Community Event / Creation August Exodus - The New World

/moved thread to community events

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/mod hat off

@OP: do i understand correctly, that this event is connected virtually to establish a new minor faction at jaques system? will this not necesseraly a) bring conflicts at the new world? which goverment type is that new faction, so this doesn't lead to civil wars in the new world? b) lead to poor jaques being kicked off his station?


Hi Goemon

In the short term this is to bring together as many players as possible who wish to oppose slavery from a roleplay perspective (and indeed, galvanise those who support it!). We would like this movement to become a player group.

This may bring conflicts to the new world, if people wanted to oppose it!

If, in the future, the movement gained enough traction for a minor faction to make sense then it would be great to look at that. They wouldn't have to control Jaques Station. Things like government type could be decided with the community.

In the meantime, we're counting on Jaques to be keeping the bar stocked for our arrival so we have no plans to kick him out!
 
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Is The Twin Candles a minor faction ? ... I think personnaly that is could be a place where differents minors factions could be very good neighbours in a cooperative way.

well, this is written in the opening post:

Their aim is that those who do so will join the Twin Candles as the first player faction in the new colony.

so, from a BGS perspective (which is what i do mainly in the bubble):

a) either the "player minor faction" has a similar goverment as jaques (which is a cooperative), in that case, there wouldn't be war/civil war, but elections between the two, or it has a different goverment, in that case, they would have a war/civil war as soon as they match influence.

b) in anyway, a second faction in system would be able to control jaques station, as long as FD don't set up a hardcoded security measurement against that (like they do with founders world).

i personally don't want to see a war/civil war in jaques system (which normally brings lowered system security with it, and therefore interdictions), and i also don't want to see jaques expelled from his station (actually i'm on my way, because i always liked jaques, and be happy he considered me an ally .... i hope he remembers that after his misjump). so while i personally think the idea of freeing slaves by bringing them to a new world, i personally think a player faction is a rather bad idea.
 
Hi Goemon

In the short term this is to bring together as many players as possible who wish to oppose slavery from a roleplay perspective (and indeed, galvanise those who support it!). We would like this movement to become a player group.

This may bring conflicts to the new world, if people wanted to oppose it!

If, in the future, the movement gained enough traction for a minor faction to make sense then it would be great to look at that. They wouldn't necessarily have to control Jaques Station. Things like government type could be decided with the community.

In the meantime, we're counting on Jaques to be keeping the bar stocked for our arrival so we have no plans to kick him out!

"This may bring conflicts to the new world, if poeple wanted to oppose it"

Personnaly I definitively dont want to see any conflict of any nature at Colonia Nebula and I think we must avoid any source of conflict. This place must be a place for exploration and science first, and by saying that, I dont want to say that it must be exclusively a place for exploration and science because I think there is many places for a lot of gamestyle. Of course, people will be needed if a colonization movement start and thats why I think your initiative, as it is, could be good. But only with that goal.
As I can see the goodwilling in this initiative, as I'm not sure to support an initiative that have an agenda to build a specific minor faction out there. I'm involve on the expedition to Jaques Sttion, as a pilot and as a representative of my minor faction, but I dont want my minor faction becoming a leader of anything there and I realy hope that it will be the case for any of us. I just want to take part of a mouvement that could give to the players a new kind of gameplay.

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well, this is written in the opening post:



so, from a BGS perspective (which is what i do mainly in the bubble):

a) either the "player minor faction" has a similar goverment as jaques (which is a cooperative), in that case, there wouldn't be war/civil war, but elections between the two, or it has a different goverment, in that case, they would have a war/civil war as soon as they match influence.

b) in anyway, a second faction in system would be able to control jaques station, as long as FD don't set up a hardcoded security measurement against that (like they do with founders world).

i personally don't want to see a war/civil war in jaques system (which normally brings lowered system security with it, and therefore interdictions), and i also don't want to see jaques expelled from his station (actually i'm on my way, because i always liked jaques, and be happy he considered me an ally .... i hope he remembers that after his misjump).

Yup ! You are right. I read that too fast, I guess.
 
Hi Goemon

In the short term this is to bring together as many players as possible who wish to oppose slavery from a roleplay perspective (and indeed, galvanise those who support it!). We would like this movement to become a player group.

This may bring conflicts to the new world, if people wanted to oppose it!

If, in the future, the movement gained enough traction for a minor faction to make sense then it would be great to look at that. They wouldn't necessarily have to control Jaques Station. Things like government type could be decided with the community.

In the meantime, we're counting on Jaques to be keeping the bar stocked for our arrival so we have no plans to kick him out!

I think a coalition would fit better to Colonia Nebula, instead of a lonely minor faction.

A coalition of the minors factions and freelancers at Colonia Nebula, with non agression pact and cooperation agreement would be better for further developpements and give to everyone more agility (I think about what FDev plan to do, and also players factions and freelancers).
 
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Hi Kled

You're spot on - slavery in the Empire is widely misunderstood. It could even be argued that it is the greatest social safety net that humanity has ever devised.

However, this is a roleplay event, and the character of Denain is a socialist. Players getting involved will have bought their slaves from somewhere and will be releasing them for free - so they will have paid off their debts for them.

Though I disagree with you on an RP sense. Best of luck to you driving some player content.
 
I think a coalition would fit better to Colonia Nebula, instead of a lonely minor faction.

A coalition of the minors factions and freelancers at Colonia Nebula, with non agression pact and cooperation agreement would be better for further developpements and give to everyone more agility (I think about what FDev plan to do, and also players factions and freelancers).


These are good points.

The idea to create a minor faction in-game really wouldn't be realistic until the new colony is much larger than just a single station. But if it did come to pass a coalition would be the most likely arrangement.

However it's much to early for that as yet. At present we're just getting the ball rolling and seeing how much support there would be to build on this storyline.

The last thing the Twin Candles would want is to bring conflict where it doesn't exist, but (lapsing into roleplay now) freedom and equality need defending, not least from any non-human aggressors that might emerge!
 
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EDIT: woops, totally wrong thread. Would delete if I could. Did want to post it in the original J2J thread wich I did. sorry!

Massjump 4k@60fps from basecamp 2

[video=youtube;1kRkafLlHHQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kRkafLlHHQ&feature=youtu.be[/video]
 
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The Twin Candles would like to see the new colony be a new political entity with its own principles, and a beacon of freedom and equality. As such they call on all pilots joining the August Exodus to take at least one ton (one family) of slaves with them for release at Jaques Station.

Their aim is that those who do so will join the Twin Candles as the first player faction in the new colony.

I hate to be the voice of cynicism, but this sounds like someone trying to cash in on our hard work by using it to get themselves a faction for free.
 
I hate to be the voice of cynicism, but this sounds like someone trying to cash in on our hard work by using it to get themselves a faction for free.

I don't think that's the case. A lot of work has gone into this since the colony idea was first hinted at by FD, this episode is only the beginning of a much larger story that will hopefully be player driven. Twin Candles could have took the easy option and roleplayed this whole thing out on the forums and in GalNet text, as some other player factions do with their own 'backgrounds' and lore before asking FD if they can have a faction, but TC want to include player events and player actions in game to help shape how theirs pans out. That to me is how this sort of thing should have worked from the off - in game deeds carrying more weight than text on a screen.

I don't see this as being any different from how existing player factions came into being, or how they now spend hours grinding away at the BGS to expand influence into a new system. Except that TC's birth will be via player actions since they've embraced an on-going player event that's been made available to them to set things in motion, and invited those who take part, to be a part of something bigger if the interest is there. Or scupper it completely.

There's a whole story behind it and they're only on chapter 1 at the moment. They may not even get to chapter 2 if the players don't embrace the idea and it peters out - or if pro-slavery groups blockade the colony and get deeply involved with trying to prevent things progressing. Twin Candles know this and have accepted that its possible part 2 may never see the light of day. Which is a risk a lot other factions who came into being never had to deal with.

Believe me if I thought this was a stunt or a gimmick, I wouldn't have associated the August Exodus with it in the first place ;)
 
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Î realy dont think its a good idea associate it with august exodus.
The main goal of the twin candles is to use for its benefit august exodus and what we are doing at colonia nebula since few weeks now, and for the only benefit of its minor faction.
I was enthousiatic with the idea while I read that : "Their aim is that those who do so will join the Twin Candles as the first player faction in the new colony. " Their ? Who ? The members of August Exodus ? Those were followed Olivia Vespera the very first time ? Ah no ! The Twin Candles.

Sorry Erimus, but if he want to do something at Colonia and make a proposal to the community, he must being more involved than that, eh. If he want to build the very first minor faction, thats ok, lets do it. He'd go to Colonia Nebula with his mates and do things realy usefull to the community out there (we need real milicia out there, and not just a honorific and roleplayed one, to kick the griefers out), instead of making some politics comfortably from the bubble.


 
Î realy dont think its a good idea associate it with august exodus.
The main goal of the twin candles is to use for its benefit august exodus and what we are doing at colonia nebula since few weeks now, and for the only benefit of its minor faction.
I was enthousiatic with the idea while I read that : "Their aim is that those who do so will join the Twin Candles as the first player faction in the new colony. " Their ? Who ? The members of August Exodus ? Those were followed Olivia Vespera the very first time ? Ah no ! The Twin Candles.

Sorry Erimus, but if he want to do something at Colonia and make a proposal to the community, he must being more involved than that, eh. If he want to build the very first minor faction, thats ok, lets do it. He'd go to Colonia Nebula with his mates and do things realy usefull to the community out there (we need real milicia out there, and not just a honorific and roleplayed one, to kick the griefers out), instead of making some politics comfortably from the bubble.



Hi Alex

I think we may have crossed wires slightly.

This initiative is to rally together players who wish to oppose slavery and to give the birth of the colony some compelling narrative. There would be no 'Twin Candles' were it not for the August Exodus - it's a figurehead for people who want to roleplay as abolitionists to rally around, and for players supporting slavery to oppose. It's not a pre-existing group of opportunists looking to cash in on the expedition.

If players oppose slavery and get together to demonstrate this by their in-game actions, the Twin Candles idea and backstory is a group they can adopt if they wish, united by a common cause. Likewise, it's an entity that pro-slavery groups can oppose.

If you oppose the initiative on the basis that you don't think slaves should be freed at Jaques - great, oppose it! That sounds like an opportunity for some good storytelling, and just the kind of narrative that makes the game more interesting. But it would be a shame to oppose it because you misunderstand the motivations of the organisers.
 
Some coverage of Denain's plea:

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And an excellent piece from Cmdr Corrigendum showing another perspective:

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oppose slavery ... united by a common cause. Likewise, it's an entity that pro-slavery groups can oppose. ... If you oppose the initiative ... oppose it because

this is already the logic of conflict and war.

either A, or B, there is no alternative.

I would so much prefer C, or D. and i personally would feel much better, if this initiative wouldn't come with a "player group"/"player faction" in a bag, like it does in the opening post - i have the impression, that @OP either didn't think about the consequences of such things on the BGS (and therefore safety for all explorers going to jaques is at stake), or wants the consequences (like war/civil war, or jaques loosing his station), without saying so. "either you are pro-slavery, or you want to oppose slavery by bringing war to the new bubble, ruin safety for explorers and kick jaques from his station" reads to me like the very wrong alternatives.
 
I don't think that's the case. A lot of work has gone into this since the colony idea was first hinted at by FD, this episode is only the beginning of a much larger story that will hopefully be player driven. Twin Candles could have took the easy option and roleplayed this whole thing out on the forums and in GalNet text, as some other player factions do with their own 'backgrounds' and lore before asking FD if they can have a faction, but TC want to include player events and player actions in game to help shape how theirs pans out. That to me is how this sort of thing should have worked from the off - in game deeds carrying more weight than text on a screen.

I don't see this as being any different from how existing player factions came into being, or how they now spend hours grinding away at the BGS to expand influence into a new system. Except that TC's birth will be via player actions since they've embraced an on-going player event that's been made available to them to set things in motion, and invited those who take part, to be a part of something bigger if the interest is there. Or scupper it completely.

There's a whole story behind it and they're only on chapter 1 at the moment. They may not even get to chapter 2 if the players don't embrace the idea and it peters out - or if pro-slavery groups blockade the colony and get deeply involved with trying to prevent things progressing. Twin Candles know this and have accepted that its possible part 2 may never see the light of day. Which is a risk a lot other factions who came into being never had to deal with.

Believe me if I thought this was a stunt or a gimmick, I wouldn't have associated the August Exodus with it in the first place ;)

this is already the logic of conflict and war.

either A, or B, there is no alternative.

I would so much prefer C, or D. and i personally would feel much better, if this initiative wouldn't come with a "player group"/"player faction" in a bag, like it does in the opening post - i have the impression, that @OP either didn't think about the consequences of such things on the BGS (and therefore safety for all explorers going to jaques is at stake), or wants the consequences (like war/civil war, or jaques loosing his station), without saying so. "either you are pro-slavery, or you want to oppose slavery by bringing war to the new bubble, ruin safety for explorers and kick jaques from his station" reads to me like the very wrong alternatives.

Erimus, I have been a roleplayer for most of my life. I like the idea presented and agree that it has a lot of possibility, although I have several modifications that I will suggest later in this post. What I don't like, and that Souvarine has not addressed to my satisfaction and has, in fact, dodged, is the emplacement of the only minor faction outside of Jaques in the Colonia territory.

For one thing, Souvarine has no prior participation in the exploration community to speak of. There is one post for a visit to Sag A, but otherwise, this "proposal" is the first real interaction with an ongoing community.

Add to that the fact that the message history for this proposal starts with GalNet submissions, not with the August Exodus, and it seems to me that it is an attempt to strongarm us into doing this. I know that there are background dealings in how any major group interacts with Frontier, and I know that they are not all brought to light even when they are completed. However, Twin Candles has maneuvered the August Expedition by getting the GalNet, which is to say, Frontier, involved prior to getting us on board. That smacks of attempting a fait accompli.

I don't believe we can get away from the BGS, but I do think that Jaques should be immune. He owns the station, and it is, in effect, his private residence as well as his business.

Now, since I am a believer in solutions when I present problems, I believe we can solve this, with Frontier's help, by finding, or, if Frontier is willing, moving an ELW for Twin Candle's endevour. It would need to be in close proximity to the station, and we would need some method of delivery, maybe a small outpost. This would be an opportunity for another CG where players bring in whatever commodities are needed to establish a basic space station with Commodities Exchange and some other basic services.

I would even go so far as to say that it be controlled by Twin Candles, at least initially. Turn about being fair play, other players deserve to have the opportunity to establish factions there.
 
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I would even go so far as to say that it be controlled by Twin Candles, at least initially. Turn about being fair play, other players deserve to have the opportunity to establish factions there.

i really don't want to be the devils advocate here, but, even if (let's assume it for a moment) FD would set Jaques as the controlling faction in his station (and system), as they have done it with the pilots federation at founder world, there are still things to consider...

as an exampel: HIP 19072, the Alliance research center "Cooper Research Centre", controlled by Cooper Research Associates - around 40 ly from maia. shortly after it was set up, "The Anthill Mob" expanded into that system (The Anthill Mob is Maias controlling faction, backed by a constant stream of players running long-range smuggling missions from maia). Cooper Research itself expanded to Maia, and is ever since in a permanent cycle of Expansion and Retreat (because it is really hard for any faction beside Anthill Mob to get influence in Maia. Anthill Mob is an Anarchy, and therefor doesn't sufffer from fines and gaining bounties). Since expansion, Anthill Mob gains slowly influence - the moment they will have enough, to give out missions in HIP 19072 reliable, e.g. a functional mission board, i foresee HIP 19072 being under control of the Anthill Mob as it is Maia. now, if this was (or is?) blocked by FDev, you'd still get a permanent war between Anthill Mob and Cooper Research Associates "for system control", only that it would have no ending, because control is fixed.

from a BGS perspective this could be countered by givin all faction in the new bubble matching goverment types, so that only elections could happen.

now, from a lore perspective, i absolutely love the idea of anti-slavoury, of slaves fighting for freedom etc. it makes a great story.

but if i look at the reactions of most explorers concerning the pirates factions in maia, or players reaction to lockdown at founders world, i assume that most explorers would have preferred, if maia and obsidian orbital would have been a safe harbor, far away from the fights and struggles of the bubble, as most prefer founders world being not part of powerplay, and ask for making it tabu for BGS effect.

from my perspective, the idea of this "player driven content" doesn't fit to what most people would like to have happen around jaques.

maybe i am mistaken.

but i really don't see many people embracing civil war with reduced security, lockdown with closing down system services, or slavers and anti-slavers shooting/opposing each other, or by killing non-wanted ships - when approacing jaques in their explorer ships with some mining capabilities.

i'd say: be carefull what you wish for.
 
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