General / Off-Topic Building a wall

My "idea" was more a reaction to the mass immigration we see today. I never had any issue with immigration before. It's the mass immigration that has woken up my protective instincts.

So, tell me, what if they want Sharia Law implemented in Finland? Would you be ok with that? And don't tell me it's never gonna happen. They already have Sharia Courts in Britain. And a major in London who wants to ban women from dressing "naughty". Now THAT'S insane. What next, obligatory Hijab for every woman, to not offend the profet? It will happen when they become enough in numbers, mark my words :p

1.
For this to Happen they would need to have the Majority in Finland.
Which will never Happen.

2.
I think you have an Fundamental Misunderstanding of Sharia Courts in the UK.
The Sharia Courts are an Alternate "out of Court" Settling of Disputes which is available.

It Requires the Consent of Both Parties in the Dispute to work. So if either of the two Disputing Parties does not explicitly wish to Settle the Matter in a Sharia Court. The Dispute will be Settled under UK Laws and Rights in complete Ignorance of Sharia Law.
Moreover. A Sharia Court is Limited to Civil Disputes. It allows handling stuff like Divorces etc under Muslim Rights. By pretty much making a Contract between the Parties about how the Dispute is Settled.

The moment the UKs Laws are Broken the Sharia Court is entirely Meaningless and has no Power at all.


This sort of thing is happening all around by the way.
Political Parties have their own Tribunals.
Companies have their own Tribunals.
Heck even some Clubs have their own Tribunals.

Requirement for an Government Court to become active in a Civil Rights Question.
Is that this Dispute is bought to Court by one of the Parties Involved.
If the Parties Involved decide to instead Settle the Dispute by a Contract made by an Arbitator of whatever choosing they wish. They are allowed to do so.
This Contract however is of course still required to hold true to the National Laws. It can neither Overrule nor Break these Laws.

For example. My Company also holds such Tribunals when Regulations were Broken during Work.
And they can setup Disciplinary Actions as well as settling Disputes of Compensation.
But only if the Worker as well as the Company Allows it.
And only as long as the Contract Formed does not Break any Laws.
The moment they for example say that the Employee is Fired without having been warned because he broke a Regulation.
The Employee can deny this and go to an actual Court. Because the Law States that Breaches of Regulations need to be Warned Once before you can Fire the Employee.
Same if the Employee is Ruled to Pay for Damages resulting from a Mistake he Made.
He can go to the National Court. Because the Law says that he cannot be held for Mistakes and that the Company has to either take the risk or have an Insurance for such. As Humans are not Unfailliable and normal Workers cannot Pay the Cost of a Train Derailing for example. Of course the Employee might still face other Punishments on National Court if he is found to have done the mistake because he was lazy or didnt care etc. But thats for a National Court to Decide.


In the UK.
Example.
If a Man Abuses his Daughter or another Female Child for whatever Reason. And the Sharia Court Rules this is fine and within Muslim Law. This Ruling is useless.
Because the Moment the Police finds out. The matter will go to the National Court. Entirely regardless of whatever the Sharia Court says.



I think I said this on the Refugee Matter already.
But Mate Seriously. Stop believing the Ridiculous Headlines from the Right Wing Papers.
They are Talking alot of Rubbish if the Day is long.


I am sure you read this before.
But in Germany a Judge Ruled that a Man was allowed to Beat his Wife cause he was Muslim and this was in his Culture.
This went all over the Right Wing News after all.
What they did not Report. Was that the Judge short time later was Dismissed from his Post for Breaking his Oath and that the Ruling was Reversed without ever becoming Enacted because it was clearly in Breach of German Laws.


Same for this one.
The Right Wing Newspapers Title Sharia Courts and Law in UK.
They completely leave out that these Courts have no Actual Power but only Serve as Advising Arbitators which Rule According to Sharia and then offer a Contract based on this to Settle this Dispute.
They completely ignore that both Parties involved in the Dispute can refuse this Contract and always go to an actual Court with the matter.
They also talk about it like this Court would even be allowed to Overrule UKs Law or Legalize Criminal Activities. Which is completely Wrong because these Courts have absolutely no Powers on any State Persecution of Criminal Activity and or Laws.


Seriously.
At least look this Stuff up before you Spread it around....
 
My "idea" was more a reaction to the mass immigration we see today. I never had any issue with immigration before. It's the mass immigration that has woken up my protective instincts.

So, tell me, what if they want Sharia Law implemented in Finland? Would you be ok with that? And don't tell me it's never gonna happen. They already have Sharia Courts in Britain. And a major in London who wants to ban women from dressing "naughty". Now THAT'S insane. What next, obligatory Hijab for every woman, to not offend the profet? It will happen when they become enough in numbers, mark my words :p
let me just stop you there with your facts.

yes we have Shari courts in the UK.

but not like you think or imply.

In the UK (and most of the world) the courts will only hear a case (say you are asking for money back from a builder because he did a bad job) once the two parties have tried to resolve their dispute between themselves. the courts will often ask the question "have you tried to sort this out?" and if you haven't the they will refuse to bear the case until you have tried alternative methods.

or this reason there are arbitration services. If a union disagrees with a company they will often go to ACAS the independent arbitration service first.

if you are getting divorced people will be expected to negotiate between their lawyers first.

these Sharia courts are recognised as arbitration services. the principles they apply are Sharia but their decisions are not binding. if a woman thinks the terms of her divorce set out by the Sharia court are unfair she can always go to court which will apply British law which supersedes the decision of any arbitration.

it's not unlike if you were a member of a golf club and agreed to be bound by club rules. when the fine you £10 for wearing spikes in the club house you are being voluntarily abiding by their decision. you always have the option to take it to court which could overule the golf club.

does this mean we have golf club courts in the UK? (no doubt enforcing the wearing of terrible jumpers)
 
The sharia courts. It's really a shame in a western country. In France it's unimaginable. The muslims like other religions must submit themselves to a single law. The laws of the Republic. Binding or not binding, these sharia courts in a western country are a scandal
 
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Did you actually read and understand what Beeleebub actually said? Or did you just see "Sharia courts"

I saw a report on television and I specified in my post "Binding or not binding". If you can not read, I can not do anything for you. Binding or not binding, these sharia courts in a western country are a scandal

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My "idea" was more a reaction to the mass immigration we see today. I never had any issue with immigration before. It's the mass immigration that has woken up my protective instincts.

Obviously. It is not a mass immigration, it is a submersion, a tsunami
 
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I saw a report on television and I specified in my post "Binding or not binding". If you can not read, I can not do anything for you. Binding or not binding, these sharia courts in a western country are a scandal

Actually it is you who is not bothering to read.

As Beeleebub pointed out, such "courts" are not binding. They're a place to dispute matters before going to a court to get it resolved legally.

Many churches offer services involving marriage counseling for example. A couple can attend, and come to an agreement, or not as the case may be. Is the fact they exist at all a "scandal"?

If your kid is bullied, including being physically hit, at school by another kid, before the law and courts are generally brought in the school system, the teachers and careworkers will get involved and see if things can be resolved. If you're not satisfied you can take it further, but is the fact parent-teacher conferences exist at all a "scandal"?

If you're going to be logically consistent here Patrick, and not merely racist, then you have to condemn these things as well. You must march against library overdue book fines and private parking tickets and all manner of other civil arbitration services.
 
the principles they apply are Sharia but their decisions are not binding.

Binding or not binding, the sharia has nothing to do in the West. The Muslims like the others have a only law. The Western law

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If you're going to be logically consistent here Patrick, and not merely racist

I do not like your accusations, you should calm down.

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Many churches offer services involving marriage counseling for example. A couple can attend, and come to an agreement, or not as the case may be. Is the fact they exist at all a "scandal"?

If your kid is bullied, including being physically hit, at school by another kid, before the law and courts are generally brought in the school system, the teachers and careworkers will get involved and see if things can be resolved. If you're not satisfied you can take it further, but is the fact parent-teacher conferences exist at all a "scandal"?

These are Western services. The philosophy of sharia has nothing to do in the West. Muslims (or Jews or Christians etc ...) have at their disposal the Western associations which arbitrate all types of problem, before to go to court
 
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Trump sacked the interim minister hostile to the implementation of the anti-immigration decree. And indicates that the decree is only a first step. Although I find this decree excessive for the people who are residents in the US as they are at their home, and prevent them from returning at their home is a scandal. However, I find that for the newcomers, ("refugees", migrants), it is quite normal that a country, control who comes. It is legitimate
 
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1.
Submersion ? Tsunami ??
LOL.
If you check the Numbers. Its more like a small Cup of Coffee into an Bathtube of Cola....

2.
Sharia Courts are not Courts. They are Arbitators. They make SUGGESTIONS on how to Solve Disputes. And the Parties CAN ACCEPT OR DENY these Suggestions.

3.
Yes. Trump once more stands in Breach of the Constitution as he undermines the neutrality of the Courts and attempts to get rid of anything in his way to Absolute Power.

Welcome to Turkey Number 2.
2 more Years and Critics on Trump will be an Punishable Offense on Open Streets. Let the Purges Begin....
 
They make SUGGESTIONS on how to Solve Disputes.


The sharia does not have to make suggestions in a western country. The sharia, simply does not have the right to exist in a Western country. It is not a matter of courts. It is a philosophical matter, and conditioning of the spirits. In France it is like this that we see the things
 
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The sharia does not have to make suggestions in a western country. The sharia, simply does not have the right to exist in a Western country. It is not a matter of courts. It is a philosophical matter, and conditioning of the spirits. In France it is like this that we see the things

LOL.
It has every Right to Exist in a Western Country.
The Vast Majority of Western Countries have the Right of Freedom on Religious Beliefs in their Constitution.
 
My "idea" was more a reaction to the mass immigration we see today. I never had any issue with immigration before. It's the mass immigration that has woken up my protective instincts.

So, tell me, what if they want Sharia Law implemented in Finland? Would you be ok with that? And don't tell me it's never gonna happen. They already have Sharia Courts in Britain. And a major in London who wants to ban women from dressing "naughty". Now THAT'S insane. What next, obligatory Hijab for every woman, to not offend the profet? It will happen when they become enough in numbers, mark my words :p

Why are you so scared? Why do you think Norwegian culture is so fragile that you need to give up basic decency and humanity to "defend" it.

The things that make the Nordic countries worth something is our culture of tolerance and equality. Your panicky cowardice is making a mockery of that. If we let people like you decide, our countries would quickly lose everything that makes them worth anything.

Sharia law? please. Norway has quite low immigraton numbers, and in general the people who come this far North as refugees or immigrants want to get away from such medieval bullcrap. You are not scared because there is a real invasion threatening Norwegian values or justice system. You are scared because there are now a few brown faces in the streets (though I expect you actually live somewhere remote, where there are practically none).

Grow up man, and look into your recent history. The greatest atrocity of post-war Norway was committed by a white, Christian zealot. That is who Norway needs to watch, in effect, people like you.

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An good example for an Left Wing Radical Ideology which is considered Evil is Communism.
So if you wanna call Adept something to overstate his position beyond any rational tought you would need to call him a Commie :p


Adept is Fairly Center Left Wing tough. Hes neither Radical nor Communist.
Maybe Socialist as he is clearly in Favor of the Democratic System. I am not sure yet myself :p

I'm a Green Party voter and activist (though I should do more). If I had to pick from the bigger parties, the social democrats for sure.
 
The sharia does not have to make suggestions in a western country. The sharia, simply does not have the right to exist in a Western country. It is not a matter of courts. It is a philosophical matter, and conditioning of the spirits. In France it is like this that we see the things

If you and someone had a dispute, maybe they damaged your car and you were arguing over the repairs and, rather than go to court with expensive lawyers, you agreed to meet with an independent party, maybe a local mechanic or the local priest to sort out an agreement would that be wrong?

It is a philosophical argument, are you saying that two people cannot decide amongst themselves how to resolve a dispute. That the French court system is the only permitted dispute resolution system?

"I fancy a burger"...

"I fancy Pizza"....

"Ok, I'll book a court date and we'll let a judge decide on our lunch...."

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Many churches offer services involving marriage counseling for example. A couple can attend, and come to an agreement, or not as the case may be. Is the fact they exist at all a "scandal"?

If your kid is bullied, including being physically hit, at school by another kid, before the law and courts are generally brought in the school system, the teachers and careworkers will get involved and see if things can be resolved. If you're not satisfied you can take it further, but is the fact parent-teacher conferences exist at all a "scandal"?

These are Western services. The philosophy of sharia has nothing to do in the West. Muslims (or Jews or Christians etc ...) have at their disposal the Western associations which arbitrate all types of problem, before to go to court

Are you saying that only certain religious philosophies should be allowed?

That somebody cannot decide they want to be buddist for example?

If you are saying that the only religions that should be allowed in France are Judeo-Christian religions?*

Because that seems an awful lot like the opposite of freedom of religion.


*let's ignore the fact that Islam is branch of that tradition, Mohammed is considered a prophet of the same God that Moses, Abraham etc worshipped and Jesus is explicitly considered a prophet of God which puts them closer to Christianity than Judaism which classes Jesus as a false prophet.
 
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No need to go back to Breivik for examples on what the Islamophobic racism results in actually. This is what the irrational fear and disinformation results in.

Trump Silent As Quebec Mosque Terrorist Is White Christian Pro-Trump Fanatic

Canadian police have just identified the lone gunman who attacked a Quebec mosque during prayers last night, killing five praying Muslims and injuring eight. Alexandre Bissonnettte, a Quebec native, has been taken into police custody.

Not surprisingly, Bissonnette’s Facebook page (since taken down) shows that he “likes” Donald Trump and far-right, Islamophobic French politician Marine Le Pen. He also likes the Christian site Reasonable Faith.

Bissonnettte is ardently pro-Trump and anti-Islam, according to a former classmate of his from Université Laval, who told Heavy.com that Bissonnettte “has right-wing political ideas, pro-Israel, anti-immigration. I had many debates with him about Trump. He was obviously pro-Trump.”

Furthermore, a Facebook group called “Welcome to Refugees – Quebec City” posted that it was familiar with Bissonnettte, and that he is “unfortunately known to several activists in Quebec City for his pro-Le Pen and anti-feminist identity positions at Université Laval and on social networks.” Le Pen is an ardent anti-Muslim French politician who has been closely linked to Trump in the past.

So let’s recap: one day after Donald Trump bans Muslims from several countries because, he claims, they pose a threat to the West, one of HIS deranged followers shoots up a crowd of Muslims whose only crime was peacefully practicing their faith.

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To quote from a friend's FB wall

"Why can't he say the words "White Nationalist Terrorism"? How can he protect us from it if he can't even say the words?"
 

Javert

Volunteer Moderator
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The did leave out the statistic of the number of Americans killed by terrorists on US soil from the 7 countries listed.

Anyone care to guess the answer?
 
Pretty sure soda pop, confectioneries, french fires, auto accidents not involving buses, global warming, cigarettes, and abstinence only sex education dwarf all of those as causes of death.

Anyway, this thread has further convinced me that America has no monopoly on unreasoning bigotry or prejudice, and that people are scum pretty much everywhere. In hind sight, I already knew that people were scum and that they just prefer their own kind of scum to slightly different kinds of scum.
 
Depend on your definition of terrorism. Shootings where the gunman is screaming "Allah Ackbar" can neatly be categorized as "workplace violence"

It should say something about the US that, when someone shoots up a school or office killing dozens of people,they have to pause and say "is this terrorism or just a vanilla mass shooting"

I mean if it's terrorism we can lose our stuff over this and do every possible thing to prevent this ever happening again no matter how disproportionate, but if it's just a bog standard murder spree then we'll shrug and say there is no way we could have stopped this"

If the Sandy Hook killers or Dylan Roof or The Virgina Tech killers had shouted "Allah Akbar!" would the response (effectively a collective "meh") havr been different?
 
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