If you want to see a "my way or the high way" reaction and dealing only in absolutes look no further than the OP my friend.
What came first the chicken or the egg? I'd argue that the OP's needlessly combatitive and overly aggressive tone didn't really foster an open and peacable approach to this discussion in the first place. It took a couple of polite and well informed posts from people arguing that there is a grind to take this thread out of the gutter in my opinion.
Imho the root cause of all the hubbub is that:
a) The OP sought to dehumanise people who disagree with him
and b) The fact that for some reason the mere word "grind" in the context of ED has illogicaly become regarded as a swear word by certain people on this forum.
That's my 2 space balls worth.
It's just one example, but a big enough of one to warrant playing the grind game, so getting 'out there' and actually enjoying your activity more effectively is the goal. The goal is NOT the grind, the goal is not the actual engineer upgrade. The goal is getting out and absorbing the galaxy in a self-motivated exploration run. Unfortunately to enjoy the latter, you have a double grind with RNG preventing you from just doing it.
Not sure if I balls'd up my train of thought or not.. but meh I gave it a shot lol
Thank you for you answer, and i can see where you're coming from. I've been doing the passenger missions and have found it very exciting to watch my Cr balance go up, usually by millions at a time.
Well if people can't answer properly (like Vorxian did) then they will just be ignored as they can't make a valid argument, they're just trying to pick a fight.
Also, could someone clarify what "RNG" means? sorry for the naivety =)
Hi there,
I grind for deferred reward.
RL example: When I was young I worked in a well-known fast food chain to save money to go backpacking across Africa. I didn't enjoy much of the work but I loved Africa.
ED example: When 2.1 came out I ground for months so as to be able to RNGineer-up in order to be able to continue with my preferred in-game activity of apex PvP, about which I am passionate. I didn't enjoy much of the mission board refreshing, dropping into USS, driving the buggy, honking, mining, or any of the other 'work' but I love PvP.
This is why I am an avid min/maxer. I have limited playtime so do everything I possibly can to spend the minimum possible % of my play time on the PvE activities that I consider 'grindy', in order to free up the maximum possible % of my play time for my preferred gameplay.
Good post! Hell yeah I agree 100%, Elite is a great game, I think that if you find Elite Boring means that you are Boring.. you have this open sandbox universe and can't find something to do? Really?
One of the player type that will not like the game is the people that only want to be like a Master Chief character where the WHOLE universe is waiting for you to save it, they will not like Elite! You are a small spec in the Elite Universe and it only cares about you when you start ranking up with factions and local systems. But you can never save the universe since it is so big and vast in the game in your influence is so small. Which I think is one of the masterful things about Elite. [up]