Blocking feature being abused or was it intended to be this way? FDEV?

[Navigare Necesse Est]

But wait.... another plot twist!

...before that; after some of the kids playing with their sand castles were pulled away and were getting the living daylights kicked out of them, one was able to pull himself off the floor, and jumped over the fence to save getting bruised up, or worse, losing an eye. Since the rules of the sand pit stated clearly that the gate has to be used at all times, the unruly kids were upset that they could no longer kick and spit at the kids waiting at the gate to exit. They felt that the kids jumping over the fence and vanishing was also detrimental to their fun, so the unruly ones went to the owner and complained about the fence jumping. The owner whilst concerned that the kids were trying to escape jumping the fence and not gracefully exiting through the gate (which would subject the kids to another 15 seconds of abuse), decided that the easiest thing to do was to take steps to help the majority of the kids play happily again.

how'd I do?

I think there's another plot twist incoming soon...!

Bad, I don't really remember playgrounds having a gate. Must have been an elitist one - i used public ones.

 

[MarkAusten]

Bad, I don't really remember playgrounds having a gate. Must have been an elitist one - i used public ones.

Nah, back in the day, public sandpits were just in the playing field somewhere, but modern ones have a fence all round with a gate and lots of other stuff.

 

[Stinja]

Can anyone actually tell me what a "real PvP'er" is please?

Easy one Mr Jockey79, the "real PvPer"s are over here: http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/CSMajor

Not spotted on in ED yet...



So have we ascended this thread to Hotel Cali yet?

 

[Luniticisi]

So have we ascended this thread to Hotel Cali yet?

Luckily enough, no .. not yet anyway.

 

[Klumpozyte]

Just create a second open mode where players can't attack each other and the problem is solved. Open (PvP) & Open (PvE).

 

[Aashenfox]

This may irk some people, but a 'real' pvper is someone who racks up kills, and that is IT! That's all a real pvper cares about, human kills. Nothing else, not honor, not a good fight (though of course those things are largely respected by the better players), ultimately, it's who has the most confirmed kills, just like real life PvP (human vs human). Elite devs knew that from the outset

 

[Mohrgan]

> Claims to not enjoy egotistical chest thumping in a video game

> Implies the intelligence and imagination of those that like direct player combat more than other modes is deficient in reality

Much like all of the assumptions PvP'ers make about those in Solo or Private Groups. I have no sympathy for the poor down trodden PvP'ers. They can take it, they are the top of the food chain, right?

 

[Aashenfox]

Just create a second open mode where players can't attack each other and the problem is solved. Open (PvP) & Open (PvE).

I was actually about to say that, but do we really need to create a new mode for people who don't understand pvp, when they have TWO already?

EDIT: I now support this idea, it's actually the best solution I believe. PvE mode.

 

[GreyAreaUK]

I was actually about to say that, but do we really need to create a new mode for people who don't understand pvp, when they have TWO already?

The problem with PGs is that they're capped. I think a lot of players would like what amounts to an uncapped PvE Private Group (with some provision for legit piracy, which is where it gets tricky).

It would be interesting to see what the membership numbers of that group would be compared to Open. I wonder if FDev are, in fact, backing the wrong horse here. Original design goals are great (cut-throat galaxy etc) but goals need to be adjusted to meet reality sometimes.

 

[firmicute]

What is to stop someone from pre-emptively blocking, say, the entire roster of SDC (for example) even if they never met a person from SDC in-game?

Edit: Heck, maybe they could pre-emptively block the whole GCI roster for all I know.

Because you don't need to meet every "famous" player in game if their "fame" comes from playing a way you know will not be fun for you in case of a meeting?

If I see a certain type of person behave a certain way ( even virtually via videos or forum) this will inform my inclination to meet them ingame because I want to control with whom I spend my free fun-time.
I decided that someone who likes to grief¹ people is not someone I want to meet unprepared for risk of getting shot at. Which is not how I want to play.

But for me that means playing either in Mobius or in Solo if the internet gets jumpy from too many people.
Should I want to play open i would add certain seal clobbers on my list and people who cant behave polite in chat.
But it will be a long time until I will go in open, if at all. (I went once accidentally. Went back to private the second I could access menu *lol*)

---

Griefing is not: Player killing in Cg's, cz, pirating, attacking powerplayer who is behind enemy lines.

1) Griefing to me is 1. repeatedly targeting a single player, killing them over and over again with the intent of frustrating them.
2) Attacking a weak unarmed player in a not-sidey (because that one is free so dying isnt so bad) in a highly engineered ship (so they die so fast they cant even learn something) without words, warning or comms and without "reason", i.e outside of CG's, powerplay, CZs, without asking for booty etc just to explode them, to frustrate or anger them.
(example would be someone who went to sagA* to kill explorers. So someone put off a lot of time to kill players who cant fight back. which gives nothing, no mats, no money, therefore the only possible motivation could be to cause grief by wasting massive time and effort of other people..
3) Abusing mechanics/exploiting mechanics-like popping out mines inside stations.. or spawn camping millimeters outside the fire zone in non-anarchy systems...which police would be fine with a criminal attacking people outside their police station? Which police would get their people killed and still only send small units into a situation that will get them killed? All that makes no sense in universe.
4. repeatedly attacking a noobie but not killing them, i.e "playing with your food" to frustrate them, then mocking them for dying.
5. Attacking weaker players and then clogging when someone with bigger stick comes to make the griefer taste their own medicine.

(I remember a reddit poster who told the story how their roommate started, got repeatedly interdicted by someone and shot at, maybe even killed multiple times so much that he gave up frustrated and never played it again because his first interaction with the social aspect of the game was a user targeting him repeatedly and then verbally harassing him just to trigger distress and anger.
Imo its not a good sign if the first tip for new players is to either get to used dying randomly or to avoid any social interaction in a "kinda-mmo"

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

correct on the latter, it was your post that prompted my comment about banging one's head on a wall. If you don't think that open is pvp mode, we have nothing further to discuss, because my whole point hinges on that, and well, because open is pvp mode. /shrug What you think the sefver mechanics have to do with this is beyond me. In open you can pve or you can pvp, if you pvpo, you can go anywhere you want, attack anyone you wwant. That's the nature of pvp in every mmo. To complain about that in a game that offers you private group and solo modes so you don't HAVE To expose yourself to pvp, is frankly mind-bogglng to me.

And that's the problem right there, though, isn't it?

Going anywhere you want, attacking anyone you want - with zero consequences to you as the attacker. Because the builder of the sandbox was naive and forgot to post rules or specify how they thought people should play in the sandbox.

Recently someone from Frontier - I think it was Sandro, stated that certain behaviours in-game were against the 'spirit of the game'.

Frontier has added in certain content - for example, the Goid wreck sites. Explorers and Science! types went to those sites, landed their ships, got out in SRV's to investigate. Then along comes the rabid player-killers who promptly set about the ships and SRV's.

Now, I may be wrong, but at those times, at those places, I'd say the 'spirit of the game' leaned towards 'investigating all this new Goid Wreck stuff Frontier has added, as part of the ongoing storyline. I'm pretty sure Frontier sees indiscriminate exploding of landed ships as behaviour which is undesirable.

However, Frontier currently don't have a leg to stand on, on this. They have singularly failed thus far to implement any kind of mechanism with which to enforce/encourage what Frontier thinks is the 'spirit of the game'. I have zero sympathy for Frontier in that respect.

So yes, you are very much technically correct in that currently, any player who wishes to can 'go anywhere, attack anyone', because currently there is nothing in the game which says "well, hang on a moment - this behaviour is undesirable within the 'spirit of the game' so here's some actual consequence and/or negative karma for you".

And it's been like that since the game's release in December 2014.

You're technically correct, and for the rest of the player base who have an inkling of what the 'spirit of the game' as intended by Frontier, it's rather frustrating that you are technically correct.

What I don't understand is why Frontier don't seem to want to put any kind of higher priority on enforcing/encouraging their idea on what the 'spirit of the game' is. A Frontier bod mentioning 'hang on chaps that's just not on' on the forums isn't enough and obviously isn't effective. Actually I do have an inkling why - it's because Frontier can't or wont assign the resources and time required to do that, until their other priorities are completed. The trouble being that they never assigned resources to implement a Crime & Consequence/Karma system in the first place.

 

[Klumpozyte]

I was actually about to say that, but do we really need to create a new mode for people who don't understand pvp, when they have TWO already?

Yes. There is no public game mode for players who are not interested in PvP. And it is not that a lot of people do not understand PvP, they just don't enjoy it / do not care about it.

 

[Luniticisi]

I was actually about to say that, but do we really need to create a new mode for people who don't understand pvp, when they have TWO already?

I can't ever see FD adding a PvE open mode, but I can see a time when PvP does become more enjoyable over the seal-clubbing and meta builds we have today (and I am not even slightly suggesting that this is overly prevalent today, but it is happening and, again, for me, is dull as something that most evacuate at least once a day whist sitting on a toilet)

 

[Mohrgan]

I was actually about to say that, but do we really need to create a new mode for people who don't understand pvp, when they have TWO already?

They really only have one. Solo. Private Groups are left a bit of a mystery. Private Groups all have the exact same rule set as Open, that's why the turds can infest them, and break the Owner of the groups rules. The only thing that can be done to a punk in a no PvP PG is to bounce them. As has been demonstrated, FD will only enforce the rules of open, in a PG.

Put on top of that, the fact that these PG's are administered by one person. Just one. If that person were to leave the game, poof the PG is gone. A simple PvE-Open would solve all of that at a stroke. But, FD don't do it because PvP-Open would be a wasteland, and the PvP Bro's would cry out that FD have betrayed them. It's best and easiest for FD to just let us squabble over it, rather than attack them.

 

[GG7]

Since there's no Open PvE mode it's an excellent feature.

Agreed.

If some PvPers have a problem with it, then they are likely known greifers and deserve to be removed from the Open Gene Pool.

If you don't want to get blocked by other players, try not behaving like a jerkoff.

 

[Aashenfox]

They really only have one. Solo. Private Groups are left a bit of a mystery. Private Groups all have the exact same rule set as Open, that's why the turds can infest them, and break the Owner of the groups rules. The only thing that can be done to a punk in a no PvP PG is to bounce them. As has been demonstrated, FD will only enforce the rules of open, in a PG.

Put on top of that, the fact that these PG's are administered by one person. Just one. If that person were to leave the game, poof the PG is gone. A simple PvE-Open would solve all of that at a stroke. But, FD don't do it because PvP-Open would be a wasteland, and the PvP Bro's would cry out that FD have betrayed them. It's best and easiest for FD to just let us squabble over it, rather than attack them.

You're not wrong.

Since there's no Open PvE mode it's an excellent feature.

I missed this post until it was quoted above by GG7, thanks GG7, I went back and repped it, because despite my support of every pvpers right to pvp, THIS is the very best argument supporting the other side (and my apologies to klumpozyte, cos he also said it and I disputed it's need, I now realise he was right), that for a game which is obviously primarily self-set pve goals, for pve'ers not to have a mode wher ethey can pve safely, is exactly as baffling to me as why pve'ers would play in pvp mode and complain about getting killed. This highlights the actual dilemma.

It is now my opinion that there SHOULD be a fourth game mode (fifth if you count arena), simply PvE. I would play in it myself, exclusively. As I did in WoW, played on a PvE server (several actually). No question, I'm not ashamed to say I'm not made of the stuff that's needed to live on a cutthroat pvp server, which is why I play in solo mostly in Elite. Interestingly, I do consider open a cut-throat pvp mode, always have. A place where I could lose my ship any minute, yes, it's nerve racking, that's why I play mostly in solo. but I will continue to defend pvpers right to pvp in a game mode called 'open'.

I'm willing to suggest an implementation mechanism as well. Players cannot be damaged by player weapons. Bam, done. I guess you'd have to include ship strikes too, because that would be open to abuse again. Shame because in a pve encounter, it might be nice to have to coordinate and not hit each other, meh, it's ok, I can live with no player collision damage int he name of not being ganked.

 

[besieger]

Plenty of people probably are playing ED while waiting for something better to come along. But there will be some problem with any game. It'll be interesting to compare but I think you are focusing on the cloud & not seeing the silver lining.

Competition improves the breed

For sure Competition is good but when a game like this is wasted because of the developers neglect their community... it really begs the question of will Elite ever be considered competition to other studios? probably not given amount of issues this game has faced. worst yet is issues from release still plague this game.

 

[Riverside]

For sure Competition is good but when a game like this is wasted because of the developers neglect their community... it really begs the question of will Elite ever be considered competition to other studios? probably not given amount of issues this game has faced. worst yet is issues from release still plague this game.

Well you might be right. Question is do you want that to happen I guess? I don't

 

[GreyAreaUK]

For sure Competition is good but when a game like this is wasted because of the developers neglect their community... it really begs the question of will Elite ever be considered competition to other studios?

Well it's out there on four platforms and you can actually buy it. That's a significant advantage over a lot of them.

 

[besieger]

Well you might be right. Question is do you want that to happen I guess? I don't

Oh god no!, I love this game. Both PVE and PVP. I am also invested in the other space MMO. I would love to live in a perfect world where frontier fixed their game and SOLO and Private where removed in favor of a OpenPVE mode. separate BGS, only your save would transfer. that way I could play with cannon and PVP with SDC, win-win.

Well it's out there on four platforms and you can actually buy it. That's a significant advantage over a lot of them.

Being on multiple platforms is nice but when you consider the issues the other platforms has and not to forget one platform is completely dead with on word from frontier(who would of thought?!), while the other space MMO might not be out its fair to say its getting much more right than Elite is, not only that but take a look at what they have coming... make Elite look like a game built in 2005.

But as we all know, time will tell if the wait was worth it.