Might make sense for Frontier to allocate players into instances based on their desired Environment difficulty too (say, 3 levels). There can still be PvP, but the PvE aspects would be either increased or reduced. But that, of course, would take additional coding and logic, and wouldn't happen overnight.
'Attack of the AI' III
- Thread starter Ian Phillips
- Start date
There's no maybe, good, solid Dark Souls-sque games has been reaping interest, both critical and financial, for some years now. XCOM series, all kind of sims experiencing come back...there's lot of money in this niche, as old players find re-kindled love for gaming with new outings and series, and return of old ones, and new players looking for more "bite" in gaming discover these games allowing them not to feel like QTE construct and part of virtual cinema.
So there's certainly solid ground for ED to build upon.
As for challenge - challenge wears out after you find tricks and tips how to beat game. SJA promised more unpredictable AI in future updates and I hope she delivers. For less regular player ED will still feel quite challenging. And combat has been always been part of every activity you do in ED. You just can't openly ignore it now anymore.
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No ones gonna split player base up in that way. Forget it.
What game are you playing?!?!?!!?!?!?!
[video=youtube;jqDsRLXkm4Q]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqDsRLXkm4Q&feature=youtu.be[/video]
[video=youtube;6YZoBY84xu0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YZoBY84xu0[/video]
[video=youtube;tkN3bQ_jlrk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkN3bQ_jlrk[/video]
[video=youtube;3QhjxpY0SCw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QhjxpY0SCw&feature=youtu.be[/video]
FOUR interdictions...watch and then tell me you are serious
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except for some of us its not always the same npc over and over and its nothing to do with missions its to do with 10 tons of random engineer mats, and you cant tell if its a winnable fight or to flee without trying to fight... and if its not winnable you cant flee because they always target your thrusters and FSD and they can always miraculously keep up no matter what kind of ship you have and they have. its all very well saying know when to run but by that time its too late. you have to avoid all combat or you ARE going to die one time in maybe 5 or 10. an often without being able to make your rebuy back when the next time happens because they interdict you over and over if you are not always jumping to new systems. spend time in inhabited system? say to refuel or get to a station? oops. depending on how long refuel takes, you will be interdicted. if its a fair way to any station, say over 40 LS you WILL be interdicted. if its a long way then expect multiple interdictions - all at least 1 level above your combat rank and all in combat ships. even if yours isnt.
and its worse. last time i played i was in an uninhabited system - no stations or population - on the way to an engineer base a few jumps away. i stopped in the safe empty place to fuel scoop, and i get interdicted?? no police there. no chance to survive. but fly with no cargo - virtually ignored. 1 interdiction i had empty mostly harmless dbs.
sure i can fly patterns to avoid all but the invisible npc interdictions and try to play the interdiction escape (if it doesnt instant end with fail or escape) but... wheres the fun? wheres the immersion? where are the RANDOM npc combat levels? how do they know i even HAVE cargo? they never scan? wheres the fun of ALWAYS running a pure combat ship and doing NOTHING that requires significant cargo space and seeking out combat and nothing else? elite was NEVER about pure combat.
you have all the other stuff in the game, for mining and cargo missions and trading - and now none of it is possible. and no i am not wanting combat AI dumbed down. but fights should not ever end in seconds with no chance at all to do anything to avoid it. you should have time to find out if its winnable THEN TIME TO TRY AND GET THE HELL OUT IF ITS NOT. NOT getting your thrusters and FSD eliminated in the 5 seconds after your shield went down.
theres no fun with constant high level interdictions if you have cargo. theres no fun in flying a ship only for combat. but theres no fun in running from ALL combats, knowing that one day the game will cheat and an invisble npc will appear behind you one day anyway, instantly interdict, and it will instantly end one day with fail before you can blink and then you will find shields down in 8 seconds and not able to move or jump in another 5. and you cant even video it to show anyone because you cant run that crap at same time as the game so most of the people who want the game even harder will just abuse you and call you a liar. elite without ANY combat is no fun either. i played solo to avoid the griefer crap.
wheres the fun? in being an npc griefer. where am i? scared to leave station because i cant bring myself to risk losing my asp for good when rebuys run out. because the engineer mods have too many downsides for not enough upsides, and i will be destroyed and lose the mats on the way to any of them anyway. so i couldnt do any. because i dont see why i should wind up back in a worthless sidewinder as target practise for npcs above my level when i have any cargo. the grind was sickeningly dull to get the cobra - and minus a billion credits to the first clueless chump to say 'go to a res/nav beacon and hang around the cops and get some bounties'. how is ranking up my combat level going to make the npcs any more random? its going to make them all one rank higher than now!
and double that to the ones saying clear save. when i make a mistake and get killed i can accept that loss. but i dont make that many, that i would lose all my few rebuys and wind up in a winder again on my own. i have 539 hours in the game since i got it end of january - im not doing any more grind. and its a bad mistake to say knowing when to run because you will 'run' into an opponent who wont give you the time to decide that and certainly you wont have the time to jump out before he disabled every method of escape - including combat logging.
just as a further point i was making a combat FAS. and i would have gone into haz res and stuck by authority vessels in that. not to farm, but to have fun with pure combat. but i would minimise the risks. the 2.1 would not have changed that - it just made it almost impossible to finish building it.
sorry for wall of text im just frustrated i cant play my favourite game without getting my asp handed to me by npcs...
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I recorded a demonstration on how to G!#O in a signal source of Threat 0 
[video=youtube;5zpyMfXO9bM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zpyMfXO9bM[/video]
Step 1. Pick a safe signal source, wreckage most likely.
Step 2. Deploy drones to loot the goods.
Step 3. Notice in your sensors that there's a 'Dangerous' Python.
Step 4. Stare at the contacts panel.
Step 5. Stare some more.
Step 6. Yep, your ship is on fire.
Step 7. Push all the buttons, throttle, countermeasures, everything.
Step 8. G!#O
[video=youtube;5zpyMfXO9bM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zpyMfXO9bM[/video]
Step 1. Pick a safe signal source, wreckage most likely.
Step 2. Deploy drones to loot the goods.
Step 3. Notice in your sensors that there's a 'Dangerous' Python.
Step 4. Stare at the contacts panel.
Step 5. Stare some more.
Step 6. Yep, your ship is on fire.
Step 7. Push all the buttons, throttle, countermeasures, everything.
Step 8. G!#O
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I've pretty much not had any issues so far until just now when I dropped into a RES and got swarmed by NPCs from what seemed like every power. There were at least 9 ships. That was ridiculous; they were all 100% locked on to me, ignoring each other and ignoring security ships. Bye bye rebuy.
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Yes; this is what we should be focusing on/trying to give FD data to solve the problems. WHY are there 2 such polarities in the reports/gameplay experiences? There's definitely a split - why/how could that be?
As I mentioned above, I am not immediately knocking the new AI - I think there's several entangled problems here.
Yes, just so. I don't mind if the AI are extremely good pilots - what I do mind is that they do maneuvers impossible for a player, even a great combat one, to match.
I have had the stalking 'condas and Vultures while out in empty space, carrying no cargo and not on a mission. I've only had 3 rebuys in the whole time I've been playing, and that was in the beginning (Elite 1.0). So I kinda do know how to fly/evade or fight.
I've quit doing cargo runs for the time being & switched to a Cobra MkIII outfitted for speed and shielding and am doing some exploration. I'm not taking the Anaconda out (and she is well-equipped to fight or run) until there's some information & hopefully clarification about these absurd interdic'ing and "nothing below Dangerous" problems.
I DO take into account the information from other players (like Ziljan) that they are not experiencing these things - I believe them (unlessl they go all rabid "git gud"). As a computer tech for over 35yrs, I know that the worst problems to track down are intermittent ones. It is curious that there are two distinct patterns here, and I don't think it's just "carebear whining."
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Do you mind if I include your videos on my thread for the T9 build?
I reset my save for 2.1. My combat rank is currently Harmless.
When doing missions or carrying cargo I get interdicted mostly by Novice NPCs, sometimes lower. When I had an active bounty on my head I had a couple of interdictions from Expert and Master NPCs. Now it's back to the novices.
But just earlier I was interdicted by an Elite Vulture. All I was carrying was limpets, I wasn't wanted, it's a low security, corporate, Fed system. The only thing I can think that might have caused such a response was that I'd killed a wanted NPC in a USS a few minutes earlier and maybe and maybe they were the same faction.
I have to say I was surprised to see an Elite NPC given my low level.
Ran like hell from that fight.
When doing missions or carrying cargo I get interdicted mostly by Novice NPCs, sometimes lower. When I had an active bounty on my head I had a couple of interdictions from Expert and Master NPCs. Now it's back to the novices.
But just earlier I was interdicted by an Elite Vulture. All I was carrying was limpets, I wasn't wanted, it's a low security, corporate, Fed system. The only thing I can think that might have caused such a response was that I'd killed a wanted NPC in a USS a few minutes earlier and maybe and maybe they were the same faction.
I have to say I was surprised to see an Elite NPC given my low level.
Ran like hell from that fight.
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I am guessing it was a combination of a negative reputation with a pirate faction in a low security system. Those two seem to spawn higher rank people hunting you.
1) a negative reputation acts like a bounty
2) a low sec system has meaner more dangerous NPCs
So me and and Mate winged up and decided to tackle a high and Haz Res and check out the AI.
Both of us were in FDL's and are Dangerous and Deadly ranked atm.
Into the High first, mostly small rubbish and a couple Pythons, yep the AI is more difficult but not so much we couldn't handle it, the Pythons were dangerous or deadly ranked, they took some damage and a bit of work from both of us, could do it solo i would say just required more work, spend a lot more time maneuvering and doing more fun boost turns etc. Had a blast with the new harder AI.
Haz next, came up against slimier ranked FDL's Condas and pythons, same as high res lots of fun harder smarter AI but not overboard.....until we found a Dangerous Clipper ( first one we had seen that night )
Engaged the Clipper, Mate instantly gets Thermal Warning attack and loses shields and canopy blown out ( holy crap that was fastt...he had other choice words mind you )....I was still on the clipper and had it's shields down, mate ran and clipper turned on me as I started on it's hull....Holy hell what is this hull made of only got it down to 88% hull, after one pass my shields are gone and at 50% ( I got the Thermal attack warning to ) hull from the Clipper ( my turn to run )
Full pips to Engine and i get basically unlimited boost...I'm away, weapons are stowed and i'm running like an alter boy from a priest after Sunday service. This clipper did not move from my tail and had full lasers on me for 2 mins, were he got the power for this I have no idea. Took me out chaff, boost manuring while running nothing stopped this thing.
I love the New AI but think their are some strange anomalies happening with random encounters that need to be looked into.
Both of us were in FDL's and are Dangerous and Deadly ranked atm.
Into the High first, mostly small rubbish and a couple Pythons, yep the AI is more difficult but not so much we couldn't handle it, the Pythons were dangerous or deadly ranked, they took some damage and a bit of work from both of us, could do it solo i would say just required more work, spend a lot more time maneuvering and doing more fun boost turns etc. Had a blast with the new harder AI.
Haz next, came up against slimier ranked FDL's Condas and pythons, same as high res lots of fun harder smarter AI but not overboard.....until we found a Dangerous Clipper ( first one we had seen that night )
Engaged the Clipper, Mate instantly gets Thermal Warning attack and loses shields and canopy blown out ( holy crap that was fastt...he had other choice words mind you )....I was still on the clipper and had it's shields down, mate ran and clipper turned on me as I started on it's hull....Holy hell what is this hull made of only got it down to 88% hull, after one pass my shields are gone and at 50% ( I got the Thermal attack warning to ) hull from the Clipper ( my turn to run )
Full pips to Engine and i get basically unlimited boost...I'm away, weapons are stowed and i'm running like an alter boy from a priest after Sunday service. This clipper did not move from my tail and had full lasers on me for 2 mins, were he got the power for this I have no idea. Took me out chaff, boost manuring while running nothing stopped this thing.
I love the New AI but think their are some strange anomalies happening with random encounters that need to be looked into.
That is likely the case. Remember Clippers are crazy fast, so it staying on your tail isn't a surprise. But, the weapon issue is worth reporting as a possible bug. That is one of the running themes with these complaints.
Yeah, that's the anomaly that needs figuring out. Best thing we can do is keep pushing data at FD & hope they're working on it.
Yup, that for me too, mostly. I get interdic't about 3-4 times per session (2-4hrs) if I'm carrying absolutely no cargo, including Engineer commodities. Still high-level NPCs, even in "deep space" emptiness (exploring) but it's down to about what it should be, depending on how populated the area is.
A single ton of Engineer commodities, or Crom help me, a load of palladium and I am interdic't every second jump!
Said this quite a few times lately. The Bubble would collapse, no one would trade, as you say, the Navy (where are the Navy? Seriously?) would end up in fragmented wolf packs & all the inhabited worlds would collapse into a Dark Age they might not recover from for, say, several thousand to million years...
Yeah, this is a tough one... or several colliding issues.
This interests me, as it is coming up in a lot of reports. Maybe a "thermal attack" has the same problem as the NPC uberweapons? Somehow combining or translating some other operating data for that attack...
Yeah, that's what I mean by "impossible game physics." PS: "manuering" heh
I agree. "Strange things are afoot at the Circle K."
Starport scans?
This has been weird to me too lately & I'm wondering if anyone else has this phenomenon or noticed...
Since 2.1 dropped, I have been scanned by a system port exactly one time.
No, really. Maybe 1-2 others I don't remember but surely not the amount of scans I used to take, which were invariably done to me at every station except an outpost or a ground station.
It's weird. It's so weird (I mean, 16 or so months of scans happening every dock) that I poked and prodded until I could confirm it. I guess now's the time to haul illegals all over the quadrant
anyone else notice/have this?
This has been weird to me too lately & I'm wondering if anyone else has this phenomenon or noticed...
Since 2.1 dropped, I have been scanned by a system port exactly one time.
No, really. Maybe 1-2 others I don't remember but surely not the amount of scans I used to take, which were invariably done to me at every station except an outpost or a ground station.
It's weird. It's so weird (I mean, 16 or so months of scans happening every dock) that I poked and prodded until I could confirm it. I guess now's the time to haul illegals all over the quadrant
anyone else notice/have this?
This has been weird to me too lately & I'm wondering if anyone else has this phenomenon or noticed...
Since 2.1 dropped, I have been scanned by a system port exactly one time.
No, really. Maybe 1-2 others I don't remember but surely not the amount of scans I used to take, which were invariably done to me at every station except an outpost or a ground station.
It's weird. It's so weird (I mean, 16 or so months of scans happening every dock) that I poked and prodded until I could confirm it. I guess now's the time to haul illegals all over the quadrant
anyone else notice/have this?
Yep, scan rates seem reduced to me. Maybe I should report it as a bug.
erm... that is what I meant; the system authority ships clustered around a station (or "port").
As far as the other kind? nmap
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