PvP Behold, the great Fdev Ganker filter..

[Havvk]

1 - Why? The PVE guys don't want to play with us or Mobius and private group wouldn't be a thing.

2 - Give us something in the game where PvP actually matters. Why do you care about what we want to do in our own sandbox?

3 - You can keep your open/PG/solo "Prime" ED. But I and many others would like a better, separate option.

1 - Because that's what the other 2 modes are for, if they don't want pewpew pvp or whatever. Next question.

2 - I already brought up a few suggestions in threats relating to this kind of problem before. But nobody pays attention in favor of OOPP because "waaah I can't kill helpless carebears" Dude, if you want that, then just kill NPCs at this point.

3 - And hear you and moan about that too, like everybody(including myself) did with CQC?

NO.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

Read my previous posts again, or go back to reading comprehension classes.

I want CQC to be a part of the game, no gently caressing poopoo it isn't as of now.

Stop repeating yourself, we know that already. Never once have I implied that CQC is a part of the main game. I only mention that I would love for it to be, because it had good potential, think about how it could have made CZ's so much better than slogging boring NPC's for hours

Yep, circlejerking with "no u" as usual.


Anybody else wishes to contribute to my thoughts without resorting to this level of idiocy?

You say these things but I'm the one that gets ignored for simply agreeing with Powerpanic's rebuttal of your original contribution to this thread? Interesting!

 

[Bigmaec]

You say these things but I'm the one that gets ignored for simply agreeing with Powerpanic's rebuttal of your original contribution to this thread? Interesting!

No u

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Oh yea, It's fair. Can't have that in PvP right? It's too challenging

CQC is not remotely fair. A quick glance at the "I was playing CQC and then I died repeatedly" threads that pop up from time to time will confirm that. The ship loadouts are roughly comparable for all players, and your side can't be outnumbered more than 2:1 in a team fight. All other forms of unfairness are present. (Indeed, in certain circumstances, the team matchmaker will put four beginners up against four Elites quite happily, though it was probably technically the beginners' fault in that case for telling it to)

As for challenging, my PvP skills are strictly mediocre, and I do pretty well in CQC (or I did, when I was more in practice, anyway). Most of the well-known gankers would win without difficulty versus me in any of my main game PvP ships, though.



Conversely main game PvP fights don't have to be strict mirror matches to be fair - I had a good fight once with an FDL, Anaconda and Viper III versus a lone Anaconda (the Viper III was D-rated and unengineered, the Anaconda in the wing was a converted exploration build, and the FDL - mine - had some questionable weapons choices) which ended in an eventual draw (the lone Anaconda almost out of shields, having driven off the other two and run out my ammo). Sure, the average gank is way more one-sided than that. But rigid symmetry is not the only way to get an even fight either.

 

[Havvk]

-snip-

Well, I won't deny that much. The fact remains that any semblance of any one side having a fighting chance is immediately shot down by a select(and unnamed) community in this game. Because "git gud" is a valid excuse when they say it. Yet when they themselves are put in that situation, telling them 'git gud' is borderline heresy and yada yada

 

[XanderVekk]

1 - Because that's what the other 2 modes are for, if they don't want pewpew pvp or whatever. Next question.

2 - I already brought up a few suggestions in threats relating to this kind of problem before. But nobody pays attention in favor of OOPP because "waaah I can't kill helpless carebears" Dude, if you want that, then just kill NPCs at this point.

3 - And hear you and moan about that too, like everybody(including myself) did with CQC?

NO.

YES!

Are you honestly comparing a crappy instant combat CQC game with a full open-only PvP experience with strategic conquest and objectives? One where it would be challenge enough just to get engineered?

THAT is what we want. Look, we can't have open only powerplay because the PVE players cry. So give us our own open only ED instance somewhere that we can. Again, why do you care? It doesn't affect the non existent player economy if we do. The universe won't be any more empty than your crappy solo instance already is. Let's make it happen.

 

[Havvk]

THAT is what we want. Look, we can't have open only powerplay because the PVE players cry. So give us our own open only ED instance somewhere that we can. Again, why do you care? It doesn't affect the non existent player economy if we do. The universe won't be any more empty than your crappy solo instance already is. Let's make it happen.

That's what YOU want, not us. I'm PvE only because PvP is meaningless. Power Play has no benefit outside of its 2 toys that are even worth waiting a month for, even then that's barely worth the time and effort. CQC was a dumpster fire, and nobody cares about real PvP. It's all about ganking for salt, because nobody wants to admit that they miss Eve Online

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

It's all about ganking for salt, because nobody wants to admit that they miss Eve Online

It's like you're playing a different game.

 

[Sethiest]

Because in the end of the day, no matter if it be bounty hunting, piracy or PP, there is literally no reason to do this outside of trying to mine salt from the victim.

I don't bounty hunt players to mine salt. I dont know if that counts for anything. To be honest I don't think you should feel bad about killing wanted criminals. I mean think of it like this....

Players can steal, murder etc with minimal consequences. NPC's won't be a challenge, you can solo wing missions in engineered ships. The ATR are formidable, but they were only really added as a "developer cannon" to stop exploits. So the only people that can actually police the galaxy are..well....the other people.

I was in Deciat the other day looking for wanted criminals, because I wanted to protect new CMDRS, deter gankers, punish those who I killed (KWS) and generally engage in fun PvP in a way that I consider moral.* Sure I got blown up more times that I blew up others, but I count 4 murderers chased out of Deciat and one succesful bounty, see this thread. That was rewarding and I enjoyed doing it.

*Thats not to say I find what people do as immoral. Only that in game I consider the player CMDRs as "baddies.

 

[Havvk]

I don't bounty hunt players to mine salt. I dont know if that counts for anything. To be honest I don't think you should feel bad about killing wanted criminals. I mean think of it like this....

Players can steal, murder etc with minimal consequences. NPC's won't be a challenge, you can solo wing missions in engineered ships. The ATR are formidable, but they were only really added as a "developer cannon" to stop exploits. So the only people that can actually police the galaxy are..well....the other people.

I was in Deciat the other day looking for wanted criminals, because I wanted to protect new CMDRS, deter gankers, punish those who I killed (KWS) and generally engage in fun PvP in a way that I consider moral.* Sure I got blown up more times that I blew up others, but I count 4 murderers chased out of Deciat and one succesful bounty, see this thread. That was rewarding and I enjoyed doing it.

*Thats not to say I find what people do as immoral. Only that in game I consider the player CMDRs as "baddies.

I really hate repeating myself, so this is the last time. This is in regard to the in-game mechanics, there's no reason to do any pvp(unless it's those friendly staged duels for some dumb reason) other than making the other person salty to some degree..whether you are intending for salt or not.

Roleplay is an argument, yes. But nobody plays space DnD in this game 24/7. Hell, I don't even role play all that much, so when I blow somebody up how am I supposed to make them not hate me, if they do?

 

[00nutzy]

YES!

Are you honestly comparing a crappy instant combat CQC game with a full open-only PvP experience with strategic conquest and objectives? One where it would be challenge enough just to get engineered?

THAT is what we want. Look, we can't have open only powerplay because the PVE players cry. So give us our own open only ED instance somewhere that we can. Again, why do you care? It doesn't affect the non existent player economy if we do. The universe won't be any more empty than your crappy solo instance already is. Let's make it happen.

Its actually kind of funny, here you have someone from the PvP camp saying they want totally separated Pve/Pvp opens, and it is kind of defended, however when folks from the PvE camp suggested it (various hotel California threads) it gets ridiculed.
I dont get the dichotomy here but regardless the lead developers indicated it was not in the realm of possible at the time.
Personally It doesnt matter to me even if PP went open only or if there was a pvp only and a pve only open.
However if you think PvEers (at least some of them) dont want you to have your own PvP only open you are misinformed. The dren is thick and deep and has been around for a long time.

 

[Sethiest]

I really hate repeating myself, so this is the last time. This is in regard to the in-game mechanics, there's no reason to do any pvp(unless it's those friendly staged duels for some dumb reason) other than making the other person salty to some degree..whether you are intending for salt or not.

I don't like repeating myself either, so I find it odd that I have to literally repeat my original post that retorts to your post. You do not dictate what is or isn't a valid reason for someone to PvP. You can have your own opinion, thats fine. However, as I explained, I find meaning in bounty hunting. How? See the post you just quoted, as I don't like repeating myself.

Although, I'll add this regarding in game mechanics. If I kill a wanted CMDR, I get rewarded for assisting a particular part of the galaxy in finding justice. That's literally a mechanic that's in game. And those CMDRs are larger criminals than any NPC in game.

And whether or not I make others salty by playing the game as intended is just....well....asinine. I'm sure the hero I kill in Overwatch would have prefered to have beat me instead...?

Roleplay is an argument, yes. But nobody plays space DnD in this game 24/7.

You do not speak on my behalf. I play space D&D everytime I boot this game up. I bought it for that very reason. The amount I put into a game is what I get out of it.

Hell, I don't even role play all that much, so when I blow somebody up how am I supposed to make them not hate me, if they do?

Have you heard of the Code? A famous pirate group. Well, one of their members challenged me to a duel. We fought, he won, we chatted and he mentioned as I use a KWS I'm considered "kill on site". We also laughed and made eachother aware that it's never personal.

So yeah, I don't hate them if they blow me up. They're role playing, so am I.

Honestly I'm flabberghasted that you'd go so far as to take issue with PvP bounty hunting. Ganking I can understand. But literally playing the game in one of the most easily proved to be as intended ways is mind boggling.

 

[XanderVekk]

Its actually kind of funny, here you have someone from the PvP camp saying they want totally separated Pve/Pvp opens, and it is kind of defended, however when folks from the PvE camp suggested it (various hotel California threads) it gets ridiculed.
I dont get the dichotomy here but regardless the lead developers indicated it was not in the realm of possible at the time.
Personally It doesnt matter to me even if PP went open only or if there was a pvp only and a pve only open.
However if you think PvEers (at least some of them) dont want you to have your own PvP only open you are misinformed. The dren is thick and deep and has been around for a long time.

I think you're pidgeon-holing every PVP player into one neat box.

Many of us want a meaningful, strategic PvP game that's not affected by what people do in private group or solo. One where you need friends and you join a team to accomplish objectives with other people. One where PvP decides whether a player can perform an action contrary to what your power or team wants.

Some people just want to farm salt from barely engineered players who venture into open to meet new people.

See the difference? I have never killed another player that was not pledged to an enemy faction (or part of some consensual duel or PvP event.) Not once.

 

[00nutzy]

I think you're pidgeon-holing every PVP player into one neat box.

Many of us want a meaningful, strategic PvP game that's not affected by what people do in private group or solo. One where you need friends and you join a team to accomplish objectives with other people. One where PvP decides whether a player can perform an action contrary to what your power or team wants.

Some people just want to farm salt from barely engineered players who venture into open to meet new people.

See the difference? I have never killed another player that was not pledged to an enemy faction (or part of some consensual duel or PvP event.) Not once.

Actually you yourself pigeonholed. You said We as in you were speaking for all PvPers, I know you cant possible think that is true.
However you seemed to think all PvEers dont want you to have that PvP only open. I pointed out how many of the PvEers have suggested just exactly that and they get immediately ridiculed by many (most of) the PvPers taking part in those threads.
Here that didnt happen go figure.
I am not against it in any way shape or form just thought the hypocrisy needed pointing out.

 

[00nutzy]

As far as the difference, thats not anything I posted about.
The Idea that there should be a PvP only Open and a No PvP open has been around for a long time. When it gets brought up by PvEers it gets ridiculed. That is the whole point of my post. I dont have any issue with PvP or Ganking just the hypocrisy.

 

[Sethiest]

I wonder how the game would be if it took on the more traditional MMO approach to PvP and PvE. Isn't it usually area based? Could you have area/systems that are strickly PvE or PvP.

Don't know how'd they enforce that though. Maybe player killing in PvE gets you in way more trouble. Like, ATR come knocking and your rebuy is double the cost it would usually be or something.

#notagamedesigner #thinkingoutloud

 

[Havvk]

I wonder how the game would be if it took on the more traditional MMO approach to PvP and PvE. Isn't it usually area based? Could you have area/systems that are strickly PvE or PvP.

Don't know how'd they enforce that though. Maybe player killing in PvE gets you in way more trouble. Like, ATR come knocking and your rebuy is double the cost it would usually be or something.

#notagamedesigner #thinkingoutloud

It's called Solo/PG/Open for a reason. Pick one of the 3, they are your only choices

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

whether you are intending for salt or not.

You're so off the the mark here it's ridiculous. When you're playing a game and lose it's up to you if you're a good sport or not. The person who beat you isn't responsible for your poor attitude and childish response.

Sportsmanship Basics 101, for crying out loud.

 

[Sethiest]

It's called Solo/PG/Open for a reason. Pick one of the 3, they are your only choices

Yes, I am aware of the system already in place lol. I'm suggesting/pondering on what could be done to make all CMDRs feel they can play in open rather than PG. You'll notice that my opening line was suggesting a system opposed to seperate servers.

 

[Havvk]

You're so off the the mark here it's ridiculous. When you're playing a game and lose it's up to you if you're a good sport or not. The person who beat you isn't responsible for your poor attitude and childish response.

Sportsmanship Basics 101, for crying out loud.

It's a game, you don't have to be sportsman about everything