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peppi

peppi
and ofcourse they brake the game AGAIN !!!!!!!!!
OMG when are these guys gonna learn to do something right grrrrrrrrrrrrr
 

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IndigoWyrd said:
While piracy IS a valid career, every bit as valid as Assassin*, these are still illegal activities in terms of the game’s limited judicial system.
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I didn't say they weren't illegal. I just said you can't solve a metagame issue like "kicking over other players sandcastles" within the context of the game world.
Fake Newts said:
When I quoted your text it was tunnel-vision on that single sentence which seemed to encompass all aggressive player action
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Maybe you should read the whole post and consider it in the context of the discussion that was being had and not immediately man the barricades to defend yourself against an accusation I didn't level. Just a thought. :V
 

Skip Rockbounder

Skip Rockbounder
Nah... Can't see myself drifting any more money Frontier Developments way, t'was all over for me with the Explorers update, the good news is the price of Digestive biscuits could fall some 3% this summer! :)
 

Stealthie

Stealthie
Fake Newts said:
On basic principle I fully agree with your post, but the idea that ganking is simply the result of a sadistic drive is false, a lot of the time people are just trying to find scraps of adrenaline in what is essentially a fairly incredibly dry multiplayer experience. There may be a lot of selfishness at times, but actively sadistic isn't accurate in a lot of cases. At CGs generally people are just looking for some kind of interaction, prodding other players and trying to get them to fight back... sometimes they do and it's fun, sometimes they wake out, which is fine, sometimes they log off, which is pathetic. What's disappointing is that the open environment doesn't provide any groundwork, context or structure for these interactions so you just get a lot of "idle hands". The game has no meaningful way to interact with other people that doesn't involve shooting them, but also has no structure or incentives for doing so.
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You'd have a point if shooting other players was meaningful.

As it is, the current predilection for pew-pew seems to demonstrate a rather dull-witted attitude by those who can't see (or think) beyond their trigger finger.

Simple fact is that people who get their jollies from frivolous (and often unchallenged) pew-pew have no idea WHAT their target is doing, in-game, so they have no idea if doing something other than exploding them would be more enjoyable.

But hey, pew-pew, pretty explosion, herp-derp. :rolleyes:
 

Fake Newts

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Stealthie said:
You'd have a point if shooting other players was meaningful.
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I just said it wasn't meaningful, that was pretty much the whole point of that post...

It's meaningless and that's a problem because it's the only way you can interact with other players beyond typing "o7" into the chat, which we can all do in here for free.

o7
 

Stealthie

Stealthie
Fake Newts said:
I just said it wasn't meaningful, that was pretty much the whole point of that post...

It's meaningless and that's a problem because it's the only way you can interact with other players beyond typing "o7" into the chat, which we can all do in here for free.

o7
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You said "the game has no meaningful way to interact with other people that doesn't involve shooting them"

99.9% of the time, shooting other people isn't meaningful either.
 

Fake Newts

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Stealthie said:
You said "the game has no meaningful way to interact with other people that doesn't involve shooting them"

99.9% of the time, shooting other people isn't meaningful either.
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I said

"The game has no meaningful way to interact with other people that doesn't involve shooting them, but also has no structure or incentives for doing so."

The last part of the sentence was important but perhaps unclear. I meant the lack of meaningful consequences, stakes or structure is a problem. I'm agreeing with you that shooting people is meaningless. It sucks. People still do it because, first, the game is heavily geared towards combat, it's one of the central pillars of the title and has the highest skill ceiling, and secondly because there are practically no other means in game to directly interact with other players - everything else is parallel only, repetitive PvE in company, which isn't drastically changing the experience for anyone the majority of the time.
 
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Stealthie

Stealthie
Fake Newts said:
I said

"The game has no meaningful way to interact with other people that doesn't involve shooting them, but also has no structure or incentives for doing so."

The last part of the sentence was important but perhaps unclear. I meant the lack of meaningful consequences, stakes or structure is a problem. I'm agreeing with you that shooting people is meaningless. It sucks. People still do it because, first, the game is heavily geared towards combat, it's one of the central pillars of the title and has the highest skill ceiling, and secondly because there are practically no other means in game to directly interact with other players - everything else is parallel only, repetitive PvE in company, which isn't drastically changing the experience for anyone the majority of the time.
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Fair enough. (y)

At the moment I've genuinely reached a point where the ratio between seeing a hollow blob on my scanner and being interdicted and shot at is, literally, 1:1 and it's becoming boring.

I could understand it if there was some strategic need for it but, TBH, this is probably where the allusions to "sadism" come in bacause it's more like a bored kid pulling the legs off spiders because they can't think of anything else to do.
 
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Fake Newts

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Stealthie said:
Fair enough. (y)

At the moment I've genuinely reached a point where the ratio between seeing a hollow blob on my scanner and being interdicted and shot at is, literally, 1:1 and it's becoming boring.

I could understand it if there was some strategic need for it but, TBH, this is probably where the allusions to "sadism" come in bacause it's more like a bored kid pulling the legs off spiders because they can't think of anything else to do.
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Yeah I mean, basically I think we agree. The boredom thing is certainly a factor. Full disclosure, Elite is probably first game I've ever ganked anyone in (as in killed without a contextual reason in this case, rather than specifically "in a gang" or seal clubbing) and I genuinely did so out of sheer frustration - there is no context or outlet. The best you can do if you like the (mechanically substantial) pew-pew aspects of the game is try to find someone like-minded and shoot them, but the game and its networking do not make that easy - presenting you with both a heavy time investment to find a good fight, and the possibility that said fight will end up with a transaction server error for your trouble.

Willing to bet that if PvP was incentivised by the game, rather than sidelined, a lot of PK complaints would dry up. Think pvp hotspots for powerplay, incentives for players to join in combat zones in open, functional pvp bounty hunting, suddenly there would be an outlet for thousands of players who hitherto had no end-game focus. Low-tier gankers would still gank sure, but a more manageable number would. Player-imposed structure like tournaments and San Tu exist despite the game's mechanics rather than thanks to them, and rely 100% on Discord as an organisational tool.

This isn't a "just fix PvP!" rant, the issue is also with the PvE game... "you can all haul biowaste together across several instances with wing missions" is not really functional multiplayer content so offering that as a viable alternative won't fly for a lot of people. AX combat is the closest it gets, simply because it involves healthpools high enough to actually make cooperation desirable.

The long winded point I was, I think, originally getting at is this: addressing some of the root causes of ganking by providing outlets for players would probably be a lot more successful in the long run than futile escalations in punitive measures that provably don't work.
 
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Fake Newts said:
The long winded point I was, I think, originally getting at is this: addressing some of the root causes of ganking by providing outlets for players would probably be a lot more successful in the long run than futile escalations in punitive measures that provably don't work.
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Yeah, an actual shooting war between superpowers would probably do a lot more to cut down on ganking than any amount of crime and punishment reworks. Could give naval ranks some purpose too. :V
 
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