Building a new PC for Elite: Dangerous Odyssey (hardware discussion)

@ Alec Turner :)
Hi there.
I've been trying to search for some info. on your 200 FrostFlow CPU Air Cooler, with mixed results, just a few questions if you wouldn't mind.
1. How many heat pipes and integral fans has it got?
2. Does it cool your CPU adequately?

I bought a Deepcool CPU Air Cooler with the intention of fitting it with an extra fan (Also by Deepcool) on the rear as well as the front, but I'm wondering if this might not be enough to cool the CPU to a reasonable level. (AMD Ryzen 7 7800x3D).
I haven't fitted it yet to my new build as I'm wondering if I ought to go for an Air Cooler with one or two more heat pipes. :unsure:

As usual any thoughts or suggestions from other forumites welcome (y)

Jack :)
 
@ Alec Turner :)
Hi there.
I've been trying to search for some info. on your 200 FrostFlow CPU Air Cooler, with mixed results, just a few questions if you wouldn't mind.
1. How many heat pipes and integral fans has it got?
2. Does it cool your CPU adequately?

I bought a Deepcool CPU Air Cooler with the intention of fitting it with an extra fan (Also by Deepcool) on the rear as well as the front, but I'm wondering if this might not be enough to cool the CPU to a reasonable level. (AMD Ryzen 7 7800x3D).
I haven't fitted it yet to my new build as I'm wondering if I ought to go for an Air Cooler with one or two more heat pipes. :unsure:

As usual any thoughts or suggestions from other forumites welcome (y)

Jack :)

PCS coolers are ID-cooling rebrands. I believe the FrostFlow 200 is an SE-207-XT or something very similar.

The 7800X3D does not need a lot of cooling. At stock it will pull less than 70w in most games. Tuning it will knock another 10w off. It will still get hot--thermal density of the CCD is extreme and the total thermal resistance, before even reaching the heatsink base, is high--but getting a larger heatsink is about the least efficient way to improve temperature on a 7800X3D.

The best coolers for the money currently are Thermalright. The ~35 USD/GBP/EUR Phantom Spirit SE matches or beats essentially any other air cooler, even ones that cost three times as much. That said, there is nothing wrong with your DeepCool AG500.
 
@ Alec Turner :)
Hi there.
I've been trying to search for some info. on your 200 FrostFlow CPU Air Cooler, with mixed results, just a few questions if you wouldn't mind.
1. How many heat pipes and integral fans has it got?
2. Does it cool your CPU adequately?

I bought a Deepcool CPU Air Cooler with the intention of fitting it with an extra fan (Also by Deepcool) on the rear as well as the front, but I'm wondering if this might not be enough to cool the CPU to a reasonable level. (AMD Ryzen 7 7800x3D).
I haven't fitted it yet to my new build as I'm wondering if I ought to go for an Air Cooler with one or two more heat pipes. :unsure:

As usual any thoughts or suggestions from other forumites welcome (y)

Jack :)
Hi, sorry I missed this earlier. I'm afraid I don't really know anything about the cooler, I'm really not clued up on these things at all (hence this thread and getting PCS to build the PC for me). If it's the big block in the middle of the mobo sitting over where I assume the CPU is buried then there are two big fans clipped to either side of it, pipes I don't have a clue about tho. As for cooling - yeah I think it's working fine (and my PC is in a corner of a small room right next to some radiator pipes so not ideal). I might install Core Temp at some point to have a closer look while ED is running.
 
Hi :)
@Morbad....Cheers!, thanks for the information and the links, you've been very helpful :)

Hi, sorry I missed this earlier. I'm afraid I don't really know anything about the cooler, I'm really not clued up on these things at all (hence this thread and getting PCS to build the PC for me). If it's the big block in the middle of the mobo sitting over where I assume the CPU is buried then there are two big fans clipped to either side of it, pipes I don't have a clue about tho. As for cooling - yeah I think it's working fine (and my PC is in a corner of a small room right next to some radiator pipes so not ideal). I might install Core Temp at some point to have a closer look while ED is running.

Hey!...not to worry, with Morbad's help and links we've both learned something! :D
That' a nice looking Cooler you've got, 7 heat pipes....interesting. I've just this minute looked at a review on toms hardware for your cooler. (y)
That should cheer you up! :D

Jack :)
 
There's definitely something wrong in the area of the USB devices. The joystick (just a Thrustmaster Hotas 4) frequently just stops working. Originally it was so bad (and not just the joystick but also the Track IR device) that I followed some online advice about manually uninstalling all the USB 3.0 drivers in order to get Windows to reinstall the latest drivers (a process which stupidly left me with no working keyboard or mouse for a while and a complete panic that I'd killed my new PC before I'd even started). Luckily I did get the drivers back again. It's still not right tho. I had to reboot twice this morning when my joystick just stopped working mid session. The single most reproducible symptom of this is that if I start the Windows "Setup USB game controllers" dialog, the window with the list of controllers opens but is then immediately unresponsive and typically remains that way for several minutes after which my joystick then works. I also have a problem with my HP printer (again USB connected) which, although it prints, pops up a dialog as it's doing so saying it can't communicate with the printer. The PC also feels quite slow to boot and I can't help wondering if it's the same issue ... some kind of timeout while it tries to talk to unresponsive USB devices during startup? At the weekend I'm going to transfer a 4xUSB3.0 PCIe card from my old PC - a) to give me some leg room re: spare slots and b) to spread my USB load across more controllers (that's a thing right?) in the hope of fixing this situation. It will be an old card tho. Does that matter? Are there good and bad PCIe USB cards, can I get something more modern that's likely to be more reliable? Are there USB diagnostics I can run? I guess I'll be talking to PC Specialist about all this too.
Jesus ... what an absolute flippin' nightmare this has been!

So my usb/joystick problems persisted and another symptom (one of many) was that EDCoPilot was taking about 5 minutes to startup, about 5 times longer than usual! I worked with Razzafrag (EDCoPilot's developer) and established that the call to initialise the text to speech library was taking nearly a minute on my PC rather than the half second he was seeing ... over 100 times slower! There were other things too. If I tried to type in Discord while EDCoPilot was starting up I was getting about 1 keystroke every 2 seconds!

I did install another PCIe USB card from my old PC but, although it gave me some spare USB slots, it didn't make any difference to the main issue above regardless of what I plugged in where (and I tried numerous arrangements).

I had an hour long remote assistance call with PC Specialist. They were excellent, spent quite a while examining my event logs, and ran all sort of Windows system integrity checks on the PC, sadly to no avail. They left me with an email containing a bunch of things to run in safe mode (which they couldn't do remotely) and asked me to call back for another session if the problem persisted.

I went back to Windows Defender (both Razzafrag and I agreed it felt like anti-virus software getting in the way of things). I tried turning off every feature one by one and then using EDCoPilot startup as a test for whether the problem had gone away. I added exceptions for EDCoPilot. Nothing helped. In desperation I even turned off Windows new "Smart App Control" which was in "Evaluation" mode. It was a last resort because it can't be turned back on without doing a fresh install of Windows 11! It didn't help (and no, I won't be re-installing Windows 11 to turn it back on again).

It was at this point (yesterday afternoon) while watching the task manager process list as I did things like trying to run that Windows USB game controller dialog that I noticed a thing called "AAC MB HAL" popping up occasionally. I dismissed it initially assuming it was just one of those mysterious background system tasks to do with "AAC" audio encoding but then I googled it.

MTMhcN7.gif


It's technically legitimate software supplied with Asus products like my motherboard to manage driver updates, fan control, RGB lighting, etc. Anyway, I had a quick look, decided I didn't need it and uninstalled it.

It seems 🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞 like that has fixed all my problems !!!
The USB game controller dialog opens instantly.
My PC can communicate with the printer properly.
EDCoPilot starts up in under 50 seconds.
And last night I was able to join the Elite Racers for some canyon racing and the system (joystick, headtracker and all) ran flawlessly for over 2 hours.

Thanks Asus, your hardware might be excellent but your software blows goats and made my life a living hell.
 
Last edited:
Hi
@Morbad....Cheers!, thanks for the information and the links, you've been very helpful



Hey!...not to worry, with Morbad's help and links we've both learned something!
That' a nice looking Cooler you've got, 7 heat pipes....interesting. I've just this minute looked at a review on toms hardware for your cooler.
That should cheer you up!

Jack

The review you linked to is the slightly weaker version (non-SE) of the cooler I recommended the SE).

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXMhvzP34PE


The EVO is the same thing as the SE, but with different fans:
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgkggcBBW8Q


This is the cooler in Alec's build:

They are superficially quite similar, but the Thermalright is newer and superior. Both are overkill for a 7800X3D, but I recommended the one Alec selected because it was the most optimal one offered by PCS. Anything weaker didn't save much money, and anything more expensive was an AIO that wouldn't have improved performance much on the 7800X3D.

MTMhcN7.gif


It's technically legitimate software supplied with Asus products like my motherboard to manage driver updates, fan control, RGB lighting, etc. Anyway, I had a quick look, decided I didn't need it and uninstalled it.

It seems 🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞 like that has fixed all my problems !!!

Yeah, never install Armoury Crate. In fact, do not install any software from ASUS. You can get firmware updates from them, but if you need drivers, go to the OEM and if you need other utility software, look up some 3rd party--preferably open source or reputable freeware--stuff.
 
Last edited:
Hi :)

Yeah, never install Armoury Crate. In fact, do not install any software from ASUS. You can get firmware updates from them, but if you need drivers, go to the OEM and if you need other utility software, look up some 3rd party--preferably open source or reputable freeware--stuff.

Yep!, I had loads of trouble on my previous Intel build and Asus's motherboard AC. software.
After searching the web for fixes and advice I came to the same conclusion and uninstalled Armoury Crate as well. :rolleyes:
A much better experience, and generally the computer behaves itself now. 🙏

Jack :)
 
Most motherboard included software (in my experience) is atrocious in their usability, with GUI's/Apps fragmented in design, and often slow down your PC for no good reason. They also have a tendency to introduce bugs that are never fixed until they replace the software/individual app to a new much better version with more features that most definitely wasn't created to cover their previous trash not working properly and has been thoroughly tested to work with all the existing software/individual apps the collective software comes with.
And with the exception of RGB maybe (which is usually artificially "locked" rather than technically) all those apps can probably be replaced with higher quality mostly freeware programs or are never required for day to day running to begin with.

Set fan curves in the BIOS/UEFI, HWinfo to monitor your components, OpenRGB for the lighting. Those are my choices, many others are available.

Armory Crate and MSI Center are the two that I personally come across the most that cause people issues, and other than some specific functions like firmware updates, neither are required for the PC to actually run on a regular basis.

Glad you got it sorted it Alec, not surprised by the culprit :)
 
Another great way to control the fan curves (or to test them on the fly in Windows, and then copy the settings over to the BIOS) is Fan Control. It's open source and excellent. https://getfancontrol.com/
It's not open source code. It hosts its releases on Github. It combines open source libraries, i.e. https://github.com/LibreHardwareMonitor/LibreHardwareMonitor and closed source code. Not that there is anything wrong with this (I'm just trying to be accurate here), if you were the developer why give your work away for free? Which he does...

It's also great
:)
 
Looking for thoughts on additional M.2 storage.

So I was stupid and, in trying to keep the cost close to my original budget, didn't add enough storage to my build, rookie mistake, oh well.

Anyway, I'm planning on adding another 2TB SSD via the 2nd M.2 NVMe slot.

Having done some research this seems like a reasonable deal for what sounds like a top quality SSD.


WD_BLACK SN850X 2TB, M.2 2280, NVMe SSD, Gaming Drive, Gen 4 PCIe, Read speeds up to 7300 MB/s

Current price: £153 (not cheap but I won't be doing this again for a while)

I believe the Gen 5 slot is actually the one that's still empty but some reading suggests price of Gen 5 SSD's just doesn't warrant the added cost.
 
So I was stupid and, in trying to keep the cost close to my original budget, didn't add enough storage to my build
My computer simply died so I had to replace it completely. But I kept the 2 SSDs and put them in the new one (which came with 1 already installed). I don't know what Gen they are, but they are certainly fast enough for me.

The result is that I have 5 GB of SSD storage now.

I can fit stuff! I don't have to uninstall other stuff to fit more stuff!

I'm sure your newer ones will be even better :)
 
Having done some research this seems like a reasonable deal for what sounds like a top quality SSD.


WD_BLACK SN850X 2TB, M.2 2280, NVMe SSD, Gaming Drive, Gen 4 PCIe, Read speeds up to 7300 MB/s
Current price: £153 (not cheap but I won't be doing this again for a while)

I believe the Gen 5 slot is actually the one that's still empty but some reading suggests price of Gen 5 SSD's just doesn't warrant the added cost.

I bought the same SSD for my new build just a few days ago. I wanted something with a solid controller, DRAM cache, and the ability to set a 4k logical sector (not synonymous with cluster) size.

Another, very similarly performing option, with similar feature sets, but a different (Phison) controller is something like the Crucial T500.

Gen 5 SSDs are expensive, run hot (the cool running ones will be slower than top Gen 4 drives in many areas, at least until new controllers show up), and offer very little in the way of practical increases to performance. Even Gen 4 is only marginally faster than Gen 3 in most real world use, but the price differential is much smaller here, so it's justifiable.

My computer simply died so I had to replace it completely.

What id you do with the old parts, other than the SSDs?
 
Hi Morbad :)

I bought the same SSD for my new build just a few days ago. I wanted something with a solid controller, DRAM cache, and the ability to set a 4k logical sector (not synonymous with cluster) size.

Another, very similarly performing option, with similar feature sets, but a different (Phison) controller is something like the Crucial T500.

Gen 5 SSDs are expensive, run hot (the cool running ones will be slower than top Gen 4 drives in many areas, at least until new controllers show up), and offer very little in the way of practical increases to performance. Even Gen 4 is only marginally faster than Gen 3 in most real world use, but the price differential is much smaller here, so it's justifiable.



What id you do with the old parts, other than the SSDs?

Looking for thoughts on additional M.2 storage.

So I was stupid and, in trying to keep the cost close to my original budget, didn't add enough storage to my build, rookie mistake, oh well.
Hi Alec :)

I must admit I'm a bit confused with the different specs of the latest M2 drives. I still haven't built up my latest computer build. I've got all the hardware to do it but real life situations just seem to be getting in the way at the moment! 😫...:D (Plus I bought a new monitor recently which depleted the funds somewhat! ).
I was going to use the main drive from my older computer which is a 1TB Crucial 500 SSD, but looking at your most recent threads up top I'm thinking before I finally start my build it would seem it might be a good idea to get something like the M2 drives you both mention for the main drive, and use the 1TB SSD as storage.

This is the motherboard I will be using...


So, I'm considering buying an M2 drive to fit into one of the 2 x M.2 2242-22110 (PCIe 4.0 x4) slots on the motherboard, (probably a 1 TB).
My budget would stretch to around about £100, and / but I'd really appreciate any suggestions on what would be the best options here...help! :D
Edit...Just thought to add, this new build is going to be used more or less solely for gaming.

Jack :)
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom