Automation and Scripting - An investigation into further abuses of BGS and Powerplay

[Martin Schou]

Cudos to the OP for a most awesome investigation.

That said... how exactly does the BGS actually mess up game play? If there's morons stamping sand castles, just go somewhere they aren't.

The BGS doesn't mess up gameplay. Manipulating the BGS is gameplay itself.

As for going somewhere they aren't, that's not really doable. These suspected bots are deliberately targeting the work we've spent close to three years working on. If non-bots were doing it, that'd be perfectly fine - that's part of the game, and we play on an even playing ground. However, bots are not an even playing field.

 

[Martin Schou]

Serious +rep to the OP (and people who helped him) for the thorough work and investigation here.

The one thing I'm not understanding is why would people repeatedly make bots for this purpose? In most games bots are made so that in-game money or the accounts themselves can be sold for real-world cash. Why would people continue to spend money on new accounts just so that they can artificially influence the BGS and powerplay?

Not at all doubting that they're doing it. I just don't get it.

I seriously doubt that the bot makers and the people behind the accounts we've found are the same people. Think about it - how many of the people who use VoiceAttack are people who helped make VoiceAttack? The vast majority simply bought it because it is a helpful tool to them.

As for why ... crazy people do crazy things all the time.

 

[Vorxian]

It's time. Send in the cavalry.

 

[GG7]

No, you don´t need to take it seriously, because you are not resposible for the game, which is by the way a very good thing.

I just don´t want to have Frontier wasting time for a problem that seems to be ..lets say... low priority.

WOW!

This infection could just as easily be turned to directly effecting your personal gameplay. Its all up to those controlling these bots. They have chosen their first targets and been highly effective at screwing with them in a major way. When they turn their focus to more common use areas of the game, even the terminally clueless will likely feel the impact.

The myopic opinions of some around here is truly mind blowing! Only giving a crap if it directly affects them, and cluelessly dismissing any concerns as being "Low Priority" until it does.

Again... WOW!

 

[ries]

/triggered

 

[Zak Gordon]

For the solo only explorers the effort is probably wasted, but do we want E: D to be a solo only explorers game?

Just popped in to say YES PLEASE. It would fix the majority of the games issues over-night

Having said that I also wanted to offer thanks to the OP and posters that helped in digging into all this further, it will surely be of use to FD going forward. Thank god this game does not offer a pay to win model option, or these kind of issues would be the single issue we all would be facing any time trying to play, and all the dev assets needed to fix it; would make new content hard to push out!

 

[Crank Larson]

It's time. Send in the cavalry.

I think that someone should point out that her gun is obviously made of plastic, and pointing it at anyone with that expression on her face is simply going to cause mass hysterics (of the laughter kind).

Oh, it's ok, I can point it out.

 

[GG7]

it can imply that but it doesnt always

like the OP could be looking out his window at his neighbor Sarah and keeping notes on when she comes and goes and who she meets up with, detailed records of the license plates of cars that visit her house and building dossiers on boys he sees over there all without her ever knowing he doing it

its not a normal behavior though u see?

I really wish those on the losing side of an argument / wrong side of history would learn to cut their losses and stop trying to defend an indefensible position.

As others have already stated... You need to put some time into learning how to form a sentence before you go on to bigger things, like challenging well documented evidence.

Some of us DID read the entire report and DID watch the supplied video.

 

[Andovar]

Neither are the bots. Hence this thread regarding the lack of action on FDEV's part

According to the OP, they have had their accounts closed.
That was part of the gripe, the ED sales that allowed new accounts to be purchased cheaply to replace the closed ones.

 

[sollisb]

I really wish those on the losing side of an argument / wrong side of history would learn to cut their losses and stop trying to defend an indefensible position.

As others have already stated... You need to put some time into learning how to form a sentence before you go on to bigger things, like challenging well documented evidence.

Some of us DID read the entire report and DID watch the supplied video.

I hate to point it out to you, but you need to learn how to form coherent sentences, before flaming others.

lol, you ninja edited

 

[GG7]

According to the OP, they have had their accounts closed.
That was part of the gripe, the ED sales that allowed new accounts to be purchased cheaply to replace the closed ones.

Which is insanity at its highest level! Profits over integrity does not a lasting company make!

The clock is ticking at this point... Those of us who have seen this all play out before with other games knows that there is a finite period of time for Frontier to do the right thing.

Once the tipping point has been reached, it will be a simple case of diminishing returns, until all that is left of this community are noobs and bots.

Oh! And the pathetically clueless in this thread that don't think any of this matters.

 

[Andovar]

Which is insanity at its highest level! Profits over integrity does not a lasting company make!

come now, you're making a bit of a leap there.
They surely didn't say "hey, we just closed a bunch of bot/cheater accounts, so lets put ED on sale now so we can make a quick buck on all those accounts buying in again"

 

[CMDR Tom D]

According to the OP, they have had their accounts closed.
That was part of the gripe, the ED sales that allowed new accounts to be purchased cheaply to replace the closed ones.

They were seemingly rather inconsistent with their action. Some were banned, some weren't. All that were perm banned were replaced by more.

In answer to your question "why spend money and time on this", we don't know. We're still trying to figure that one out. Leading theory is its a rival trying to knock us from our top spot in powerplay. The BGS side is a distraction to take our resources away from PP.

But the jury's still out on this one.

 

[sollisb]

Which is insanity at its highest level! Profits over integrity does not a lasting company make!

The clock is ticking at this point... Those of us who have seen this all play out before with other games knows that there is a finite period of time for Frontier to do the right thing.

Once the tipping point has been reached, it will be a simple case of diminishing returns, until all that is left of this community are noobs and bots.

I'm neither a noob nor a bot. Yet I have zero interest in the BGS or PP. And I'm sure there are thousands more just like me. Claiming all doom and gloom get's no-where. If you sat back and thought about it, there is little can be done. Every game on the internet has some kind of cheating mechanisms, or bots. All the publisher can do is ban when they catch and try as best they can, to reduce the ability to create the bots. When those bots are not interfering with memory address space, it is very very difficult to defend against.

Obviously I'm open to hearing a workable idea. The captcha would work, but how feasible is it really? Are you going to force every player to use your captcha and expect open arms?

 

[GG7]

come now, you're making a bit of a leap there.
They surely didn't say "hey, we just closed a bunch of bot/cheater accounts, so lets put ED on sale now so we can make a quick buck on all those accounts buying in again"

I really have to spell it out for you? OMG!

The fact that 5 pound versions of the full game are available, it isn't much of a financial hit for those getting perma-banned to simply buy another half dozen or more accounts to replace the ones they lost.

You have to remember that despite there likely being no real monetary gain involved here... There is a lot of personal time invested by these A holes! Not to mention they are likely getting HIGH on the thrill of screwing with a well known game like ED.

You think they are just going to pack up and go home when all their accounts get shut down? No! They are going to buy a bunch more when Frontier puts it on sale for 5 pounds! Would they be so quick to rebuy all those lost accounts if the game was selling for its normal price?

This isn't rocket science. Although this simple concept appears to offer a similar challenge for some around here. [rolleyes]

 

[Andovar]

I really have to spell it out to you? Seriously?

The fact that 5 pound versions of the full game are available, it isn't much of a financial hit for those getting perma-banned to simply buy another half dozen or more accounts to replace the ones they lost.

You have to remember that despite there likely being no real monetary gain involved here... There is a lot of personal time invested by these A holes! Not to mention they are likely getting HIGH on the thrill of screwing with a well known game like ED.

You think they are just going to pack up and go home when all their accounts get shut down? No! They are going to buy a bunch more when Frontier puts it on sale for 5 pounds!

This isn't rocket science. Although this simple concept appears to be an even bigger challenge for some around here. [rolleyes]

i think we're arguing different points here.
I'm saying that I don't believe that FD intentionally put ED on sale specifically to make sales from the users of the accounts they locked/banned.

 

[GG7]

i think we're arguing different points here.
I'm saying that I don't believe that FD intentionally put ED on sale specifically to make sales from the users of the accounts they locked/banned.

I'm saying that selling the game so cheap in light of their full knowledge of what is going on with this bot situation is tone deaf, irresponsible and dangerous.

There is no way they haven't considered that the 5 pound game sales are directly responsible for making it easy and CHEAP for owners of banned accounts to get back into the game, and continue their nefarious activities where they left off.

In light of all the evidence we have seen in this thread, which was privately presented to FDEV months ago, they are obviously choosing to look the other way for profits sake. Which is where the whole integrity thing comes in.

 

[Deareim]

I'm saying that selling the game so cheap in light of their full knowledge of what is going on with this bot situation is tone deaf, irresponsible and dangerous. There is no way they haven't considered that the 5 pound game sales are directly responsible for making it easy and CHEAP for owners of banned accounts to get back into the game, and continue their nefarious activities where they left off.In light of all the evidence we have seen that was presented to FDEV months ago, they are obviously choosing to look the other way for profits sake. Which is where the whole integrity thing comes in.

WHAT ??? A company which want to make profit ???!!! Incredible....News of the week, maybe month.

 

[sollisb]

I'm saying that selling the game so cheap in light of their full knowledge of what is going on with this bot situation is tone deaf, irresponsible and dangerous.

There is no way they haven't considered that the 5 pound game sales are directly responsible for making it easy and CHEAP for owners of banned accounts to get back into the game, and continue their nefarious activities where they left off.

In light of all the evidence we have seen in this thread, which was privately presented to FDEV months ago, they are obviously choosing to look the other way for profits sake. Which is where the whole integrity thing comes in.

No sales = no wages = no developers = no game...

 

[GG7]

WHAT ??? A company which want to make profit ???!!! Incredible....News of the week, maybe month.

Not even going to bother... [rolleyes]