[INDEPENDENT] Buckyball Racing Club
On a wider note regarding scheduling:
I'm entirely open to the idea of different race slots. At the moment I've been working on the basis of having a race running through every other week; while I have proposed that they run from one Saturday to the following Sunday (which was the traditional Buckyball Run approach, and gives people two weekends to participate), I have no problem at all with them shifting anywhere within the gap between the end of teh previous race and the start of the next one.
I do think that the length of the event should be linked to the level of complexity. Shorter events should be fairly simple. Where an event has multiple routes (I'm thinking of the Bootlegger Challenge, or the Art of Pandemonium) it probably ought to run for a couple of weeks, just to allow people the chance to have a decent go at more than one of the routes!
To try new things (such as the buggyball events), there is also the possibility of overlapping. I'm thinking that overlapping races could be OK if (a) they do not completely overlap (i.e. both events have a period where they aren't overlapping with another one), and (b) they are noticeably different events (e.g. if one is a simple A to B race, and the other is a more complex type; or if one involves planetary landings and hence requires Horizons, and the other doesn't).
I don't think there is a need to worry about whether or not a race idea suits a "main" event. Based upon the ideas people suggest, I will try to make sure that the schedule has some variety, and has the "innovative" ideas suitably mixed up with more traditional style races.
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OK, I'll pencil those in for now.
I'm entirely open to the idea of different race slots. At the moment I've been working on the basis of having a race running through every other week; while I have proposed that they run from one Saturday to the following Sunday (which was the traditional Buckyball Run approach, and gives people two weekends to participate), I have no problem at all with them shifting anywhere within the gap between the end of teh previous race and the start of the next one.
I do think that the length of the event should be linked to the level of complexity. Shorter events should be fairly simple. Where an event has multiple routes (I'm thinking of the Bootlegger Challenge, or the Art of Pandemonium) it probably ought to run for a couple of weeks, just to allow people the chance to have a decent go at more than one of the routes!
To try new things (such as the buggyball events), there is also the possibility of overlapping. I'm thinking that overlapping races could be OK if (a) they do not completely overlap (i.e. both events have a period where they aren't overlapping with another one), and (b) they are noticeably different events (e.g. if one is a simple A to B race, and the other is a more complex type; or if one involves planetary landings and hence requires Horizons, and the other doesn't).
I don't think there is a need to worry about whether or not a race idea suits a "main" event. Based upon the ideas people suggest, I will try to make sure that the schedule has some variety, and has the "innovative" ideas suitably mixed up with more traditional style races.
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OK, I'll pencil those in for now.
Great, the buggyballs self explanatory , but ill go back over my initial proposal.. and polish it up.
ive got a warm up ive been wanting to do for a while that fits the 8th -10th march mid week slot. ill get it together and send you the details D.
I know ive joked about getting cookie to do the main event.. thatd be ace.. but anyone who hasn't run a race yet and wants to heres a good op between my 2 small mid week ones, Kligg sandwich anyone?
EDIT:- if theres no takers.. I can fill the slot. NP. ive got lumps of it round the back.
im in the states on holiday from the 16th till april .. so id prefer an earlier mid week madness. but I like the sound of drag racing.
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I'd love to run an event, although I have no precise ideas yet. Also, I'm not sure how much time I'll have during the next months, so I can't make any definite plans yet.
I'll try to get some ideas though, updates will follow SoonTM
I'll try to get some ideas though, updates will follow SoonTM
Very interested in the buggyball ... can't remember the details now ... was it a run anytime event?
Virtual rep (out of actual rep atm) for the lumps quote
Sooner or later I'll plan another event of my own although I'm feeling slightly burnt out right now from Turbo mishaps repeatedly kicking me in the balls.
lol I'll have to do it now...
idea for a rally:
go from one station outside the bubble counterclockwise to the next, like 17 draconis - new yembo - BD-something - sothis etc. should be around 3000 ly. you can do each leg as often as you want, but after moving on, you can#t go back, and at the end of the week you have to have made the whole cycle. overall times do count, and best times on a leg.
this threads lists all system out of the bubble: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=229162 ....
go from one station outside the bubble counterclockwise to the next, like 17 draconis - new yembo - BD-something - sothis etc. should be around 3000 ly. you can do each leg as often as you want, but after moving on, you can#t go back, and at the end of the week you have to have made the whole cycle. overall times do count, and best times on a leg.
this threads lists all system out of the bubble: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=229162 ....
Heh, that's essentially what I was thinking of when I posted this.
Sounds like that might be one for a little later in the year once we've got past Turbo Hour and Spring Break
.We do still have a slot available for sometime around the week of 27 February - 6 March if anybody is able to come up with a race for then...
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Uh oh.
I just had a really, REALLY bad thought.
For those who are unfamiliar, I was a little busy Friday and Saturday.
Now, when you're in a run like that, you need to pass the time, otherwise, you get bored in a bad way. One of the things I did to pass the time was research the 24 Hours of Le Mans. I knew that, up until the 1950s, solo teams (!) were allowed; nowadays, a minimum of three drivers per team are required, with maximum shift times and overall driving times enforced. (Hey, when you're trying to do Beagle Point in one sitting, suddenly things like Le Mans or the 24 Hours of Daytona are of intense professional interest.)
So, I went through my Beagle Point run, had to take a nap after, oh, about 18 hours or so, then continued and concluded my run. That said, I realized a way that a race from occupied space (if we want to go with tradition, we go with Beagle 2 Landing in Asellus Primus) to Beagle Point could work.
Like Le Mans, like any sane entry of the Cannonball Baker sea-to-shining-sea race, we use teams.
Now, there's multiple ways to go about this. In some cases, physical teams that all work from the same location could be achieved; for instance, given the number of Bucky racers in the Dallas, TX area, at least one team could be fashioned from that group. The other two options are to use wings, or to wait for the possible use of co-pilots in E.
That said... it just kind of made for a scary moment - when a true, star-to-shining-star race across the galaxy could be viewed as feasible.
I just had a really, REALLY bad thought.
For those who are unfamiliar, I was a little busy Friday and Saturday.
Now, when you're in a run like that, you need to pass the time, otherwise, you get bored in a bad way. One of the things I did to pass the time was research the 24 Hours of Le Mans. I knew that, up until the 1950s, solo teams (!) were allowed; nowadays, a minimum of three drivers per team are required, with maximum shift times and overall driving times enforced. (Hey, when you're trying to do Beagle Point in one sitting, suddenly things like Le Mans or the 24 Hours of Daytona are of intense professional interest.)
So, I went through my Beagle Point run, had to take a nap after, oh, about 18 hours or so, then continued and concluded my run. That said, I realized a way that a race from occupied space (if we want to go with tradition, we go with Beagle 2 Landing in Asellus Primus) to Beagle Point could work.
Like Le Mans, like any sane entry of the Cannonball Baker sea-to-shining-sea race, we use teams.
Now, there's multiple ways to go about this. In some cases, physical teams that all work from the same location could be achieved; for instance, given the number of Bucky racers in the Dallas, TX area, at least one team could be fashioned from that group. The other two options are to use wings, or to wait for the possible use of co-pilots in E
. That said... it just kind of made for a scary moment - when a true, star-to-shining-star race across the galaxy could be viewed as feasible.
Concept - Space Drag Racing
This is a draft concept; I'm looking to have discussions and take input in order to make this form of Space Drag Racing as awesome as possible. There will be some assumptions and presumptions on my part, so please bring it up! Doing so will also help me write an FAQ.
The space drag racing idea is an attempt at something "equivalent" to the real-world sport, because the buckyball format doesn't work with how it's actually done. Rather than being purely time-based, drag racing is normally a bracket competition that's run in head-to-head heats. Also drag racing is very fast, often requiring mechanical sensors to determine winners, but we're limited to a time granularity of 1 second.
Lastly, in real-world drag racing the cars and the mechanics who build/tune them are often more important than the driver. This is reflected by the fact that driver reaction time is measured separately from the vehicle's elapsed time in motion and essentially treated as a penalty to the vehicle's performance. So my space drag racing equivalent attempts to replicate all of that in a way that also gives us metrics with more granularity than just 1 second on the clock.
Racers must submit evidence for four heats, each with different requirements, and recorded in order. These must be completed within 15 minutes of starting heat 1. A score is generated for each heat based on the time submitted and how well that heat's requirements were met. The equation for this is:
From among the first heat's scores, the top 75% of pilots (not entries!) move to the second round (or the top 16 pilots, whichever is more). From the second heat's scores, the top 50% move to the third round (there will be at least 8). From the third heat's scores, the top 25% move to the final round (there will be at least 2). And finally, the best score in the last heat wins.
Racers may only submit evidence once per ship type, per race class. When multiple entries are submitted by a racer, they will be sorted first by their heat 1 scores, then heat 2 scores, then heat 3, and then 4.
If there are fewer than 16 racers the remaining slots for heat 2 will be filled with secondary entries, starting with the lowest-scoring pilots and working up the list. Obviously, pilots are encouraged to enter with multiple ship types. In the case of extreme ties, additional entries in the same class will also be used for tie-breakers.
If there is a tie for lowest qualifying score in a heat, and that tie stradles the line for moving to the next round, all pilots with that score move on. If there is a tie for highest score in the final round, tie-breakers will be evaluated in the following order:
Ships can be Stock or Hot Rod class. Stock ships can only be outfitted with unmodified parts and cannot use synthesis. Hot Rods can be outfitted with Engineer-modified parts and may use synthesis for heats where it makes sense. Regardless of class, you cannot change your ships outfitting between heats.
As additional evidence to be submitted with entries, racers must include a GalMap screenshot for each heat with the Navigation tab open. The shot must show the racer in the start system and with their intended finish line selected. The distance to that finish line must be visible, and the Navigation tab be open, with Jump Data requirements for the heat being set, such as FSD Boost settings (see below).
Ships must start each heat with a full tank of fuel. As a modification to the standard Buckyball Racing Club rules for submitting evidence, launch times are taken from the Station Services screen, which must show that no fuel can be bought.
Because docking is not a requirement of drag racing, finish-line evidence is a screenshot of the GalMap, showing the racer in their chosen system.
REQUIREMENTS
Heat 1 - Very Far
This is a draft concept; I'm looking to have discussions and take input in order to make this form of Space Drag Racing as awesome as possible. There will be some assumptions and presumptions on my part, so please bring it up! Doing so will also help me write an FAQ.
The space drag racing idea is an attempt at something "equivalent" to the real-world sport, because the buckyball format doesn't work with how it's actually done. Rather than being purely time-based, drag racing is normally a bracket competition that's run in head-to-head heats. Also drag racing is very fast, often requiring mechanical sensors to determine winners, but we're limited to a time granularity of 1 second.
Lastly, in real-world drag racing the cars and the mechanics who build/tune them are often more important than the driver. This is reflected by the fact that driver reaction time is measured separately from the vehicle's elapsed time in motion and essentially treated as a penalty to the vehicle's performance. So my space drag racing equivalent attempts to replicate all of that in a way that also gives us metrics with more granularity than just 1 second on the clock.
Racers must submit evidence for four heats, each with different requirements, and recorded in order. These must be completed within 15 minutes of starting heat 1. A score is generated for each heat based on the time submitted and how well that heat's requirements were met. The equation for this is:
where jump ratio is
The idea behind using jump ratios is to make the event as inclusive as possible among fast ships (as opposed to ships that jump far). You should find yourself fine-tuning your jump performance for the heat requirements and course options, not just utilizing someone else's already known solutions for raw distance.
From among the first heat's scores, the top 75% of pilots (not entries!) move to the second round (or the top 16 pilots, whichever is more). From the second heat's scores, the top 50% move to the third round (there will be at least 8). From the third heat's scores, the top 25% move to the final round (there will be at least 2). And finally, the best score in the last heat wins.
Racers may only submit evidence once per ship type, per race class. When multiple entries are submitted by a racer, they will be sorted first by their heat 1 scores, then heat 2 scores, then heat 3, and then 4.
If there are fewer than 16 racers the remaining slots for heat 2 will be filled with secondary entries, starting with the lowest-scoring pilots and working up the list. Obviously, pilots are encouraged to enter with multiple ship types. In the case of extreme ties, additional entries in the same class will also be used for tie-breakers.
If there is a tie for lowest qualifying score in a heat, and that tie stradles the line for moving to the next round, all pilots with that score move on. If there is a tie for highest score in the final round, tie-breakers will be evaluated in the following order:
- fastest time
- biggest jump ratio
- best score from heat 3
- best score from heat 2
- best score from heat 1
Ships can be Stock or Hot Rod class. Stock ships can only be outfitted with unmodified parts and cannot use synthesis. Hot Rods can be outfitted with Engineer-modified parts and may use synthesis for heats where it makes sense. Regardless of class, you cannot change your ships outfitting between heats.
As additional evidence to be submitted with entries, racers must include a GalMap screenshot for each heat with the Navigation tab open. The shot must show the racer in the start system and with their intended finish line selected. The distance to that finish line must be visible, and the Navigation tab be open, with Jump Data requirements for the heat being set, such as FSD Boost settings (see below).
Ships must start each heat with a full tank of fuel. As a modification to the standard Buckyball Racing Club rules for submitting evidence, launch times are taken from the Station Services screen, which must show that no fuel can be bought.
Because docking is not a requirement of drag racing, finish-line evidence is a screenshot of the GalMap, showing the racer in their chosen system.
REQUIREMENTS
Heat 1 - Very Far
- Jump as far as possible on a partial tank of fuel. This is an exception to the general requirement for full fuel tanks.
- A system cannot be used as the finish-line for this heat if it will be the same as a future heat.
- Scores are calculated based using the max FSD range of your partial tank.
- Jump to the closest system possible (which will be officially identified with the start-line system.)
- Scores are calculated using your base FSD range.
- Jump to the furthest system that is reachable in a single jump when using Economical Routes (which will be officially identified with the start-line system.)
- Scores are calculated using your base FSD range.
- Jump as far as possible on a full tank of fuel.
- Scores are calculated using your base FSD range.
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Long distance / endurance racers have A* Challenge.
Smugglers have The Black Riband.
With space drag racing I'm hoping to give the speed freaks something that they can do repeatedly. Once everything is nailed down, I'd like it to become a permanent fixture that runs once / week: The Monday Drag, with a different "course" each week. I've got my eye on a collection of stations that are mostly surveyed for actual race appropriateness (i.e., they aren't 100,000+ ls out from system entry), and there should be enough to spread across 52 weeks of the year.
In addition to the weekly leaderboards, I'd maintain lists of record holder for each ship type (broken out by class), as well as stats about each of the 52 race tracks.
Smugglers have The Black Riband.
With space drag racing I'm hoping to give the speed freaks something that they can do repeatedly. Once everything is nailed down, I'd like it to become a permanent fixture that runs once / week: The Monday Drag, with a different "course" each week. I've got my eye on a collection of stations that are mostly surveyed for actual race appropriateness (i.e., they aren't 100,000+ ls out from system entry), and there should be enough to spread across 52 weeks of the year.
In addition to the weekly leaderboards, I'd maintain lists of record holder for each ship type (broken out by class), as well as stats about each of the 52 race tracks.
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Id probably do the event and see what the participation is before booking your life for 52 events J. your already part of other player group action. not that its for me to tell you what to do with your time chap.
I had a warm up based on just one tank of fuel.. and im sure other people have got rares runs that have been sort of over shadowed by the bootlegger challenge. if we start setting up specific types of races.. you kind of narrow the field for everyone else coming up with ideas. maybe have drag racing as a standby on mid week madness slots. the initial proposal was for 24 of those to run with the normal 24 events weve commited too. so weve grown the events from 12 to 24 to 48 and now you want to add 52. lets rock with 48 for a while and see how that goes. If it gets mad popular after 1 event.. go for it with 52. pm the BRC members on here if you want to organise test runs.
average participation unless you mention star wars is about 20 atm..even with all the advertising weve had recently. I think if that was up in the hundreds.. more events would be good.. but it isn't. so were are in danger of having more events than we have participants. don't see this as me poo pooing your idea.. just the amount you propose to put on. who decides if an event should be left open for ever?.. well in the case of the sag a* that's ones a no brainer.. raikos bootlegger.. I think was him at the time wanting to be more involved. talk to him about how often people have run that to gauge how yours could go. if it was up to me , just the sag a* would be the only open event. if we all have open events I think it gets a bit noisy.
if you say , but its not fair raikos got an open event why cant I .. Id have to agree with you.. he just went ahead and did it.. and no one objected. but I don't think we can have everyone doing it. as I believe the existence of the bootlegger has probably prevented some other rares races being put forward. so that's my main concern about open stuff.. removing possibility's for every other hoster.
I think if you look at alots art of pandi race.. that was really 3 races in one. the longer someone waits to host.. the more they want to cram into there slot. which is understandable but im not sure its a good idea as you dilute your own race.. lets keep it simple.
we all go on about how great bb7 was as a scramble.. but nones really done one. I think we should have a scramble race soon. and if no one wants the slot coming up between the small mid weeks ive got planned.. ill do a scramble for that.. but they take a bit more research.
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And that's exactly how it's going to stay.
Im trying to look at the bigger picture rather than an individual hosters needs. so sorry if im putting anyones nose out of joint by doing that.And that's exactly how it's going to stay.
we cant have every event as an open one can we? just imagine that for a moment.
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Couple of quick questions:
1) Drag Racing - those events are without a fuel scoop right? (I'm guessing there's the potential for lots of running out of fuel style incidents).
2) Everyone keeps going on about the BB7 scramble race but I missed it ... quick summary of what a "scramble" race entails?
1) Drag Racing - those events are without a fuel scoop right? (I'm guessing there's the potential for lots of running out of fuel style incidents).
2) Everyone keeps going on about the BB7 scramble race but I missed it ... quick summary of what a "scramble" race entails?
Probably best if you just check out the thread for it here , its EZ on good form. :-
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=134186
but basically it was visit any 7 out of 11 stations in 7 close systems and back to the start, so it had a good routing challenge and was busy around the start end.
it would have been spoilt by anyone posting the best route.
part of it had you thinking.. how long would it take to SC to the next station.. and would it be quicker to just jump out and jump back in.
which is what Ez seems to be good at with his courses .. it may all look haphazard but hes actually planned it like that. or has he
I think the gateway shuffle rankase had planned was gonna be a scramble.. so we need to replace that imo.
in a dream scenario.. EZ would pop up with one and save us.
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And I'm sorry if anything about the Black Riband puts your nose out of joint, but it will remain an event for so long as other CMDRs wish to challenge furrycat's awesome time - I suspect that <-lightspeed-> will be having another go.
Little Nuk, doesn't care what anyone thinks, so if you've got a problem I suggest that you take it up with Fat Tony.
It's not really a big deal though (so please take my comments in jest as they're intended), there's only a relatively small number of CMDRs who've even attempted the Black Riband and I expect that it'll eventually fade into the mists of time (page 2 of the community events forum!).
It's never going to have loads of the regular runners like the A* Challenge. I suspect that any on-going event will gradually lose participants - unless it's so much fun that it's impossible to resist having another go.
For anyone who does want to run an on-going event though, I think that it's worth remembering that neither the A* Challenge or The Black Riband take up a single slot in the calendar, and so they don't ever impact on anyone else's chances to host an event. I do think that that should be the basis of any event that exists beyond it's original slot. As robinjb keeps pointing out, there's only so many slots on the calendar, and lot of us who want to host events.
PS: BBR-7 was great.