Any grind, is in your mind.

[-VR- Max Factor]

ED is built on repetitive mechanics. Arguing that isn't a grind and it's all in your head, is nonsense.

One can enjoy a repetitive action, some are actually rather good (but probably shouldn't be discussed here!) however just because you enjoy partaking in a repetitive action, doesn't not make it cease being repetitive.

Is driving a car to work every day repetitive? well yes. Can it be fun? Sometimes. Does it become a grind at times? Absolutely. Is that inherently wrong? Not exactly. It just is.

Frontier have built a game that has a huge amount of repetitive action. Some might call it a grind. Because it is a grind. That's a valid description for a repeated action with identical outcomes. So is repetition. Doesn't really matter what you want to call it. Frontier can, however, build mechanics where there is enough variety within that repetition so that it isn't so obviously a process loop, and that can create more dynamic play.

Saying the game has no grind, is like saying "this game isn't for you". That's observation (or being a , for the latter). One persons grind, is another's emergent content. Frontier's challenge is to add enough engaging action that those endless repetitive tasks have just enough life that most players can find something enjoyable in the process.

And that's one heck of a challenge. So yes. There is grind. There are repetitive tasks. Much of what is done actually relies on looped mechanics. This isn't intrinsically wrong. It just is. And Frontier can certainly provide more variet and dynamics to help increase the enjoyment and entertainment and life in those mechanics, providing a more tangible experience.

But saying there is no grind, is a conscious decision to either ignore the repetitive nature of the game, or attempting to rise above it. I'd like to believe it's the latter, but really it's probably the former. Many tasks now have far more dynamic outcomes, despite being quite linear repetition, and that's a good thing to celebrate.

But, Frontier have more work to do. And I'm really keen to encourage that. As we all should be.

Edit: oh, and multiple pages of people endlessly attacking each other, rather than responding to the points raised? That, for once, isn't grind - it's pointless futility.

ED is built on repetitive mechanics. Arguing that isn't a grind and it's all in your head, is nonsense.

One can enjoy a repetitive action, some are actually rather good (but probably shouldn't be discussed here!) however just because you enjoy partaking in a repetitive action, doesn't not make it cease being repetitive.

Is driving a car to work every day repetitive? well yes. Can it be fun? Sometimes. Does it become a grind at times? Absolutely. Is that inherently wrong? Not exactly. It just is.

Frontier have built a game that has a huge amount of repetitive action. Some might call it a grind. Because it is a grind. That's a valid description for a repeated action with identical outcomes. So is repetition. Doesn't really matter what you want to call it. Frontier can, however, build mechanics where there is enough variety within that repetition so that it isn't so obviously a process loop, and that can create more dynamic play.

Saying the game has no grind, is like saying "this game isn't for you". That's observation (or being a , for the latter). One persons grind, is another's emergent content. Frontier's challenge is to add enough engaging action that those endless repetitive tasks have just enough life that most players can find something enjoyable in the process.

And that's one heck of a challenge. So yes. There is grind. There are repetitive tasks. Much of what is done actually relies on looped mechanics. This isn't intrinsically wrong. It just is. And Frontier can certainly provide more variet and dynamics to help increase the enjoyment and entertainment and life in those mechanics, providing a more tangible experience.

But saying there is no grind, is a conscious decision to either ignore the repetitive nature of the game, or attempting to rise above it. I'd like to believe it's the latter, but really it's probably the former. Many tasks now have far more dynamic outcomes, despite being quite linear repetition, and that's a good thing to celebrate.

But, Frontier have more work to do. And I'm really keen to encourage that. As we all should be.

Edit: oh, and multiple pages of people endlessly attacking each other, rather than responding to the points raised? That, for once, isn't grind - it's pointless futility.

Here is the definition of grinding:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....id=3025805&amp=true?client=ms-android-samsung

We do not have to grind for anything in the game unless you fixate on it. Just doing repatative tasks is not grinding. Grinding is a task you have to do again and again and again to access a feature in the game.

People say ranking up in a major power is a grind, it can be, all depends on your approach.

The only part of the game that I see as an actual grind is Power Play. The main reason why I stay no where near that part of the game.

What is missing from the game is compelling reasons why we do stuff in the game. I was hoping power play would include that, but alas it didn't.

The main feature/activities in the game:
Trading
Bounty Hunting
Mining
Ships
PowerPlay
Exploring
Missions
Pirateering
Smuggling

The only one in that group that requires any kind of grind is PowerPlay because you have to do the same repatative tasks to get to the next grade or level or objective.

 

[Envious]

Yup, I think this is the point that some players get hung up on. In Elite Dangerous, you aren't the Savior Of Your Race; you aren't anyone special, really, in a vast and uncaring galaxy. Just a speck.

That's what Eve Online says as well, that you are just a cog in a machine but I never felt bored getting money in it like when I did 36 delivery missions for 30k credits in a Sidewinder in Elite because in Eve you can group with other players and share rewards, even mining becomes interesting when you are doing it with others for something greater than you, since 95% of ships are player made.

 

[Bran Tse Mallory]

LOL I love the way you assume I grind. My playstyle is just like yours but I'm not about to blow smoke up my     and go along with a bad argument. Some devs DO sit around designing games to be grindy - WTH? Now you don't even know that? 33 years "In the industry" and sorry, but I'm not convinced of your credentials. You don't know what grind is and you don't know that devs don't make grindy games lol - (Wow, so much grinding! lol)

Come on Bran, surely you can see, not from your perspective, that ED has massive grind if you want to progress at a resepctable rate? Do you think it should take a year to buy a new ship and A grade it? How long is reasonable for you to get top Fed rank?

How do you powerplay and not grind?

The assumption is logical as you are arguing that the game is just a grind fest.

So you play like I do, just playing whatever takes your fancy that play session - and yet here you are arguing that the game is grindy like it's all you do, hence the above logical assumption.

Yes devs in the mobile/casual sector do this creating pay walls etc. I do not work for these companies, never have, never will.

Not convinced by my credentials - wasn't aware that I'd given you any as per forum rules, no personal information plus I am under contract which prohibits this. Do I care that you doubt me? Not in the slightest especially considering that we've already established that you don't grind, you just argue that its all the game has... Your credentials in this argument just flew out of the window!

If a player feels they have to have a clipper within a week of getting the game then I suggest that any MMO is not for them. One of the most common calls in games claiming to be an MMO is that the contant can be rushed through far to quickly - Except Elite is different, if you want to get the clipper yes you will end up doing the same tasks over and over but once more, the player choose that path.

How long is reasonable to get top Fed rank - loaded question because this is a game - in reality it would take an entire career to make top rank but you can do it in a much shorter time frame in the game. Also I't not a question that i can really answer as I do not even care about the faction rankings as they hold no reward for me - might do for you and others in which case ask them.

Powerplay - simple, I don't. I'm an explorer, I spend months out in the black scanning planets, eco jumping to various nebula (I don't even care about getting long range jump engines, I might miss something). A lot of players think exploration in Elite is the most boring thing ever to do, they call it a grind, I call it fun and relaxing... As others have tried to tell you, grind is subjective - I suggest you learn to understand and accept this.

 

[Deadspin]

Nothing "rhetorical" about the fallacy he wrote chum and ad hominem implies I attacked Bran personally. I did nothing of the sort, I voiced my displeasure at his comment and my disappointment that it came form him by saying I assumed he knew better. If anything I am saying I hold Bran to higher standards than every other forum Tom, , and Francesca.

I am allowed to cherry pick whatever I want, especially cherries! If you are seeking a refute to Bran's reasoning from me then look no further than all of my other posts in this thread. I see no reason in repeating myself. Finally I would suggest you look up the definitions for "rhetorical" and "ad hominem". Peace and love baby

I do believe he directed the reply you are replying to at Bran, not you.

Once again, please inform me of what activity in life or in games does not require "grinding" to achieve mastery.

Huge difference between "life" and a "video game" there bub. One is unavoidable while the other is meant to be a form of entertainment.

So lets get something straight here:

I'm not asking for the game mechanics to be changed.
I'm not whining about the grind existing.
I'm just arguing that it does indeed exist within the game, regardless of whether or not the game is being played "wrong" from whatever perspective you have.

 

[Martian Successor]

I do believe he directed the reply you are replying to at Bran, not you.

He quoted only me when replying so I assumed he was directing his reply at me. I'm pretty sure he was addressing me but I'm happy to be proven wrong.

 

[Deadspin]

He quoted only me when replying so I assumed he was directing his reply at me. I'm pretty sure he was addressing me but I'm happy to be proven wrong.

Whoops.

In my defense I was half skimming, half reading all of the comments, only in an effort to catch up on what transpired since I went home yesterday.

 

[Vorxian]

How long is reasonable to get top Fed rank - loaded question because this is a game - in reality it would take an entire career to make top rank but you can do it in a much shorter time frame in the game. Also I't not a question that i can really answer as I do not even care about the faction rankings as they hold no reward for me - might do for you and others in which case ask them.

That was a loaded question indeed. I personally think the question should be:

How many interesting and fun ways are available to quickly gain rank in federation, and how long will it take to progress through all that content?

 

[Martian Successor]

Whoops.

In my defense I was half skimming, half reading all of the comments, only in an effort to catch up on what transpired since I went home yesterday.

No worries, let me catch you up on what you missed:

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

[Bran Tse Mallory]

No worries, let me catch you up on what you missed:

The forums needs more of these catch up posts! A totally accurate depiction of whats gone on.

 

[DaveB]

Err.....If you check the server stats (You can if you know where to look) there has been a steady decline in the number of players on line. Short spikes after each release, but a downward trend nevertheless.

Cite your source directly please. "You can if you know where to look" is functionally equivalent to "I have a super-secret way to see this and you just have to believe me"... not exactly convincing and certainly no more so than my own subjective observation that I've seen no appreciable falloff in the rate at which I encounter other players when I'm in a mode that allows it.

Also check the financial statements for FD the revenue for ED game purchases has dropped.

Those financial statements leave me with still a positive view of the future of the company and the game. If you think otherwise, sell me a put. I'll gladly increase my long position in FD and make money off your short view at the same time.

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He quoted only me when replying so I assumed he was directing his reply at me. I'm pretty sure he was addressing me but I'm happy to be proven wrong.

I was indeed addressing you, and the only reason I didn't continue the discussion is that you clearly missed my point and there was no merit in continuing to talk at cross-purposes. Besides, anyone who claims they can cherry-pick one piece of somebodies opinion whenever they want in order to argue against the entirety of what they said is somebody against whom rational argument holds no sway.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

My mind was ground down in the mines long ago...

 

[Martian Successor]

I was indeed addressing you, and the only reason I didn't continue the discussion is that you clearly missed my point and there was no merit in continuing to talk at cross-purposes. Besides, anyone who claims they can cherry-pick one piece of somebodies opinion whenever they want in order to argue against the entirety of what they said is somebody against whom rational argument holds no sway.

In other words you couldn't bring up a valid argument to refute me and probably still can't.

I'm perfectly open to rational arguments with open minded individuals but I'll be damned if I'm going to converse with someone who starts off by making false accussations at me because they forgot to look up the definitions of the terms they use. I already told you my previous posts addressed Bran's opinions about the game and I have no interest in repeating myself to people who can't be asked to go and read them, you seem to have conveniently ignored that part of my post. Talk about cherry picking, you are quite guilty of it yourself.

Why aren't you giving Bran such a hard time instead for his ad hominem comments towards an entire generation and playerbase? Those particular comments had nothing to do with the game and more to do with a personal stereotypical jibe at an entire group of people.

 

[Deadspin]

Now now..

..Elite Dangerous has grind built into it.

Do I need to create a poll?

 

[jasonbarron]

The only thing I have left to say on this particular topic is: wow, guys. Really? Haven't you all figured out the obvious yet? That there is no "right" or "wrong" in this debate?

Honestly, I really wish Fdev would reintroduce the original 2.1 NPC's, or maybe the idea of Instant Transfer, so we could have something else to argue about.

 

[Martian Successor]

Now now..

..Elite Dangerous has grind built into it.

Do I need to create a poll?

Only if you call it, "Any poll is in your mole"

 

[Deadspin]

The only thing I have left to say on this particular topic is: wow, guys. Really? Haven't you all figured out the obvious yet? That there is no "right" or "wrong" in this debate?

Honestly, I really wish Fdev would reintroduce the original 2.1 NPC's, or maybe the idea of Instant Transfer, so we could have something else to argue about.

Ihhmeeershuun... <3

And we've argued for 28 pages. I think that's a pretty good accomplishment for a debate with no real right or wrong answer.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Only if you call it, "Any poll is in your mole"

I can't give you any more rep

 

[jasonbarron]

Ihhmeeershuun... <3

And we've argued for 28 pages. I think that's a pretty good accomplishment for a debate with no real right or wrong answer.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -



I can't give you any more rep

All 28 pages proves is how bored we all are

Edit: and just noticed the name of your ship. Good one!

 

[Martian Successor]

28 pages in and still no sign from the OP to join in on their own thread.

Maybe he's doing a Commander Data:

[video=youtube;j5CETMV4nz0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5CETMV4nz0&app=desktop[/video]

 

[Bran Tse Mallory]

All 28 pages proves is how bored we all are

Slow days in work

 

[Martian Successor]

I can't give you any more rep

That's okay, I take delayed rep as well as instant