BGS overhaul Open, Solo, Group debate

Greetings

Yesterday we had debate what could be done better in Elite that currently lots of people who like to do BGS but are essentially feeling BGS just became another grind mechanic that in the end means nothing but putting your name on the universe map.
My idea what would make whole BGS game more interesting not just for SOLO, Private Group PVE commanders but also for PVP commanders.
BGS should be put to open only and perhaps Solo and PG would be separate instances of universe or only ability to gain credits and trail your own blaze without affecting the BGS universe.
How ?
When you enter the system in Minor faction you can choose which faction in system you want to be aligned with (if you are in squadron that is not necessary, because Squadron is already aligned) so anyone in system can see who you support, all your actions would contribute just to that faction. Like killing enemy cmdrs in opposite faction or making them high wake out of system all this would get you rewards from minor faction and influence (Like scenarios). If you choose minor faction and you die in battle your rebuy gets almost or full paid by the minor faction which would increase more people not worry about fighting for the minor faction and only objective would be gain as many enemy kills to fight for the faction you support. Non Aligned cmdrs would still be classified as civilians and are still counted as victims of piracy if under attack.
For PVE commanders who wish to support minor faction but dont want to do pvp can take mission from station and they get extra buff on their transports and ATR support if under attack, Beside they can call their PVP cmdr escort to assist in their mission and offer them escort for greater influence impact. While cmdrs who are attacking would have incentive to kill as many as they can and survive incursion.

There are several benefits why would this be better for the game. One reason is Botters would be force to face off PVP hardened commanders that would make botting obsolete and essentially heavy sitting ducks. If CMDR high wakes out of the system it would count positive influence for the attacking wing and their faction same if it comes to combat logging.

Right now
PVP and BGS has no direct meaning with each-other. You cant do BGS if you wanna play in open and do also PVP so all are going solo and group to reach maximum efficiency, beside not even that can beat botters doing their own thing 24/7 in safety of solo and pg.
 
I actually wholeheartedly believe that this is the way forward for Elite, if more people flew in Open the stigma that it is just filled to the brim with gankers and neigh doers would quickly fall, and believe me, flow with Mobius and many other big PvE groups when I started and already had that opinion. Truth is, actions done in Private or solo contribute just as much to the overall PvP attitude of the game, just in a way that attacked factions and groups can't defend against.
 
I actually wholeheartedly believe that this is the way forward for Elite, if more people flew in Open the stigma that it is just filled to the brim with gankers and neigh doers would quickly fall, and believe me, flow with Mobius and many other big PvE groups when I started and already had that opinion. Truth is, actions done in Private or solo contribute just as much to the overall PvP attitude of the game, just in a way that attacked factions and groups can't defend against.
What do you mean by attacked factions not being able to defend against?
 
No. The BGS is designed to be a PvE battleground to be used in any mode you want.
Sadly it became so much more than just PVE battleground it got untreatable disease called BOTS so no matter how much time and PVE skill you put into it you will still lose the battle. Only solution is to force them in open to meet with real human opposition.
 
What do you mean by attacked factions not being able to defend against?
I'm talking about greifing, something I have dealt with for a very long time as a faction leader and BGS manager, other players with their own agendas and reasons taking down your system security ships and just generally undermining your faction, you can see their name on the bounty boards, but these will forever be out of reach behind the cover of PGs and Solo, which isn't fair to me
 
Sadly it became so much more than just PVE battleground it got untreatable disease called BOTS so no matter how much time and PVE skill you put into it you will still lose the battle. Only solution is to force them in open to meet with real human opposition.
I would be very surprised if bots are a major issue in the BGS. Powerplay, yes as it is very simple, the BGS nope.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
In the Background Simulation and Scenarios stream the Devs were quite clear that the BGS is for all players, regardless of platform or game mode.


Frontier's stance on this topic does not appear to have changed since they originally published the design information for the game in November 2012.
 
I'm talking about greifing, something I have dealt with for a very long time as a faction leader and BGS manager, other players with their own agendas and reasons taking down your system security ships and just generally undermining your faction, you can see their name on the bounty boards, but these will forever be out of reach behind the cover of PGs and Solo, which isn't fair to me
Not an issue. You fight that by going after pirates. Use the BGS to defend your system. What those people are doing is providing you with reasons to play the game and the BGS. Without people fighting against it, all you are doing is fighting against systems that can't defend themselves.
 
I'd rather they fixed the botting problem, reviewed the triggers for the various states (bring back famine and outbreak!) and incorporated a true Open only Powerplant with concomitant gameplay rather than split the other modes off from the main BGS.
 
Greetings

Yesterday we had debate what could be done better in Elite that currently lots of people who like to do BGS but are essentially feeling BGS just became another grind mechanic that in the end means nothing but putting your name on the universe map.
My idea what would make whole BGS game more interesting not just for SOLO, Private Group PVE commanders but also for PVP commanders.
BGS should be put to open only and perhaps Solo and PG would be separate instances of universe or only ability to gain credits and trail your own blaze without affecting the BGS universe.
How ?
When you enter the system in Minor faction you can choose which faction in system you want to be aligned with (if you are in squadron that is not necessary, because Squadron is already aligned) so anyone in system can see who you support, all your actions would contribute just to that faction. Like killing enemy cmdrs in opposite faction or making them high wake out of system all this would get you rewards from minor faction and influence (Like scenarios). If you choose minor faction and you die in battle your rebuy gets almost or full paid by the minor faction which would increase more people not worry about fighting for the minor faction and only objective would be gain as many enemy kills to fight for the faction you support. Non Aligned cmdrs would still be classified as civilians and are still counted as victims of piracy if under attack.
For PVE commanders who wish to support minor faction but dont want to do pvp can take mission from station and they get extra buff on their transports and ATR support if under attack, Beside they can call their PVP cmdr escort to assist in their mission and offer them escort for greater influence impact. While cmdrs who are attacking would have incentive to kill as many as they can and survive incursion.

There are several benefits why would this be better for the game. One reason is Botters would be force to face off PVP hardened commanders that would make botting obsolete and essentially heavy sitting ducks. If CMDR high wakes out of the system it would count positive influence for the attacking wing and their faction same if it comes to combat logging.

Right now
PVP and BGS has no direct meaning with each-other. You cant do BGS if you wanna play in open and do also PVP so all are going solo and group to reach maximum efficiency, beside not even that can beat botters doing their own thing 24/7 in safety of solo and pg.
Short answer: No. Even though I play virtually all my BGS in Open, I still say no. The BGS belongs to all of us, across platforms and modes, and even to those who don't know what BGS is, but play the game.

  • are you going to pay a subscription for the management of a copy of the galaxy?
  • reducing the ability to support more than one faction in the system removes strategic and tactical elements from the BGS
  • faction pledging is a cool idea, but has nothing to do with Open Only or not.
  • anyone talking about Open Only as anti-botting measure isn't listening to what those with most experience against bots are saying, that it won't make any difference. Simple network settings will ensure bots won't ever be encountered in Open. We've pointed this out repeatedly. Yet this argument returns
  • I killed 2 CMDRs in a recent CZ BGS battle in open. We also won that conflict. I think you can BGS in Open and PvP, now.

Nothing new here that 90skid hasnt been saying for months (years?)
 
I want to suggest an alternative: Make the BGS more transparent in regards to player inputs.

Groups and commanders should be able to inform themselves easily about who is doing what in a system. The current method is to guess what's happening based on tracking your input and the results, then there are of course hints given through traffic reports and the number of players encountered in Open. All of these are not necessarily reliable and can make it hard to actually "play" the BGS - sometimes even for experienced groups.

Just imagine when four groups and random players are active in the same system. No one is able to tell what difference was made by the individual input and what was caused by "enemy" action. That confusion can be particular annoying when there are multiple groups supporting the opposing side and only one of them is known.

The only somewhat reliable method is to manually track all actions by all the players and share them between all of the involved groups, so they can check the actual tick results and calculate the inputs based on their knowledge of how the BGS treats them. Don't get me wrong. The calculations involved can be fun, but in the end this is very inconvenient gameplay, which could be integrated much better.

Since the BGS is mostly seen as a PvE gameplay mechanic, there should be an option to track BGS inputs in the game. Allow players to inform themselves about the actions of other players in a system (like it is somewhat already the case in PowerPlay).

This information does not necessarily have to include who those players are (since covert operations should remain to be a thing), but it should at least make us able to tell what difference we made in a system through our own actions.
We no longer would have to fear under- or overestimating our own inputs (as an individual commander or a group), and we can easily tell when someone is working against us.

In case missions are reworked some day in the future, such a system would also open the way for a much more immersive mission types. "Covert" Missions could have the function to hide one's own activities and so on... I believe this method would be a good compromise in the "BGS Open Only debate".

Edit: In regards to botting, I believe this problem needs to be addressed by other means. Open only could be an easy solution since the botters would have to risk being spotted by fellow player - although as pointed out in the post above there are work-arounds. This doesn't seem to be the best method unfortunately, especially with all the downsides involved.
 
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Point is BGS open isnt just possible solution to botting problem it basicly delivers whole new notion of gameplay. There is no need to make seperate instances. Why do we need to hide in some secuirity bubble when we could all enjoy emergent gameplay and pvp would be directly incorporated into BGS effect. So what if some people want to close some ports esentially there is also solution to this if there is a will. Current mechanic is currently sadly to say boring and meaningless race of numbers rather than battle for the system control.
 
Point is BGS open isnt just possible solution to botting problem it basicly delivers whole new notion of gameplay. There is no need to make seperate instances. Why do we need to hide in some secuirity bubble when we could all enjoy emergent gameplay and pvp would be directly incorporated into BGS effect. So what if some people want to close some ports esentially there is also solution to this if there is a will. Current mechanic is currently sadly to say boring and meaningless race of numbers rather than battle for the system control.
"There is no need to make seperate instances." isn't technically accurate. ED has a limit to how many Cmdrs can be instanced together.
 
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