Astronomical verisimilitude?

Just wondering if anyone somewhat versed in matters ethereal could share their thoughts on how well ED does in creating stuff that is scientifically plausible with its procedural generation? (aside from combat stuff like sound, bullets having a max range, scanners being only heat based etc).

What is the ratio of possible scenarios to impossible ones in a 25KLy trip? How much can an average Joe like me learn from such a trip, assuming the sum of my knowledge is that of a Discovery Channel's kiddie series?

I know we are lacking in-game explanations of lots of key things, like how frameshift works or how we can see colours that are not within the spectrum of the MkI eyeball. We also haven't been told how we can survive radiation super close to a star or the gravity of a black hole.

But what about the typical layouts of systems, the descriptions of various bodies, proximity of things, orbits - are these within the realms of science or more leaning towards fiction / RNG? Obviously we are missing wondrous stuff that we can't see on today's primitive instruments and it seems ED didn't go nuts creating weird stuff (aside from Thargoids :))which is probably a good thing?
 
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But what about the typical layouts of systems, the descriptions of various bodies, proximity of things, orbits - are these within the realms of science or more leaning towards fiction / RNG? Obviously we are missing wondrous stuff that we can't see on today's primitive instruments and it seems ED didn't go nuts creating weird stuff (aside from Thargoids :))which is probably a good thing?

Fact is that in real world we don't know these things pretty much. We could see many planets in other systems but not an entire system and only on certain conditions. What has been observed is that many planets have very squeezed eliptical orbits, and that the model - rocky planets near the star - gas giants far from the star - that we have in Sol is not constant, as many "hot jupiters" have been found orbiting closer than mercury to their star. Also rocky planets have been found in places that were thought impossible for them, like Neutron Stars. Not to mention that the Earth is the biggest rocky planet in our system, but way bigger have been found.

So the starforge is somewhat accurate to report system following what it has been observed. Something is missing tough, like accretion discs, star cannibalism, star merging, supernovae events, and such. And as much rocky planets have been found orbiting neutron stars, finding an "Earth Like" there, with no heat and massive radiation seemed odd to many.

Regarding radiations, stellar winds and gravity wells I think that gameplay > absolute realism. The Gal Map is somewhat realistic, altough there are many discrepancies with the real galaxy it's realistic enough and fun to travel.
 
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Hard to tell, really. In real life, we don't know much about other star systems except for some of those with very large and easily-detectable stars.

I see a lot of binary systems that don't seem very plausible to me, like B-type stars which are orbiting each other less than one of their radii apart. I'd expect a real configuration like that to result in stars that tear each other apart and merge. Or, sometimes you'll find planets within a couple AUs of a neutron star or black hole, and if our ideas on stellar evolution are correct that shouldn't be possible since they'd have been engulfed by the star during its post-hydrogen-burning giant stage or destroyed by a supernova.
 
Or, sometimes you'll find planets within a couple AUs of a neutron star or black hole, and if our ideas on stellar evolution are correct that shouldn't be possible since they'd have been engulfed by the star during its post-hydrogen-burning giant stage or destroyed by a supernova.

Well, rocky planets have been found orbiting neutron stars, to the uttermost surprise of everyone. It's very unlikely they can sustain life tough. A BH or NS are very small, so their gravity pull is massive when close, but not so much if you move a little away. In game planets tend to orbit at around 3AU from NS, that is a very safe distance. These planets cannot have formed before the supernova, they are tought to be formed with last layer of dust ejected after the supernova, and in bery "quick" time. In fact this discovery put the already existing planetary formation theory in trouble.
 
It's pretty good, on the whole. The close binary planets are the things which jar my immersion the most. There are a lot of oddities - I can go into tedious detail if you like about the heat from some of the hand-placed star systems. :) We don't know well enough what other star systems are like and we don't know well enough what the mass distribution of stars is like (e.g. how many brown dwarfs there are) although I suspect the Elite galaxy has more bright stars than the Milky Way; we have only sketchy details about the smallest brown dwarfs. We generally don't know the distances to far-off stars (over a kiloparsec, say) very well, which means we don't know so much about their other properties either, and we don't know the shape of the galaxy*, so it's not fair or sensible to compare the positions and properties of particular stars in the Elite galaxy against "real" ones in most cases. Many of the stars have implausible properties. Some of the broad-brush features of the Elite galaxy are strange - the neutron star fields, the missing white dwarfs, the lack of a proper halo, say - but overall it's a good effort, and the majority of systems are very plausible.


*we can't see it because there's a galaxy in the way.
 
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I think they tried to keep everything as accurate as possible and overall most of the things you see make sense. My biggest complains are about the overabundance of binary planets. Even if systems with 2, 3 or even 4 large gas giants orbiting each other is possible i dont think it would be very common. But we see such systems everywhere.
My second complain is about presence of terraformable HMCs and even Water Worlds orbiting Neutron Stars. That seems to me rather impossible providing the deadly radiation of the neutron stars
 
Has anyone ever wished there could be dangerous stuff for explorers like Gamma Ray Bursts or various electromagnetic damage to ships to make the adrenaline levels more even (rather than just when approaching gankers for the first time in 3 months with 190m of data). And more on a par with the RES farmers going toe-to-toe with Gunship trios on their last SCB?

I mean the universe is filled with energy/forces of unimaginably awesome magnitudes, probably the tertiary effects would be enough to pulverise a Conda in milliseconds, so does it kinda seems pedestrian that the most dangerous thing going deep into the unknown is switching music tracks when scooping.
 
A good example: not long ago we didn't think big planets close to a star are possible. Now we're detecting Hot Jupiters right front and center. Our understanding increases with time and with it, the our scope of what is and isn't possible. One thing I'm not entirely clear on are water worlds with no atmosphere... unless they consider something Europa-like a water world.
 
Has anyone ever wished there could be dangerous stuff for explorers like Gamma Ray Bursts or various electromagnetic damage to ships to make the adrenaline levels more even (rather than just when approaching gankers for the first time in 3 months with 190m of data). And more on a par with the RES farmers going toe-to-toe with Gunship trios on their last SCB?

I mean the universe is filled with energy/forces of unimaginably awesome magnitudes, probably the tertiary effects would be enough to pulverise a Conda in milliseconds, so does it kinda seems pedestrian that the most dangerous thing going deep into the unknown is switching music tracks when scooping.

Not really. Random events causing insta-death wouldn't be fun. I'd hate to have my two-month Core exploration trip ended in 3 ms by a sudden unavoidable gamma ray burst from a black hole I jumped near.

Now, if they had such events that were gradual, not insta-death, and provided additional exploration value, that would be fun and interesting. Scanning idle neutron stars is one thing. Imagine scanning a neutron star that is gobbling up a close M-class and is not far away from going supernova! That ought to be worth a lot of exploration credit.
 
One thing I'm not entirely clear on are water worlds with no atmosphere... unless they consider something Europa-like a water world.

I think the ED definition of water world is any terrestrial body with carbon/water based life so notionally that could exist in a frozen over ocean on a planet with no atmosphere above the icy crust - Europa like as you say.
 
the one glaring mistake I have seen is that they put planets around O and B class stars. these stars have VERY short lives and would form probably form little more than a accretion disk around them before they went bang. they have lives of ~10 million years at the most, but some of the O class systems say there age is like 600 million years. probably some issue with their Procedural generation. also some of the multiple planets orbiting each other would also likely be unstable in the long term and most likely be found in very young systems.

the other thing I see is that it is very obvious that they are generating the land masses on ELW's using fractals, and while this make more irregular coast lines. it looks too random, since it dose not take into about plate tectonics.

but like others in this thread have said, there is so much more that we have to learn. about exoplanet systems. these ore really nit pics on a game that I really like as a while
 
the one glaring mistake I have seen is that they put planets around O and B class stars. these stars have VERY short lives and would form probably form little more than a accretion disk around them before they went bang. they have lives of ~10 million years at the most, but some of the O class systems say there age is like 600 million years. probably some issue with their Procedural generation. also some of the multiple planets orbiting each other would also likely be unstable in the long term and most likely be found in very young systems.

Yes, that's a biggie. And as far as ED is concerned, life seems to begin immediately once the conditions for it are met whereas it took some considerable time to happen on Earth - though we could be a fluke. I am looking into the various spectral type / mass / radius / temperature / age correlations and how they're calculated or generated by the game. One thing I've noticed is that I'm no longer finding any stars with ages above 14,000 Myr - it could be that whatever was causing them to be generated before with older ages has been fixed, would be interested to know if anyone has found a fresh, unscanned system with age above 14,000 Myr recently.
 
There are things that are "right" - the scale of the solar systems and universe as a whole, for example, and the way (most of) the planets move around in their orbits, and the way a space station goes into darkness when it moves into the shadow of the planet it's orbiting.

There are things that are "probably right" - the colours of alien planets, for example, can be extrapolated based on what we know of physics and chemistry.

There are things that are in the "we don't really know, so FD's guess is as good as ours" - such as the long-term stability of binary giant planets.

There are some things that have been "hollywoodized" for visual effect and/or ease of gameplay. The three biggest in this category are nebulas (IRL they're much dimmer and less colourful), asteroid belts and rings (IRL they look much less star-wars-like) and the centripetal pseudo-gravity inside the rotating space stations (IRL there's no law of physics that allows a spaceship not attached to a spinning object to just hang there and rotate around along with the rotating object).

There are some nit-picky things that are just plain "wrong". Ages of stars, for example, are uniform cross a star system - including T Tauri stars. In reality, stars in binary and multiple star systems probably light up at different ages, particularly ones in eccentric orbits.

The procedural generation of stars is in "blocks". This block will have a large proportion of black holes and neutron stars, the next block might have a high proportion of giants and supergiants. This leads to a "lego-like" galactic structure, which is actually visible in some places: if you fly to the edge of one of the blocks, the night sky from there looks clearly assymetrical, with one side of the sky empty of stars and the other side ablaze, and a clear sharp line between the two. The real galaxy might have regions where certain star types are common, but won't have clear, sharp lines like this.

In places, we know where some "strings" of remote real-world stars are, and some of these strings have been placed on the ED galactic map. These "strings" are not physical, but are artefacts of whatever satellite or telescope took the pictures of that part of the sky. When these "strings" are denser than the procedurally-generated galaxy, they can create "rays" of stars, that seem to point directly at Earth - as if the Galactic Designer has built a vast supergun and was aiming it right at us. In reality, the star density outside of the "ray" is almost certainly exactly the same as the density in the "ray". There's one over near the Orion Nebula, if you want to see what we mean.

They haven't yet implemented universal gravity: our spaceships are immune to its effects. Moons orbit planets, planets orbit stars, but you can't "put yourself in orbit around" a planet. This is mainly because of the ridiculously low speed limits while flying in normal space (ie not Supercruise). At those low speeds, everything would simply fall out of orbit. In most places, this isn't really noticeable, but if you get up really close to a black hole (like, only a few km away from it) you don't orbit it, you don't get torn apart by the extreme gravity - your ship just hangs there, floating, not even using the thrusters to hold itself in position. I don't know what gravity is going to be like in Horizons.

New Africa in the Epsilon Indi system has a moon with an orbital period of 86 seconds. That's really moving fast - visibly fast, you can watch the moon go round and round from the safe distance of the space station. It looks cool, but we've done the maths and it's quite impossible for a "normal" planet to have a moon like that; a moon at that visual distance should have a period of at least an hour or two. I suspect there's some kind of over-ride to prevent moons from orbiting through the surface of their parent planet and a moon with an impossibly small orbital radius is given a more reasonable one when the moon is drawn, but the calculations of orbital speed are still done using the original numbers.

In real life, planetary rings are not solid objects - each particle is its own moon and ring particles closer to the planet move slightly faster than ones further out - like cars on a giant circular million-lane freeway. But the rings in ED are, effectively, solid objects, albeit solid objects you can fly through. Just as if all the cars on the road were superglued in place and the road itself was moving, the ring particles are all magically attached to this invisible solid object, and rotate with it, so every particle in a ring has exactly the same radial velocity - which in turn means that the ring particles on the outermost parts of the ring are actually moving faster than the innmost parts, rather than slower like they do in real life. A spectacular side-effect of this is when you fly up to a ring boundary, you can look across at the next ring in (or the next ring out) and watch the particles in that other ring whiz past at super-high speed.

Overall, the physics is good, and easily allowing me to "suspend disbelief". But it is by no means perfect.
 
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