i bet its powerplant every time
'Attack of the AI' III
- Thread starter Ian Phillips
- Start date
Generally the AI seems to be OK, but I'd say low-intensity conflict zones need toning down a bit. Every NPC is Expert/Dangerous/Deadly and they all seem to be packing plasma, rails and missiles. It's not uncommon to be dogpiled by a few of these nasties within a few seconds of arriving, at which point you're basically toast unless you're flying a very tanky ship or you run away very fast.
Edit: I'll also add that, while higher-rank NPCs are definitely more challenging to take on, they're also pretty boring as fights quickly devolve into jousting matches, at which point it's a question of who's got better aim and who's got higher alpha. I'd much rather have more entertaining dogfights where NPCs use a variety of different tactics.
Edit: I'll also add that, while higher-rank NPCs are definitely more challenging to take on, they're also pretty boring as fights quickly devolve into jousting matches, at which point it's a question of who's got better aim and who's got higher alpha. I'd much rather have more entertaining dogfights where NPCs use a variety of different tactics.
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The AI itself seems about right. It sounds like there's still room to adjust things such that combat-averse players can do more in the game without getting whapped too often. The curve seems a lot better, but it's important to remember that combat rank only increases, never decreases, so only a complete pacifist would never get top-flight opposition eventually. Ultimately, as I've said before, I think the solution is not rely on using a difficulty curve based on the player, but tie the strength of the AI more strongly to where it is encountered. Have the strongest AI in areas that players can avoid completely, if they want, but that are always available for those who fancy their chances in a low end ship. I think it's better to do that by system feature (HAZRES, combat etc.) rather than by the security of the system, but that's partially a selfish desire based on long distance travel being something of a pain in the backside at times already.
I think the issues with the AI are probably most behavioural rather than directly combat-related. Hostile NPCs spawning at too great a rate, or too many spawning at more-or-less the same time, is one part of that. Target choice is also an issue - it seems that hostile NPCs often only care about attacking the player, even there are other targets around that make as much as or more sense. The combination of those two issues probably produces a perfect storm every now and again that's almost impossible to survive.
I think the issues with the AI are probably most behavioural rather than directly combat-related. Hostile NPCs spawning at too great a rate, or too many spawning at more-or-less the same time, is one part of that. Target choice is also an issue - it seems that hostile NPCs often only care about attacking the player, even there are other targets around that make as much as or more sense. The combination of those two issues probably produces a perfect storm every now and again that's almost impossible to survive.
I find the Ai now just about right.
However in my game all 0 threat signals I jump into with cargo on board is now instant death if I remain long enough to try to scoop any materials.
FD need to sort zero threat out as the Ai that jump into to these are for me the hardest I come across.
They always jump in on top of me opening up with their firepower immediately and not even bothering to scan me first.
However in my game all 0 threat signals I jump into with cargo on board is now instant death if I remain long enough to try to scoop any materials.
FD need to sort zero threat out as the Ai that jump into to these are for me the hardest I come across.
They always jump in on top of me opening up with their firepower immediately and not even bothering to scan me first.
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I ran a little set of tests today for my own enlightenment. I wanted to see just how often I'd be interdicted doing some Imperial Slave trading between two high security Empire systems (Chujohimba and Pancienses). And I wanted to see if the ship I was in mattered at all.
......
I believe something is very wrong with interdiction frequency and attacker level. Your experience may vary
I do wonder if we still have bugs causing problems for some players, I too see quite a lot of interdictions (as I'm pledged in Powerplay this isn't all that unusual anyway) a lot of the NPCs are Elite (my rank is Dangerous) and they're flying FAS/FDL/Python/Conda v my Tradeconda - other players report oceans of calm, nary a plasma bolt passses their way, and the only NPC they found was a one legged pirate in a Sidewinder. There's a disconnect here, maybe NPCs aren't spawning according to plan?
Dave
I've not done a huge amount of play in 2.1.02, but so far it has seemed rather 'feast or famine'.
This is what's echoing back and forth until someone fixes it.....
It's kinda on 'random' at the moment - which wouldn't have mattered with the old dumb AI but now it really really does matter it's standing out like a sore thumb
Keep in mind that there are undoubtedly many players who might vote too hard who are no longer here to vote, having been driven out of the game by the excessive AI difficulty.
Tldr
Someone been playing Doom recently?
On the ai front they are getting there but for casuals they are still to hard if your appealing to military test pilots or players who live in the game and are currently awaiting FDEV to sell space toilet systems and food replicators then they are fine.
I would say add a element of failure to them dependent on their rank so harmless could make a mistake 30% of the time but Elites never make a mistake. This would give them a small amount of human error.
Someone been playing Doom recently?
On the ai front they are getting there but for casuals they are still to hard if your appealing to military test pilots or players who live in the game and are currently awaiting FDEV to sell space toilet systems and food replicators then they are fine.
I would say add a element of failure to them dependent on their rank so harmless could make a mistake 30% of the time but Elites never make a mistake. This would give them a small amount of human error.
I hardly noticed any difference to AI - all I see is OP npc's, now running around in an asp as I won't risk my Anaconda or Imp Cutter getting wasted by an OP Eagle that destroys your shields in 2 hits & your beam lasers don't even scratch it's shields. Since the latest patch they aren't quite so nasty but still way OP. How come a ship like an Anaconds interdicts me & takes out my shields before I can even deploy hardpoints & then manages to stay behind me (I'm in a maxed out Asp ie A rated everfything) even though I am more manoverable? Only way I can target these is by using Flight Assist off. Had to outrun the Anaconda, never even got a shot in before I decided to run & jump out. Game is no fun anymore, in fact it's no longer a game.
Anyone noticed the Federal & Imperial ratings go down so fast yet takes ages to get rep so you have trouble staying Allied?
Anyone noticed the Federal & Imperial ratings go down so fast yet takes ages to get rep so you have trouble staying Allied?
In my mind the fundamental problem is that the AI is being allowed to ignore the limitations of the ships they're in.
A Cobra has a limited turn radius. It's only SO maneuverable. A Sidewinder has a SMALLER turn radius, it's MORE maneuverable. Despite this, my Sidewinder was EASILY outmaneuvered by a Cobra. AI guns do more damage than the same guns on a player ship. AI ships turn tighter than the same player ship can, run faster than the same player ship can, and so on.
That's not stronger AI, that's giving the NPCs magic ships with increased abilities. What SHOULD be happening is that the AI should be fighting SMARTER. The less maneuverable ships shouldn't be magically more maneuverable, they should be flying in a compensatory way. They should fly to their strengths, but still be limited by their weaknesses. Right now they don't do either, they're just magically more powerful.
A Cobra has a limited turn radius. It's only SO maneuverable. A Sidewinder has a SMALLER turn radius, it's MORE maneuverable. Despite this, my Sidewinder was EASILY outmaneuvered by a Cobra. AI guns do more damage than the same guns on a player ship. AI ships turn tighter than the same player ship can, run faster than the same player ship can, and so on.
That's not stronger AI, that's giving the NPCs magic ships with increased abilities. What SHOULD be happening is that the AI should be fighting SMARTER. The less maneuverable ships shouldn't be magically more maneuverable, they should be flying in a compensatory way. They should fly to their strengths, but still be limited by their weaknesses. Right now they don't do either, they're just magically more powerful.
There also also many, many players who aren't here to vote easy either because they have long left due to the AI being trash.
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That may be true, but if so they left by their OWN CHOICE. Players driven out by the difficulty have no choice, either stop playing or be stopped by the AI.
After reading much about the improved AI, and absorbing the commentary I have to concede that the current difficulty level may have gone a bit far. Not for those who pursue combat, like I do but, for those that found a path in Elite less war like. I am perfectly willing to accept that for those that found a non-combat play style the new AI has intruded on their experience.
I don't think Elite should expect every player to be an ace. We can all become elite in one of four categories, shouldn't that mean that there is room for those that don't take the warrior's path? Just as we have three modes to facilitate as many players interests as possible, shouldn't the mix of combat to noncombat be in the hands of the individual player?
I would consider having locations, RES, CZ's be where combat focused players go for their/our challenge. And, reducing the combat risk in general space for the traders, and explorers. RES's and CZ's are already scaled for difficulty, why not use that mechanism to put the amount of challenge you face in the hands of the player?
I don't think Elite should expect every player to be an ace. We can all become elite in one of four categories, shouldn't that mean that there is room for those that don't take the warrior's path? Just as we have three modes to facilitate as many players interests as possible, shouldn't the mix of combat to noncombat be in the hands of the individual player?
I would consider having locations, RES, CZ's be where combat focused players go for their/our challenge. And, reducing the combat risk in general space for the traders, and explorers. RES's and CZ's are already scaled for difficulty, why not use that mechanism to put the amount of challenge you face in the hands of the player?
and can you imagine if one player were to somehow find an exploit to harness this NPC cheating devs call AI and call it intelligent use of resources what hellfire would rain down on this player? NPCs are NOT using Ai...its PURE cheat mode that was intentionally coded...the bug was related to mods that was wrecklessly given to NPCs.
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No, they also had a choice too. Either adapt or leave. They choose second.
I think you creating a false equivalence between "ace pilot" and "knows how to survive an attack". If you claim an "Elite" rank in trading or exploration, that should also include a basic working knowledge of how to escape any dangerous situation.
Besides, it's not like it's wall to wall Elite Pirates out there. Most of the spawns I see are Harmless or Mostly Harmless. I already can't find a good fight to save my life, unless I go pirate, and even then it's not that easy to find a challenge.
![[VR] Enexemander](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/119/119036.jpg?1621636716){kind=avatar}
If a fight is devolving into a joust, you can always fly backwards. If they have a great alpha strike, they're probably using weapons that are easy to dodge if you see them coming.
If you approach the AI with the same strategy every time, then the AI is going to do what it's programmed to do against that. So if you're always getting into jousts and you don't want to do that? That's actually on you. Either out-maneuver them to get into a turning battle or use reverse thrust to make it a slug match.
You don't have to play their game to win. In fact, it's best if you don't.
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Why not let the individual have more control? You seek more of a combat challenge? Let the CZ's and RES's offer that challenge. Then you, all of us, would know exactly how to find it. This way there could be a true no-holds-barred experience in the Hazardous level sites, while open space can be more sedate for the more peace loving members of our community.
^^^ This ^^^
Being an Ace Combat Pilot is now harder (as it always should have been), but bolting from a dangerous situation is still easy unless someone severely cripples himself.