Automation and Scripting - An investigation into further abuses of BGS and Powerplay
- Thread starter CMDR Tom D
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Bots in a game are not good for the game. I’ve played a number of MMOs where I’ve come across farming bots and have reported them to the developers. I’ve also heard of games being so over run by bots that players got fed up and quit causing the game to shut down.
The problem with bot detection in ED is that the game environment is huge and we have 3 modes. Like other MMOs, the devs cannot be everywhere and automatic bot detection tools are cumbersome and can be circumvented by the bot programmers. So like other MMOs the devs rely on us to help police the game. And I for one would gladly report on any bot like behavior if I see one and can safely say that what I’m seeing is a bot. But this can be very difficult to do. The OP and his friends took the time to investigate the issue, time that not all of us have to spare.
Another thing, sometime back there was a huge pro-botter thread on these forums. And a number of CMDRs on these forums seemed to have been supporting it. The thread was asking FDev to implement autopilot from station to station cause the OP found it tedious to fly. Some even used the bot navigation program that was showcased in this OPs video, to justify FDev implementing this feature. This would have resulted in greater ease of bot programming and would have been used as a signal to botters that FDev supported this behaviour. There were even those who asked for an auto-trader to be implemented by FDev cause they claimed that they had no interest in trade but “needed” the credits to outfit their combat ship. IMO, another veiled attempt by botters to get FDev to make their botting easier. A lot of commanders got caught up in that thread supporting the cause due to their position of freedom of choice, as the botters bottled their argument around optional internal, autopilot and auto trade modules. “If you don’t like it, don’t equip it.” And also, “it does not affect my play, so why not let them have it” (though this argument has been used for a lot of things and at times it can be valid.)
TL;DR: botting in the long run, hurts an MMO whether or not it directly affects you currently. So stop supporting things that make botting easier.
P.S.: I’m not a fan of the docking computer.
The problem with bot detection in ED is that the game environment is huge and we have 3 modes. Like other MMOs, the devs cannot be everywhere and automatic bot detection tools are cumbersome and can be circumvented by the bot programmers. So like other MMOs the devs rely on us to help police the game. And I for one would gladly report on any bot like behavior if I see one and can safely say that what I’m seeing is a bot. But this can be very difficult to do. The OP and his friends took the time to investigate the issue, time that not all of us have to spare.
Another thing, sometime back there was a huge pro-botter thread on these forums. And a number of CMDRs on these forums seemed to have been supporting it. The thread was asking FDev to implement autopilot from station to station cause the OP found it tedious to fly. Some even used the bot navigation program that was showcased in this OPs video, to justify FDev implementing this feature. This would have resulted in greater ease of bot programming and would have been used as a signal to botters that FDev supported this behaviour. There were even those who asked for an auto-trader to be implemented by FDev cause they claimed that they had no interest in trade but “needed” the credits to outfit their combat ship. IMO, another veiled attempt by botters to get FDev to make their botting easier. A lot of commanders got caught up in that thread supporting the cause due to their position of freedom of choice, as the botters bottled their argument around optional internal, autopilot and auto trade modules. “If you don’t like it, don’t equip it.” And also, “it does not affect my play, so why not let them have it” (though this argument has been used for a lot of things and at times it can be valid.)
TL;DR: botting in the long run, hurts an MMO whether or not it directly affects you currently. So stop supporting things that make botting easier.
P.S.: I’m not a fan of the docking computer.
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In what is a cat & mouse game between the botters and devs, suggesting solutions publicly might be counter-productive.
The bottom line is that the most sophisticated bots will never be caught simply by detection mechanisms. That doesn't mean detection mechanisms shouldn't be implemented, as they can still be effective against unsophisticated bots, especially the one seen in the OP's vid for example.
I think captchas are a reasonable solution if they don't annoy the general player base too much. To do that, I'd suggest a contextual captcha every few hours, but only for repetitive behaviour; multiple hours of trading between the same two stations for example. Successive captcha failures (or a pattern of captcha failures indicative of human intervention after a bot fails) should flag the account with FDev for closer attention.
rep for the wanderer!
Captchas could even be built into the game's lore. As you're coming in to dock, the station says "Hello commander, to dock set your transponder frequency to <some number> and we'll assign a pad." You type in that number into the comms panel, and the station then says "thank you, reading you loud and clear. Your pad is <pad number>." Also, you can't use the docking computer until you've been assigned a pad.
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I've never used a docking computer and think that it should be removed from the game... But I know a lot of people unable to fly their ships properly rely on it, so...
Elite is a very hands on game with no AI or automatic systems.. Even limpets took a while to enter the game, before them, you had to manually hoover up cargo...
Yes, a perfect example of what I called "contextual captcha". But it would be too annoying to do that every time you dock. I'd hope such a captcha would only appear under certain conditions, eg. after hours of repetitive behaviour, as I suggested earlier.
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TLDR captcha??? I saw someone else mention it, but as my playergroup & friends in this game know, I am a potato. EL5?
I have, page eight [yesnod]
Thankfully it's quite easy to dismiss opinions from someone who simply wants to change someone else's gameplay experience. Your position on whether other commanders should or should not be able to use DC's isn't relevant.
How very dare people make video games for profit.
To be honest I don't really believe that.
If you've ever followed an NPC around you'll know they just jump around aimlessly.
Try it, find a nice trader ship a T7 or similar, manifest scan it, to see it's carrying a 200 domestic appliances (or whatever), then follow it from system to system. You will see how important those domestic appliances are to the economy as the NPC just jumps around never actually delivering them.
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That is assuming it doesn't end up crashing against the star..
To be honest I think captchas in a game are a ridiculous idea.
Let's be honest most of us don't really care whether there's some bot doing stuff somewhere.
However, it clearly is an issue for folk doing Powerplay though, perhaps some sort of captcha system limited to Powerplay only?
I don't do PP though, so not sure if that's feasible.
For a captcha maybe have the player identify an ED ship image, it needs to be something easy.
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Doh, sorry just catching up with the thread, yeah.
Unfortunately, that would be useless against script bots which excel at pattern matching a measly 30 images. Even if you had 4 or 5 images per ship, chances are they'd get captured and matched by a determined bot developer. The previous suggestions are much better, especially if the captcha only appears to those repeating tasks for extended periods.
Well you'd randomly generate it based off the ship model.
I'm not saying it's not a bad idea, just that obviously you wouldn't use 30 static images, that would be silly.
Yes that might work, but I hope I never have to do it. I suspect I'd fail half the time if it's from a truly random angle.
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