Bored in Space: 5K LY to unlock Palin

[Schmack]

Then you didn't read what I read over the last 5 pages, people very much seem to be viewing this as a hindrance.



That's subjective, what one person finds tedious and boring doesn't that mean others do.

Well when you're watching YouTube videos to get through it then I think that qualifies.

While you aren't required to watch the jump sequence 200 times without doing anything in between to complete that mission that's really all that mission requires.

Well yes you are required to do that mission to get those unlock upgrades. 1 through 5 is not the same upgrade as 1 through 3.

 

[[VR] M4st0d0n]

The argument that engineers unbalance the game, when the requirements are the same for every single player, just doesn't hold up. It would be unbalanced if some players weren't able to use engineers, but that isn't the case.

Except that is. You paid for Horizon to unlock them. Why not make them totally unlockable through the shop, if they're so benine for game balance...

Elite utilizes the same grind model you can find in free to play games. Repeating the same action ad nauseam, making a bar slowly fill, having RNG component for loots. Because they use average player time as their first metric.

 

[babelfisch]

Board in space? Count me in.

 

[Helvellyn]

Except that is. You paid for Horizon to unlock them. Why not make them totally unlockable through the shop, if they're so benine for game balance...

Elite utilizes the same grind model you can find in free to play games. Repeating the same action ad nauseam, making a bar slowly fill, having RNG component for loots. Because they use average player time as their first metric.

Whilst I acknowledge the grind and sameiness there are times when I just find a bit of it with a few videos playing and some beers handy a good way of passing a bit of time.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

While you aren't required to watch the jump sequence 200 times without doing anything in between to complete that mission that's really all that mission requires.

That's a problem with the mission, not a problem with the travel mechanics though.

 

[Lestat]

I think I've done about 50 jumps and I'm nearly halfway to the 5K light years I need to unlock Palin. I somehow managed the 50 jumps by watching YouTube videos while playing. I'm not sure I can motivate myself to finish this trip.

How do you deep space explorers manage the tedious repetition of jump after jump?

Has anyone ever suggested to FDev that we should arrive a bit farther away from the star so that it doesn't obstruct our next jump? Jump, go around star, jump. Jump, go around star jump. Fuel scoop for 10 minutes.

Asp X 50 ly jump range with Guardian FSD booster.

What I am getting from you. You are complaining about Distance. Jump after Jump. But you are not Exploring. That would make it boring. You are not using Neutron stars which would make distance shorter.

 

[babelfisch]

Then you didn't read what I read over the last 5 pages, people very much seem to be viewing this as a hindrance.



That's subjective, what one person finds tedious and boring doesn't that mean others do. I'm fine with the in-game mechanics for traveling just like I'me fine with the unlock requirements for Palin. I also understand that it's not going to be everyone's cup of tea which is fine, it's not even something that is required to unlock the Thruster upgrades, like I pointed out on the first page, you can get up to grade 3 from Felicity and it's fairly easy.

Maybe it's an unorthodox thought, but what if the game wouldn't tell you that you need to travel 5000ly to unlock Palin? Let's say the game wouldn't even let you know about Palin and you can either miss him by never going exploring or you find him by chance. Maybe that would turn something that is seen as a grind into a great mechanic? Of course people would post guides on the internet but that's pretty much the approach from games like Dark Souls and so far I've never seen anyone complaining about grind in this game.

 

[DDastardly00]

Well when you're watching YouTube videos to get through it then I think that qualifies.

While you aren't required to watch the jump sequence 200 times without doing anything in between to complete that mission that's really all that mission requires.

Well yes you are required to do that mission to get those unlock upgrades. 1 through 5 is not the same upgrade as 1 through 3.

So don't bother with it then, it's optional for a reason. Not everyone is going to like exploration just like not everyone is going to like Mining. Access to grades 1-3 is a fair compromise for those that don't feel putting in the extra work for Grades 4-5.

For the record I found the way back tedious and boring which I said in my post on the first page, I'm not arguing that point at all, Of course I didn't give myself anything to do on the way back which is probably why. I should've planned my return trip like I did for the trip out there, it is what you make of it, like anything else in life. If you just scoop and jump 200 times then yes it is going to be tedious and boring, why not at least make the best of it? I took in the sights, saw cool things, tagged my first undiscovered planet, took great pics... at least on the way out there, I have no regrets.

 

[[VR] M4st0d0n]

Maybe it's an unorthodox thought, but what if the game wouldn't tell you that you need to travel 5000ly to unlock Palin? Let's say the game wouldn't even let you know about Palin and you can either miss him by never going exploring or you find him by chance. Maybe that would turn something that is seen as a grind into a great mechanic? Of course people would post guides on the internet but that's pretty much the approach from games like Dark Souls and so far I've never seen anyone complaining about grind in this game.

Darksoul had players guides in the game. It's a built in mechanic and even fits with the lore. You dont need a spreadsheet and some third party site to play it.

Palin invites after unlocking G3 for Qwent.

And his main expertise is thrusters. So much witchspace time for a normal space upgrade...

 

[BlackSpaceCowboy]

Did any of you 'press button to reach 5000LY, fly on autopilot' -people stop for even 1 second and consider what kind of impact that kind of gameplay change would have? Especially on those of us who actually like playing the game? Maybe sims aren't your thing and that's fine but perhaps you should go play something else? Like Star Horizon? Because Elite clearly isn't your kind of game.

I love sims. I love flight sims and racing sims. There's autopilot in flight sims because it exists in real life.

Almost every sim I have allows you access to all the vehicles. There is no progression. There is just the simulation of the vehicle and environment.

Elite Dangerous is not a sim. There would be no engineers in a sim. You would be free to modify your ship any way you like and use any ship you like. That's not a bad thing. I prefer when sims add some game elements to them.

I don't understand why anyone would object to an autopilot feature that you don't have to use. I don't use auto docking computer but I don't oppose its existence. Why would you object to autopilot?

 

[Zieman]

Palin invites after unlocking G3 for Qwent.

And his main expertise is thrusters. So much witchspace time for a normal space upgrade...

And Lori Jameson needs so much combat for Surface Scanners & Fuel Scoops..
So?

 

[babelfisch]

Darksoul had players guides in the game. It's a built in mechanic and even fits with the lore. You dont need a spreadsheet and some third party site to play it.

Palin invites after unlocking G3 for Qwent.

And his main expertise is thrusters. So much witchspace time for a normal space upgrade...

I was pretty much lost when I first played Dark Souls. The game never told me what I need to do.

Good point about Thrusters though. Unlock requirements should definitely make more sense.

PS
I believe you don't quite understand what I am getting at, but that's ok. It's an unorthodox thought after all.

 

[Drelthar]

But the point of all the engineer tasks is (as it appears to me) to take us out of our comfort zones and experience features of the game that we might otherwise dismiss.

It would be interesting to know with the Palin requirement how many players give up on exploration in disgust, compared with how many decide, hey this is awesome ... it's full of stars ... I'll do this again !

I entirely agree.

Thing is, you are going to get people with different levels of tolerance, and in that case, it's likely better to er on the side of less.

I feel like 5000 is just way way too much, and you get the idea of what exploration is a long time before you reach that point.

 

[[VR] M4st0d0n]

I was pretty much lost when I first played Dark Souls. The game never told me what I need to do.

Good point about Thrusters though. Unlock requirements should definitely make more sense.

I think Darksoul is far more developed as a videogame than Elite in terms of mechanics. Just because you can experiment freely once you're zombie. The whole staying human / risk death thing comes later as another layer of strategy.

 

[Schmack]

That's a problem with the mission, not a problem with the travel mechanics though.

Agree, which is why I keep going back to the OP.

 

[babelfisch]

I think Darksoul is far more developed as a videogame than Elite in terms of mechanics. Just because you can experiment freely once you're zombie. The whole staying human / risk death thing comes later as another layer of strategy.

It's certainly better designed in certain areas. In my opinion Frontier is pretty good at creating technology but they don't really now how to create engaging gameplay.

 

[Drelthar]

For me, exploration is getting anywhere without a having a specific destination to end with. Because traveling from A to B is exactly that, traveling. The adventure is the experience of the journey, not the destination. If that makes any sense.

It absolutely does, which is why it may have made more sense to make it not a specific location, but simply, a type of thing - that allows exploration, but with some kind of goal.

I mean, I was massively suprised when I recently had a codex entry pop up just from scanning a star, I was pretty sure I'd seen every type (and honestly it looked exactly the same as all the other orangish stars to me) but considering I've been playing since launch of the game, this kinda proves that there are star types and other things out there that are fairly "rare" which would be legit targets for this kind of thing.

Then you have exploration which is about just searching, no specific end point, but you don't just have "Go a certain distance - don't care if you find anything"

Also I hugely agree that the types of modification the engineers do are fairly dumb. Why does palin grant thrusters.... it makes no sense whatsoever, he should be giving grade 5 FSDs and heat sink capacity and scanner ranges. Explory/Xeno type things.

Scan a water world beyond 500 light years from Sol (or perform a frame shift drive super charge using a nuetron star) - unlock felicty who gives G3 FSD. (and scanner upgrade etc)

Scan an ammonia world at least 1000 light years from Sol - unlock Palin who gives G5 FSD (and special xeno cargo racks - scanner upgrades)

Just seems more logical to me.

 

[[VR] M4st0d0n]

And Lori Jameson needs so much combat for Surface Scanners & Fuel Scoops..
So?

Yeah it doesnt make sense neither. At least I unlocked her in the same session I got the other CZ collector. It's a copy paste requirement for those two. I assume it's a placeholder.

 

[BlackSpaceCowboy]

I believe what Obsidian Ant was referring to in his video was that there's no requirement to use time to create an illusion of space. Waiting for the sake of waiting isn't content and it's a poor substitute for it. What we do when we get there is why we're going in the first place and the fact that people are watching YouTube videos and movies while they're trying to get to the content locks a lot of the players out of the content because they don't have time for that. Maybe that makes some people feel exclusive that they can afford that time but I don't know if that's conducive to good gameplay.

+1 Well said. Waiting is not gameplay.

Also, if time is a measure of space then why does it take longer to travel to some planets than to the next system?

 

[Schmack]

Maybe it's an unorthodox thought, but what if the game wouldn't tell you that you need to travel 5000ly to unlock Palin? Let's say the game wouldn't even let you know about Palin and you can either miss him by never going exploring or you find him by chance. Maybe that would turn something that is seen as a grind into a great mechanic? Of course people would post guides on the internet but that's pretty much the approach from games like Dark Souls and so far I've never seen anyone complaining about grind in this game.

That would be great as long as it does not create a new meta.