Are fleet carriers not for me? How did you make it through the sludge?

Now that things are settled and landed (from frontiers perspective anyway), taking a look at what we're going to get.. just wondering what mental gymnastics people have used to find fleet carriers inspiring even though the major drags.

We have to deal with:
  • Psychological upkeep.
  • Fuel
  • Jump (carrier ship transfer) delays.
  • They're an empty husk, too much from regular stations missing so it "feels" missing, mission boards, passenger lounges. They're not ships certainly so you can't pretend that either.

All these more times than not crushes any utility from them.
  • Having UC out of the bubble... its nice but who cares. The fact that we're trained not to go back and fondle all the systems we've stripmined after the first time waters it down.
  • Using an eagle out of the bubble.. maybe.
  • Ship transfer box in the bubble.. this is nice actually. Having your carrier come pick you up instead of flying back to where you were when being random is pretty cool. You can almost avoid jumping...

Its just the drag from the first mentioned costs is immense. Its so real that replaces the first thing that comes to mind with carriers every time. Especially with the upkeep written on the front page so boldly at the top.

So what tricks do you use for lipsticking this one, or should i just go with the 50 / 50 voice and give up?
 
Of course when you think about it rationally you can find an acceptable solution, but at the same time, the fact that you have to adds tangible unpleasantness. That's how it is im sure for everyone.

Yeah if you're still playing the game in the bubble and are planning to have access to credit exploits okay its also different.
Im in colonia, there are no exploits. Im broke and carrier upkeep would be easy for me
 
Now that things are settled and landed (from frontiers perspective anyway), taking a look at what we're going to get.. just wondering what mental gymnastics people have used to find fleet carriers inspiring even though the major drags.

We have to deal with:
  • Psychological upkeep.
  • Fuel
  • Jump (carrier ship transfer) delays.
  • They're an empty husk, too much from regular stations missing so it "feels" missing, mission boards, passenger lounges. They're not ships certainly so you can't pretend that either.
I don't really agree with passive upkeep, would much have preferred it cost a lot to purchase and jump, that said, with upkeep between 7 and 12 million a week, it wouldn't be a big deal with the way credits flow nowadays, can comfortably get that in an hours play.

I agree with the idea that they are stations but missing a few key elements. Reckon it's going to end up an edge case needing refuel, repair and restock if you still need to go to stations to pick up and hand in missions.

All these more times than not crushes any utility from them.
  • Having UC out of the bubble... its nice but who cares. The fact that we're trained not to go back and fondle all the systems we've stripmined after the first time waters it down.
  • Using an eagle out of the bubble.. maybe.
  • Ship transfer box in the bubble.. this is nice actually. Having your carrier come pick you up instead of flying back to where you were when being random is pretty cool. You can almost avoid jumping...

Its just the drag from the first mentioned costs is immense. Its so real that replaces the first thing that comes to mind with carriers every time. Especially with the upkeep written on the front page so boldly at the top.

So what tricks do you use for lipsticking this one, or should i just go with the 50 / 50 voice and give up?
So I don't really think those things crush any utility, but I'm not convinced that there's much utility there unless you regularly play with others and want a centralized base - but then stations can fulfill that role just as easily.

My idea for owning a carrier (and I have more than enough credits) was so that I could go with a bunch of specialized ships wherever I wanted, park myself up and take advantage of being somewhere different. Trouble is, when I tried it out in the second beta, I realized that there wasn't really any point in going to a different system as I'd just be doing the same stuff anyway (was mightily let down to find that pirate lords in the Empire also use Federal Corvettes), and since I use missions to drive my play (when I'm not exploring or engineering) the lack of a mission board means I would need to be in the station all the time accepting them and handing them in.

I'm sure people will buy them and use them, but after a couple of days in the beta I just abandoned mine - I was going to decomission it, but couldn't find a vacant slot in an administration system :oops:. Shame really, but I just cannot see it as being a must have thing for the way I play at least.
 
A decent massacre mission will get you a solid fortnight of upkeep on a decently-outfitted carrier. Go start a war.

In fact, a couple of my ships were put together with the goal of getting a decent operational range so I could go do stuff a long way from my base and wouldn't be left out when some buddies 200ly away are like "hey, we're doing a wing mission, want in?" - with a carrier, those sorts of compromises wouldn't be needed provided I've got 15 minutes notice. There'll still be a place for those ships, I just won't have to go as crazy on them. Might swap the lightweight armour out for HD so they can cope with phasing better.
 
So here are my thoughts:
  • Upkeep: I might buy a stock carrier just for myself because I can. Dump 1b into the account and I will still have enough left to by 5 more carrier and upkeep them for another 4 years. So money isn't an issue. What irks me though is the fact that I am paying a crew to stand around do nothing. That's right. Nothing! They are not repairing it, they are not refueling it, they are not moving fuel from the storage to the depot, they are doing NOTHING! But it costs me 5 million a week.
  • Fuel: I haven't mind grindonium in beta, only read reports of others and they mine at about 200t/h. So one full fuel tank is about 5 hours of just fuel mining. Want to fill up the cargo hold too? Give up on life! Or maybe I could get the crew to do that for me, you know, the ones I'm paying 5m a week... nvm!
  • Jumping: One jump at a time, 15 mins wait to jump. No route plotting. Seriously? I got a crew who I'm paying 5m/week to assist me to fly this darn thing!
  • hull wear and tear: costs me another 100k per jump. Water off a duck's back when you can afford one of these ducks, you got a crew who looks after your carrier... oh wait, no they don't!
  • the crew: I can swap their portraits. Now that's helpful. Could I just fire their Arx and not have one of them? I'm doing everything myself here anyway! Would save me 5m/week.

Additional services:
UC: I'm paying 1.5m/week for what again? For the 45m Antenna that I got to put on the roof?
Shipyard: Nope... nope nope nope. Not taking on more baggage.
Outfitting: I'm meant to buy packs of E rated junk for sale? Or B and C rated? At least give me 100 extra items storage or so, then it would make sense to have that on board and pay for it weekly.

So in short: Might buy one because I can, transfer my fleet over and have my mobile base to come where I'm going. Probably because I can afford it and because I can. Will I be happy with it? To quote a post I read on here: I might be.. in my garage... in my 5b garage.. staring at the garage wall!
 
Now that things are settled and landed (from frontiers perspective anyway), taking a look at what we're going to get.. just wondering what mental gymnastics people have used to find fleet carriers inspiring even though the major drags.

We have to deal with:
  • Psychological upkeep.
  • Fuel
  • Jump (carrier ship transfer) delays.
  • They're an empty husk, too much from regular stations missing so it "feels" missing, mission boards, passenger lounges. They're not ships certainly so you can't pretend that either.

All these more times than not crushes any utility from them.
  • Having UC out of the bubble... its nice but who cares. The fact that we're trained not to go back and fondle all the systems we've stripmined after the first time waters it down.
  • Using an eagle out of the bubble.. maybe.
  • Ship transfer box in the bubble.. this is nice actually. Having your carrier come pick you up instead of flying back to where you were when being random is pretty cool. You can almost avoid jumping...

Its just the drag from the first mentioned costs is immense. Its so real that replaces the first thing that comes to mind with carriers every time. Especially with the upkeep written on the front page so boldly at the top.

So what tricks do you use for lipsticking this one, or should i just go with the 50 / 50 voice and give up?
Give up. :)
 
For me there's two things carriers offer:

1. a base for all my stuff without having to pick a home system. It's also mobile.
2. a way to do stuff in a group and offer people a lift to faraway places.

Going all the way to the core as a passenger was kinda intriguing.

I kinda agree on the rest. Yes, also on the psychological upkeep thing. I gladly pay for my carrier, but our assets shouldn't be on a timer when not playing.
 
Now that things are settled and landed (from frontiers perspective anyway), taking a look at what we're going to get.. just wondering what mental gymnastics people have used to find fleet carriers inspiring even though the major drags.
Whether it's a drag or not is subjective, so let's have a look at what you have to say.

We have to deal with:
  • Psychological upkeep.
Hmm, only if you have a psychological problem I would think.

Yup, mine or buy it. Could do with a few more options.

  • Jump (carrier ship transfer) delays.
What delay? Does your FC take longer then fifteen minutes to jump for you?

  • They're an empty husk, too much from regular stations missing so it "feels" missing, mission boards, passenger lounges. They're not ships certainly so you can't pretend that either.
Well, most seemed to want just a carrier to move all their ships around, so it seems we have far more then what was wanted by some.

As to them being ship, of course not, they're fleet carriers. Thought that was obvious.

All these more times than not crushes any utility from them.
Really, surely that's subjective. What kind of utility were you looking for?

  • Having UC out of the bubble... its nice but who cares. The fact that we're trained not to go back and fondle all the systems we've stripmined after the first time waters it down.
What the hell does this mean?

  • Using an eagle out of the bubble.. maybe.
Yup, should be fun.

  • Ship transfer box in the bubble.. this is nice actually. Having your carrier come pick you up instead of flying back to where you were when being random is pretty cool. You can almost avoid jumping...
Not sure I'm getting it.

Its just the drag from the first mentioned costs is immense. Its so real that replaces the first thing that comes to mind with carriers every time. Especially with the upkeep written on the front page so boldly at the top.
I don't see the costs or the upkeep a drag, so not an issue for me there.

So what tricks do you use for lipsticking this one, or should i just go with the 50 / 50 voice and give up?
I don't use any lipstick, I see what's there, decide if I can get some interesting and fun use out of it and then decide if I will buy one at some stage. The probable answer is yes. How much it costs in the pretend money we get in-game really doesn't bother me in the slightest.
 
So here are my thoughts:
  • [etc., etc, etc.]
The crew is likely a lot larger than you think, and they not only need salaries, they also need daily meals, off-shift (I assume at least (3) 8-hr or (4) 6-hour shifts) entertainment, medical support (very specialized crew -- pricey! -- for the med bays), waste disposal arrangements (yeah, some are just janitors, but they are also recycling specialists, not just scutters), life support departments (we all breathe the same air after all), materials synthesis facilities (because those repairs they make don't use duct tape and bailing wire and spit), programming and networking teams, computer maintenance shops, and likely a lot more. Being the Commander, what you don't see (and you shouldn't need to, you should be quite comfortable taking it all for granted) is the well-paid chain of command cascading down from your high seat that makes sure that when you say "Jump!" that big bucket just says "How far?" and then obeys. The ongoing expenses and additional fees are used to keep all this running shipshape and Bristol fashion, with the many departments having their own budgeting processes (plus supercargoes and accountants to keep the numbers straight) that you rightly will never touch except in abstract. What you also do not see (being busy mining or being a merchanter or hunting pirates or being a pirate, you know, Commander stuff) is the activity once the carrier makes port in the bubble close enough to some sort of civilization for the crew to get a little shore leave, haggle with the locals for choice foodstuffs and liquor, restock the necessities each of the departments can't function without, and maybe even get laid.

Now I gotta admit being directly privy to all that would be one helluva cool immersion experience, but, we ain't even got space legs yet! So for now, just imagine...
 
Not sure I'm getting it.
Try it. Just random around the bubble, and when its getting close to going, get your carrier to come pick you up instead of going back. I know you're all over thinking ahead so confident the scenario will be easy. At least the first time it brings a big grin. You then decide where you're going next and log off just like with ship transfer. Quite fun.
 
Try it. Just random around the bubble, and when its getting close to going, get your carrier to come pick you up instead of going back. I know you're all over thinking ahead so confident the scenario will be easy. At least the first time it brings a big grin. You then decide where you're going next and log off just like with ship transfer. Quite fun.
I've never logged off for ship transfer and I doubt I'll log off for my fleet carrier. I suspect I will manage it better then that. Seems people are struggling with that side of things.

But it seems pretty straight forward to me.
 
Now that things are settled and landed (from frontiers perspective anyway), taking a look at what we're going to get.. just wondering what mental gymnastics people have used to find fleet carriers inspiring even though the major drags.

We have to deal with:
  • Psychological upkeep.
  • Fuel
  • Jump (carrier ship transfer) delays.
  • They're an empty husk, too much from regular stations missing so it "feels" missing, mission boards, passenger lounges. They're not ships certainly so you can't pretend that either.

All these more times than not crushes any utility from them.
  • Having UC out of the bubble... its nice but who cares. The fact that we're trained not to go back and fondle all the systems we've stripmined after the first time waters it down.
  • Using an eagle out of the bubble.. maybe.
  • Ship transfer box in the bubble.. this is nice actually. Having your carrier come pick you up instead of flying back to where you were when being random is pretty cool. You can almost avoid jumping...

Its just the drag from the first mentioned costs is immense. Its so real that replaces the first thing that comes to mind with carriers every time. Especially with the upkeep written on the front page so boldly at the top.

So what tricks do you use for lipsticking this one, or should i just go with the 50 / 50 voice and give up?
hey so I thought I'd give this an honest response, not as someone making good out of a bad situation, but someone who is both comfortable with the aspects you mentioned, and has faith in FDev.

So let's talk about
Psychological upkeep - It doesn't actually weigh on me at all. I feel no more pressured to keep playing the game at the idea of upkeep than I do normally. I fully anticipate dropping the majority of my funds into the carrier and having the now unfamiliar and exciting experience of only having 2-3 rebuys at a time. The feeling of risk is back, even if it's only an illusion.

Fuel - I don't see the problem. I can either drop money on a T9 full of tritium in a refinery station, or spend an hour doing missile mining at a quiet hotspot. To me that's preferable to LTD laser mining in Borann, it's more fun, harder, and satisfying. If I need to take the entire fleet to colonia because I'm sick of the bubble's politics and nonsense, or even flat out into the black, I know I can either go at a chill pace over several months of mixed exploring and mining, or I can just spend a pretty penny to overload my storage with tritium. Not a big deal, though I'd like to see more variety in acqusition methods (Piracy! Megaship heists! This one seems like it could be easy!).

Jump delays - feels about right. I don't tend to move my focus of play very often (maybe once a week? twice sometimes) depending on what I'm up to. I can take a smaller ship with a good jump range to my desired destination and get started whilst the rest of the fleet takes its time to get there. As a result, I can get started on my activity earlier than I can without a carrier, and then swap over to a lower-jump range specialist ship once the carrier arrives. Either I can get there ahead of the carrier and start work, or the carrier is quicker than the ship because the ship isn't designed for jump range - in which case the carrier is more convenient. Right now I'm finding the carrier arrives slightly after me - factoring in supercruise - and that's about right. It's a chonker of a megaship and shouldn't be faster than a DBX / Phantom.

...missing so it "feels" missing, mission boards, passenger lounges - Missions & passengers come from the presence of a minor faction, and the interaction between different systems. Sure I'd like the ability to have mega-missions, missions FOR a megaship to undertake and me as a smaller ship to support / handle scenarios to ensure success. That's a very cool idea and deserves a content patch of its own. If FDev revisit the support-megaships then they'd be a perfect way for a passive megaship asset to generate income and gameplay.
Player set missions would make more sense on a fixed location installation, such as a player owned base. I don't find their absense from a carrier that's not a part of the BGS and doesn't associate with minor factions to be an egregious absence.

Having UC out of the bubble... its nice but who cares.
Well with UC allowing you to generate credits from nothing whilst away from civilisation, this means that upkeep can be satisfied in any location in the galaxy. Deep Space explorers no longer ever need to return to a settled star system ever again. They and I care about that, living the life of a space hermit is always been attractive.

The fact that we're trained not to go back and fondle all the systems we've stripmined after the first time waters it down.
I'm looking forward to finding a nice sector of the galaxy, parking the carrier and exploring. If I find a pretty ringed ELW or WW with icy rings, in a nebula or w/e - you better believe I'll bring the carrier over for some downtime, hook up a couple hundred tonnes of tritium (150T = 500LY if you're running light weight) in 90 minutes (at my current rates, I could probably optimise it). Of course, this only applies outside of the bubble, and I'm not in a rush to get anywhere. If I need to rush, I'll take a high jump-range ship and go where I need to go, either go back later, or let it catch up over time (do wish we could refill the depot remotely)


Ship transfer box in the bubble.. this is nice actually. Having your carrier come pick you up instead of flying back to where you were when being random is pretty cool. You can almost avoid jumping...
Absolutely! My current loop is to pick up one of my fastest ships from Shinrarta, or a mid-range ship that can do the job well enough, and go to a target station, summon the specialist ship to me for however many hundreds of thousands or millions, and then get started until I get the notification that its arrived. The carrier is almost always faster than Galactic Logistics' ship transfer, and has the added benefit of bringing everything to where I need it to be, including restock and repair, which isn't always available around the body I'm working (for CZs and Mining for example)

should i just go with the 50 / 50 voice and give up?

Give the Beta a try and find out if you find the convenience of carriers something you'd like. It sounds like you're not at the point of the game where credits don't matter to you yet. When you're at the point where you have more than you know what to do with and you stop caring about rebuys (33 million for my cutter is one of the ~180 rebuys I have available.) then that's the point in the game where FDev wants you to consider a carrier. If you think they won't be fun, don't get one.

This game is best when you play it at your own speed and do the things you want to do.
don't force yourself to mine diamonds if you don't like it, don't force yourself to buy a carrier if you don't have a use-case in mind already.


Everyone is different and wants to do different things in the game. If there's not enough in the game at the moment to occupy your interest then carriers aren't going to change that. They're a convenience luxury item, they don't really add any new gameplay to the game, and since we're still in the Beyond era of "making the current game better and not making new half-baked new content that the players don't like" then it's a good fit.

Give OA's video a view, it's got a list of all the major adds that FDev wanted to add to the game back when it was released, and there's some good stuff in that list :)
 
....

This game is best when you play it at your own speed and do the things you want to do.
don't force yourself to mine diamonds if you don't like it, don't force yourself to buy a carrier if you don't have a use-case in mind already.

...
Don't use engineers and peashoot other players.
Don't use engineers and peashoot the AI.
I'm sure we'll find something you better grind for carriers too soon enough.
 
Don't use engineers and peashoot other players.
Don't use engineers and peashoot the AI.
I'm sure we'll find something you better grind for carriers too soon enough.
I'm really glad FDev reworked engineers from their previous incarnation, constant forward progress is much better than rolling the dice and maybe getting a worse module than you have at the moment. Pinned blueprints, material traders, and remote engineering workshops are amazing QOL improvements and makes Engineers much closer to their stated intent of being able to upgrade your ship comfortably over time. A fully g3 upgraded ship with the spare materials from your back pocket is normally what I can get without going near a material source or planetary base :D
 
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