Balance concerning low ranked players in big ships (Naval rank rant)

[[VR] Goooost]

Nah, that's still just as shallow of a mechanic as the one that's in place. Naval Ship Unlocks should be earned through difficult mission strings. After completing a minor 'storyline' one of the final missions will say something like,
"Once again we must ask too much of you, -pilot name-. Due to the danger of this next set of missions, the Federation has given me permission to grant you access to their entire inventory of technology and warships, including the mighty Corvette. Furthermore if you check your account balance, you'll see that you've received a 15 million credit bonus".
Furthermore there should be different licenses that you need to unlock or purchase. Missile weapons license. Class III weapons License. Capital Warship License. stuff like that which adds to your own personal progression. Because I agree that just having money in the bank shouldn't be everything that matters.

 

[Shiro Akai]

(...)there are certainly more players with either the cutter or the corvette, (...) many of these players which have invested so little time and effort into the game shouldn't be in possession of those ships. It feels wrong in the eyes of anyone else who has done and invested the time in a non exploitative way.

All right, I'll bite.

I'm such "unworthy" CMDR, mostly harmless in combat, broker in trade and pioneer in exploration. On top of that Imperial Navy King and Federation Navy Admiral. Achieved both ranks within 10 days total about 3 weeks ago after FDEVs introduced changes in patch 3.0. I have anaconda, Cutter and if not credits issues I'd have Corvette as well.

Reading quote above I see elitist snowflake that has a massive rear hurt. "Boo-hoo, I had to spent months of time to get to Cutter/Corvette unlock while nowadays people reach King/Admiral within a week."

Yes, people get within a week what you had to do for months. Get over it.
Oh, and by your logic you should throw away your PC/console, plasma/LCD TV, fridge, washing machine, radio, car, smartphone, mp3 player, any fancy electronic, modern clothing. Why?

Because 50 years ago people had to work much harder and longer to get anything from that list, it was a luxury, high tech and not available to everyone. Your grandparents had to work hard to get a radio or tv and it "feels wrong in their eyes" to see how teenagers have easy access to tv, radio, phone, car, fridge, etc.

Game changes and you can do two things: adapt or qq. Your post showed what you picked.
And btw - I didn't achieved any of my ranks "in an exploitive way". FDEVs said: "you want rank? run missions with REP +++ or higher and you will get there". So I did it, dedicated few evenings and I can enjoy my Cutter.

Sorry for the harsh response but I'm sick of that argument "because it was harder back then". If you feel it was better when it was harder then do as I proposed - throw away all your electronics, kitchen appliances and car you own and work equally hard as your grandparents to get those.

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

The ranking system is borked.

It shouldn't be possible to become Rear Admiral or King, or whatever, by being a messenger boy.

Military rank, should involve some military type service. Doesn't have to be direct pew pew combat, but it should involve some elements of danger.
Like, say, repair ships in a CZ, or refuel them. Support roles, as well as combat roles. Or something.

Rank up missions should be challenging to (for their rank, getting more difficult as you progress). Rank 1 might be deliver 2t military poo 5ly. But rank 5+ would be deliver 1000t of stolen military poo, 250ly, while being chasing by an opposing faction. Or something.

 

[Muetdhiver]

I never chased the ranks very hard...I had the 'points' to get the ranks...I never got the rank up missions to finish.

I decided to get the ranks....and when I finally started getting the rank ups...I was set at King and Admiral....who knew?

Playing the game normal (i.e. avoiding farming) got me to one rank above the clipper one.

But for the cutter, unless playing for like 1 year or two in imperial space I can't see how I could have got to king or other such high ranks.
Kudos to you sir ^^

 

[Marra Morgan]

The last time I checked I had to pay for a rank-locked ship.
We can’t become members of the navy, we become members of the navy auxiliary.
Ranks in the Navy auxiliary isn’t based on ability, but on social status - like the way it was in many armies/navies before 1900.

Players in this game have no influence, are just mercenaries who can buy surplus spaceships after having worked enough fore a super-power.

This is an important point to consider when discussing the rank system. Players are as much Kings or Admirals as Kanye West has a doctorate - they a purely honourary titles.

Sure, it needs more depth, but it shouldn't be treating players as military regulars; as pointed out elsewhere in the thread, it will get quite dull!

Personally, I would like to see missions that would be appropriate for mercs / auxilliaries - covert ops which give the superpower plausible deniability. Frontier (Elite 2) had some fun recon missions, assassinations and ground-strikes that were required at the higher levels, while the fetch-and-carry stuff was for the lower ranks.

Even I would consider being a superpower-lapdog-sellout if they bought some of that back!

 

[oscarolim]

It has come to my attention after the release of 3.0, that there are certainly more players with either the cutter or the corvette, given the changes they made towards mission rewards and the reputation gain with the corresponding federation or imperial navy ranks many of these players which have invested so little time and effort into the game shouldn't be in possession of those ships. It feels wrong in the eyes of anyone else who has done and invested the time in a non exploitative way.

How is it possible to see, harmless or competent ranked players with such ship?. As someone who has served in the military just feels absurd.

A seaman or an officer cadet should never be given a ship because of his inexperience, rank and time served. Nor he or she should be promoted to Admiral by just playing messenger and never delving into combat, which is why the navy rank system is a badly implemented.

Changes should be made so that Missions that contributes towards the gain and levelling of naval ranks are exclusive to military related activities, Massacre missions, Assassinations, and such. I also believe that the best way to effectively deal of the issue with new players getting the big ship is to lock the Corvette behind a high combat rank, and the cutter behind a higher trading rank and lower combat rank, and both ships alongside the naval rank accordingly.

Edit: Corrections made.

Harmless and Competent are combat ranks.

Did you know there are 3 (4 with CQC) ranks in Elite? You can also make a living in Exploration and Trade. Amazing right? You could reach Elite in either Trade or Exploration without ever shooting a weapon.

 

[sollisb]

Who says I'm taking it seriously? I'm saying the Naval Rank needs some work. I invested quite some time to get my corvette, just to see a bunch of newcomers get it in a day and then complaining they can't fight in it, there is clearly a bad progression gap for certain players.

Can you post one thread where someone complains they cannot fly their new corvette or cutter?

How long were you in the military, before they let you fire a gun?

Is there a difference between say a small gun and a big gun?

I'll be honest, I smell some jealousy afoot..

 

[AsukaZ]

...
Personally, I would like to see missions that would be appropriate for mercs / auxilliaries - covert ops which give the superpower plausible deniability. Frontier (Elite 2) had some fun recon missions, assassinations and ground-strikes that were required at the higher levels, while the fetch-and-carry stuff was for the lower ranks.

Even I would consider being a superpower-lapdog-sellout if they bought some of that back!

Fully agree with that !

I miss the photography missions from FFE, coming in low and fast on the deck to avoid radar with a dozen NPCs hot on your tail dodging flak to approach within 10km for that all important happy snap of a planetary base (bonus credit for a shot <5km), then the escape back to orbit and away. Something like that anyway as example.

 

[Raino]

Can you post one thread where someone complains they cannot fly their new corvette or cutter?

check the bug reports about sticking in the mailslot, or in the fences. Or this one " We need an undock-computer to leave the station". people writing reports about been killed cause of no skills or simple stupidity, there are lots off those already and the number will rise cause off cheesed ships flying without rebuy and later blaming the game for the loss

 

[Darth Llama]

Harmless and Competent are combat ranks.

Did you know there are 3 (4 with CQC) ranks in Elite? You can also make a living in Exploration and Trade. Amazing right? You could reach Elite in either Trade or Exploration without ever shooting a weapon.

Not sure how it is that people keep forgetting this seemingly obvious fact.

Just because someone with a Cutter shows as 'Harmless' doesn't mean they're new or don't know what they're doing. For all you know, they're Elite in Trade and/or Exploration and spent months grinding the rank. Either way, you're doing nothing more then making assumptions.

People would enjoy this game a whole lot more if they worried less about what everyone else was doing and what everyone else had and focused more on themselves. Play the game the way you enjoy and let everyone else do the same.

 

[Kayweg]

Hey, a lot of people in my country voted for that guy.

One of those rare posts that genuinely made me laugh.
Brilliant.

 

[Deareim]

Why do you care about oother players and how they are playing? Just get out and breath.

 

[Brrokk]

There's a thread elsewhere about the "PvP-PvE split". I think there's an even bigger split between those who think of this as a combat game and those who don't. It's hardly possible to exaggerate what a profound difference this makes in your view of the game. A non-combat player is likely to be Elite in trade and/or exploration at the same time as being low ranked in combat. They'll probably hardly ever fit weapons and end up very rich because of avoiding rebuys. "Balance" is something that just doesn't exist in the game as far as they are concerned, because they have no need ever to compare their ship with that of another player.

I can't see any justification for telling such players that they can't spend their credits on Anacondas, Cutters and Corvettes (although I guess the Corvette is not likely to be one they want). Combat rank is irrelevant to how well you can fly an unarmed Anaconda.

Let's just realise that people are different and not pretend that there is a right way to enjoy this game.

(I like to say that if we ever contact aliens, we won't stand a chance of understanding them, because so far we can't even understand other humans!)

 

[Darth Llama]

There's a thread elsewhere about the "PvP-PvE split". I think there's an even bigger split between those who think of this as a combat game and those who don't. It's hardly possible to exaggerate what a profound difference this makes in your view of the game. A non-combat player is likely to be Elite in trade and/or exploration at the same time as being low ranked in combat. They'll probably hardly ever fit weapons and end up very rich because of avoiding rebuys. "Balance" is something that just doesn't exist in the game as far as they are concerned, because they have no need ever to compare their ship with that of another player.

I can't see any justification for telling such players that they can't spend their credits on Anacondas, Cutters and Corvettes (although I guess the Corvette is not likely to be one they want). Combat rank is irrelevant to how well you can fly an unarmed Anaconda.

Let's just realise that people are different and not pretend that there is a right way to enjoy this game.

(I like to say that if we ever contact aliens, we won't stand a chance of understanding them, because so far we can't even understand other humans!)

Well said!

 

[Scryder]

Naval ranks are badly implemented. The reason I gave up on the game last year was getting bored of trying to rank up Fed and getting bored. This was after 120 hours invested (according to Steam) and not finding much cash or rank increase. I was just getting bored of my Asp Explorer. At the time I didn't know about any of the so called "exploits" as I didn't follow the game online (think I only knew about Scott Manley's vids at the time and only used it to see how to fly the ship).

I got back into the game last month after several false starts. Previously when I tried to get back in, I remembered the boredom and monotony of the grind and could not do that to myself! So this time I made enough money to try ranking up again. Missions are still as boring as last year and to be honest, the "rewards" for ranking up don't amount to much. After grinding for the rank and getting a Cutter, it felt a bit anti-climatic. This was what I spent all those hours to get?! So I can fly 2 rank locked ships... big deal. The rewards do not feel sufficient for the time invested getting there. I still haven't got a Corvette, but do enjoy blowing NPC's corvettes with my Python.

I don't play online, SOLO only. What I do in my game does not affect anyone else (yes I know about the background sim, but I usually don't bother with stuff like that or CG). I didn't buy the game as an MMO, I played Elite Plus back in the day and that was why I got the game. I still have memories of flying from station to station and making up my own narrative. So having faux MMO grind does not appeal to me.

Back to OP's point, what does it matter what other players do in game. That's how they want to enjoy it, and it's not affecting you in any way. I don't get this attitude. After all, it's only a game and currently Naval Rank mean nothing. Also as I saw in someone's video; how can you be a duke in one navy and an admiral in another at the same time? Not very immersive there![haha]

 

[lokvette]

If the ranks ment anything then I might have a problem with how people got there, as they dont I really dont mind if little Billy skipped to the end to get into the ship/s of his choice.

Ive got to Duke in the 1400 or so hours ive played dont own a Cutter, and only got to Chief Petty Oiffcer with the Feds, as said they mean nothing bar being able to fly a ship or two, which you then need the money to buy and fit, again how people go about that is off no concern to me. Also I have Explorer Elite, Combat is Dangerous and trade is Tycon, but been flying a Conda since I could afford one.

But yeah they really could do with a work over to give the whole rank thing some sort of meaningfull meaning.

 

[Troz]

Luxury.

We used to live in paper bag in middle of road.

 

[Thebadmf]

This thread makes me sad. Some people just can't stand to see other people have nice things. I really don't understand why it matters to you how others got their ships... live and let live. Enjoy your own game!

 

[VR Murgle]

Imagine if everyone in the federal navy made admiral, that would seriously mess with the chain of command.

"Admiral, attack the target!"
"No admiral you attack the target!"
"Admiral if you do not respect the proper cha..."

and things get even worse on the imperial side.

"Your Highness, engage the enemy!"
"I'm sorry Your Highness, what did you just say?"
"I just gave you an order Your Highness!"
"I thought that's what you did. Off with his head!"

 

[Drazkul]

It has come to my attention after the release of 3.0, that there are certainly more players with either the cutter or the corvette, given the changes they made towards mission rewards and the reputation gain with the corresponding federation or imperial navy ranks many of these players which have invested so little time and effort into the game shouldn't be in possession of those ships. It feels wrong in the eyes of anyone else who has done and invested the time in a non exploitative way.

How is it possible to see, harmless or competent ranked players with such ship?. As someone who has served in the military just feels absurd.

A seaman or an officer cadet should never be given a ship because of his inexperience, rank and time served. Nor he or she should be promoted to Admiral by just playing messenger and never delving into combat, which is why the navy rank system is a badly implemented.

Changes should be made so that Missions that contributes towards the gain and levelling of naval ranks are exclusive to military related activities, Massacre missions, Assassinations, and such. I also believe that the best way to effectively deal of the issue with new players getting the big ship is to lock the Corvette behind a high combat rank, and the cutter behind a higher trading rank and lower combat rank, and both ships alongside the naval rank accordingly.

Edit: Corrections made.

I'm one of the mostly harmless who has a Corvette

Ok it may be on my PS4 account and my PC account had already done the rank grind before 3.0 so I dont feel guilty of having the ability to buy them on it (I also have access to the Cutter on both accounts).