Ships Bi Wave Shields. Is it always better to go fast charge?

Yingnei Gasua

Yingnei Gasua
On a PVE multi purpose mission build (example below). Once you have about 50%+ on shield resistance, is it better to go fast charge over hi-cap for the shield mod?

e.g. over the 30 seconds or 1 min it takes for your shields to get knocked down, would the fast charge more than compensate for the slight drop in absolute shield strength? Is there some formula to calculate the break-even timing (for shields to drop) for fast charge vs hi-cap? Thanks.

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Ceekay

Ceekay
Try the shield tester on this site https://cmdrs-toolbox.com/ although I always go for a resistance + fast charge build on my ships with a bias towards thermal resistance as in this build https://s.orbis.zone/bwm2

For the types of PVE I do that approach works but if you intend to do assassination missions with several medium engineered targets a high capacity build would be better suited, also I think it's down to combat tactics as well the resistance + fast charge shield depends on avoiding some of the targets incoming fire as opposed to slugging it out and absorbing a lot of shield damage.

As to weapons the 1 x large + 2 x medium allows for longer sustained firing times (the TTD in Coriolis is based on 4 pips to weps) that are really needed against the ships you target in pirate threat zones (engineered with tough shields and SCB's)
 

Hoshizoku

Hoshizoku
Ceekay said:
Try the shield tester on this site https://cmdrs-toolbox.com/ although I always go for a resistance + fast charge build on my ships with a bias towards thermal resistance as in this build https://s.orbis.zone/bwm2
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saved you a Utility slot: https://s.orbis.zone/bwmO
As OP said, once you get over the 50% resistance, its better to get to fast charge + max Absolute MJ for BI-Weaves. Its all a balance act.

*edit: personally i like to go reinforced + fast charge on my bi-weaves. Lasers are usually weaker DPS compared to kinetic anyway and i prefer the overall MJ the most
 
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MPL3D

MPL3D
Screemonster said:
The limiting factor on a fast charge biweave is usually the distributor rather than the shields themselves. The krait has a massive distro for the size of the ship, so it'll have no problem once you've given it the ol' charge enhanced / super conduits treatment.
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True, this depends on the ship and the distributor. All those webs won't tell but fast charge can be slower to recover than other solutions.
 

Hoshizoku

Hoshizoku
MPL3D said:
True, this depends on the ship and the distributor. All those webs won't tell but fast charge can be slower to recover than other solutions.
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If you just take the experiments into this, fast charge will always get your recovery faster. else you can only lower Absolute MJ.
The Regeneration and Recovery rate only improves with Fast charge.
 

Screemonster

Screemonster
Hoshizoku said:
If you just take the experiments into this, fast charge will always get your recovery faster. else you can only lower Absolute MJ.
The Regeneration and Recovery rate only improves with Fast charge.
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If your distributor can't keep up with fast charge, all it'll do is bottom out your sys capacitor faster. In a few extreme cases, lo-draw can be your better bet.
For instance, if you do something crazy like shove a fast charge biweave on a cutter, you'll find that the unbroken regen will eat your sys capacitor if you run any less than three pips at all times, while lo-draw is a lot more forgiving.
 

Yingnei Gasua

Yingnei Gasua
Thanks guys. So can I say in general, if the distro can manage it, it is generally more useful (except for cases where enemy drops your shields real fast) to have fast-charge over hi-cap for Bi-Weaves?
 

Ceekay

Ceekay
As I've mentioned in other posts there's no wrong shield builds (outside of daft ones!) it's just a matter of finding a balance of regen/strength/resistance.... that suits you, for me I prefer the "extreme" resistance-fast regen approach.

As mentioned above the sys cap is the limiting factor and ships with oversize PD like the Kraits and the Python do really well with fast regen builds, recently I've playing around with Chieftain/Challenger builds and I really do miss the class 7 PD (although that'd make the C class ships a little OP).
 

SENA-

SENA-
I think we cannot go for a general formula here - some ships gain more from a fast regen, other from a hi-cap;
I use in my Conda and Vette the hi-cap, since I cannot run from a swarm of small/medium ships, all faster and more agile than me, so a fast regen is useless if you won't get that "run away and wait to regen" sequence; On other hand, some other big ships, like a T10 , with a hull tank build, will do way better with a fast regen shield instead of a hi-cap one, since their hull can take a lot more punishment.
The fast regen, in my view, is only well suited for some small/medium ships fast enough to have the option to put some distance between them and enemy fire ; but if the attacker can keep with you, the fast regen will not save you, and a hi-cap may be better. The tank hull builds also probably can make a better use from fast regen.
 

Yingnei Gasua

Yingnei Gasua
Thanks for the feedback guys. And yes I was asking specifically for my sorta-lightweight Krait MK2 build only.

Been going round gathering materials for a full G5 Conda but am liking the Krait so much I dont have much incentive to get around building the Conda.
 

SENA-

SENA-
Yingnei Gasua said:
Thanks for the feedback guys. And yes I was asking specifically for my sorta-lightweight Krait MK2 build only.

Been going round gathering materials for a full G5 Conda but am liking the Krait so much I dont have much incentive to get around building the Conda.
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A big ship is the best manufactured materials harvester, in a Conda you can get hundreds of materials / hour in a ResH or CNP - with the use of a class 5 or 7 Collectors and with a cargo rack big enough to hold over 70-100 limpets - small / medium ships simply cannot do that, so maybe is a good idea to keep the Conda journey alive.... and anytime you need those manufactured for other ships, just take the Conda for a ride, and in 1h you have all you need.
 

Imo

Imo
Fast charge shields are useful when you are under attack by very few targets. As soon as you under continues fire your shields will not be able to recharge because when you are being hit the shield pauses with recharge for a few moments and under continous fire they will not get any time to recharge again, so in this case a standard or prismatic shield with more megajoule will be the better option!
 

Yingnei Gasua

Yingnei Gasua
SENA- said:
A big ship is the best manufactured materials harvester, in a Conda you can get hundreds of materials / hour in a ResH or CNP - with the use of a class 5 or 7 Collectors and with a cargo rack big enough to hold over 70-100 limpets - small / medium ships simply cannot do that, so maybe is a good idea to keep the Conda journey alive.... and anytime you need those manufactured for other ships, just take the Conda for a ride, and in 1h you have all you need.
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I got it. But I never had an issue with materials (I just spam imperial shielding mostly and trade for the rest using the Exigeous guide) and had gathered enough for probably 2 full condas by now. Just not finding an incentive to go engineer the Conda which has been parked for a month. The sluggish handling compared too the Krait and the fact it cant land on some spots kinda puts me off.
 

SENA-

SENA-
Imo said:
Fast charge shields are useful when you are under attack by very few targets. As soon as you under continues fire your shields will not be able to recharge because when you are being hit the shield pauses with recharge for a few moments and under continous fire they will not get any time to recharge again, so in this case a standard or prismatic shield with more megajoule will be the better option!
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That's very true, but for a combat ship I think bi-wave is the way to go, you can get a mix of high cap and fast recharge who will perform way better than a prismatic or standard shield, in a fight - faster recharge and a lot less power consumed. The fact you can have a shield at full strength in just a few minutes helps a lot in a ResH or CNP, when for a prismatic you need a 1/4 hour maybe... Also, a SCB will be more effective in a bi-wave since the power required for a full recharge is considerably lower.
 

SENA-

SENA-
Yingnei Gasua said:
I got it. But I never had an issue with materials (I just spam imperial shielding mostly and trade for the rest using the Exigeous guide) and had gathered enough for probably 2 full condas by now. Just not finding an incentive to go engineer the Conda which has been parked for a month. The sluggish handling compared too the Krait and the fact it cant land on some spots kinda puts me off.
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Well, if you love fighting, you do realize a Conda, like a Vette, can engage 3-6-9 NPC.s at once, a thing a Krait cannot do... The Krait is a lovely ship, indeed, I have mine fully engineered and is a joy to fly her, but cannot do what my Conda can... Conda is by far the most versatile ship in-game, ridiculous OP ....
My Krait use a Hi-Cap bi-wave, I found this build more effective. Once you reach 1200-1500 in shields, your Krait will be almost invulnerable.
 
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Vedmo

Vedmo
Unless my PD is larger than my Bi-weave, I pretty much always go low draw rather than fast charge when it comes down to those two on a hull tank build.

It's really nice to be able to keep most pips in ENG & WEP while shields are coming back up, and "full pip" recover times (enough pips to not empty SYS, more accurately) are often just a few seconds different between the two.
 

moolas

M
Lo-draw. You can quickly restore SYS power and switch back to 0-4-2 or 0-3-3 to quickly to move faster and be on offensive again.
 
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