I would rather like it to be cleaned up and brought up to the professional standards of a single player spacesim.
Modes Can we get more players into Open Play?
I would rather like it to be cleaned up and brought up to the professional standards of a single player spacesim.
I agree. Frontier really never should've bothered putting direct PvP into this game. The resources they've wasted trying to "balance" it would've been better off adding better PvE content, and relegated direct PvP to CQC or perhaps Powerplay in open.
Ok but they did.
So either they remove pvp or give pvp some meaning, otherwise, well... free ganks for everyone.
No, we are not going in a loop - you're walking into a wall and complaining about the wall not moving out of your way.
Every aspect of the game was designed around the mode system. Even PvP.
You cannot just demand core game features be changed because you didn't understand them at the time of buying and expect people who bought the game for those features to support you.
PvP is *OPTIONAL* and does very little for the BGS, unless you have a PvE mission.
In Power Play, PvP gains NOTHING at all and CMDRs are worth ZERO merits, hence why few do PP in Open.
PvP is for fun, nothing more.
Competitive PvP you'll find under "Arena" on your main menu.
But please, carry on ignoring all the information and facts
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Ok and how is this design working for fdev where noone cares about PP?
Maybe enough standing behind this horrible design? It was proven not to work by lack of participants in EDs features.
PvP is for fun, thats the whole problem, do you like how things are in Open? I dont mind since I am untouchable, others should be worried.
Fdev created an enviroment where we can overpower our combat ships, and what am I supposed to be doing with it now? Testing it on other cmdrs wherever they are PvP ready or not, nothing else.
Do I like how things are in open? I love it! It's far removed from my game which is perfect. In your own words, free ganks for everyone, and I'm fine with everyone in open getting ganked. The way I see it, there are plenty of outs for those of us who want less drama in our games.
Some folks do play PP, just because you don't find it engaging doesn't stop others enjoying it.
I love the design, it works really well by allowing us to choose whom we engage with and is a great anti griefing mechanic.
And we can do it in a session by session decision. 1 session I may want to play with others and another I may not.
Glad Frontier did what some games do and have options like this.
Warframe and Star Trek Online both allow me to choose who I interact with, it's awesome.
Proven by who? when? where is this "proof"?
Yup
You can go beat up aliens, you can go play with like minded CMDRs, you can go interfere with CGs in Open or in PGs that allow PvP.
Honestly, it's up to you how to used your ship.
But it is up to me not you, if you get to try and use it on me.
5/7 for a great design
Some folks do play PP, just because you don't find it engaging doesn't stop others enjoying it.
I love the design, it works really well by allowing us to choose whom we engage with and is a great anti griefing mechanic.
And we can do it in a session by session decision. 1 session I may want to play with others and another I may not.
Glad Frontier did what some games do and have options like this.
Warframe and Star Trek Online both allow me to choose who I interact with, it's awesome.
Proven by who? when? where is this "proof"?
Yup
You can go beat up aliens, you can go play with like minded CMDRs, you can go interfere with CGs in Open or in PGs that allow PvP.
Honestly, it's up to you how to used your ship.
But it is up to me not you, if you get to try and use it on me.
5/7 for a great design
You just reinstated the problem in your last paragraph.
What blockade in CG? You can bypass it in solo, what content is there to blockade anyway? Should I use my imagination again?
PG that allows PVP? Yes its called open mode, I am there all the time doing that PvP, which is completely meaningless.
Regarding features not used: PP, Multicrew, CQC. There is absolutely no incentive using those, they serve no ingame purpose.
multicrew is useless even for combat (turrets? really?)
No need to mention CQC.
PP is a multi grind that pays poorly, now this feature has the potential to introduce real PvP content with the changes I suggested. I still cant find a decent explantion except greed by the PG players (that dont care for it anyway) why cant it be an open only feature.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
The explanation is simple - the content was implemented (over two years ago) for all players, not just players that prefer direct PvP.
To suggest that it is greedy to seek to retain access to bought and paid for content seems a bit much - when the proposal (by players who prefer direct PvP) is to remove access to that content from players that don't prefer direct PvP (by restricting access to that content to a single game mode where direct PvP is very much enabled).
Different people enjoy different things. If ED was an offline game, i'd still be enjoying it. However, i certainly enjoy it with the opportunity for some coop play when i get the chance.
If ED could somehow be made balanced in terms of PvP, i'd be more interested in it, but it certainly wouldn't be the driving force for it.
At the end of the day, people who want to PvP have the opportunity. They can contact other PvPers any time they like and orgnaize fights. And it will be a lot more fun and challenge that shooting weak traders (unless of course the person simply gets their kicks from shooting weak traders).
If they want to have a territorial game, they could get a few PvP groups together, find a patch of space somewhere away from other player groups and all agree to fly only in open. Create their own territorial game within the bubble. Of course, to have territorial battles in ED does require a lot of PvE work, since PvP doesn't really do anything for the BGS.
The reason why Power play is not popular, is because it was badly implemented in the first place, with only two very basic activities. Basically it is just one big grind. The reason why I have nothing to do with it.
But some enjoy it an I won't take that away from them.
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The general impression I've gotten from people is that the main reason they don't participate in Powerplay because it is basically divorced from the rest of the game. You have to choose between playing Powerplay, or play the rest of the game. You cannot explore to gain merits for your Power. You cannot mine to bring in resources to help fortify a system. You cannot run missions to undermine an enemy system. You are forced to choose between ABA delivery runs and combat farming. If you don't enjoy either of those activities, your SOL.
Personally, I found the weeks I participated in Powerplay to have provided, consistently, the best PvP experiences I had in the game. I unpledged because I found even maintaining a rank two in my chosen Power to be an unwelcome chore, and the constant NPC interdiction attempts to be a annoying interruption to my game.
I now support my chosen Power via BGS work, by supporting factions friendly to her ethos, or factions unfriendly to Federation Powers.
Yes, that is the whole problem. But personally, I think the main reason why most people don't enjoy PvP in games like Elite are the attitudes you express above. Frontier shares some of the blame, because they failed to implement the second tier of their Crime and Punishment system, which was supposed to deal with player vs player crime.
If they had implemented it before the game went live, preferably before the game left Alpha, there would be a lot more players in Open, because the chronic murderers would find High Security systems hostile to them, and the worst of the worst would be instances only with each other. THAT was Frontier's mistake: not dealing harshly with toxic players, right from the start. They knew they would need to, based on their DDF proposal, but chose not to.
But mostly, it's the attitude that "PvP should only be fun for me" that drives players out of open. If the "PvP" community had the tiniest bit of self awareness, they would realize that they are responsible for their own misery. All it would take would be a little empathy, and some self control, and more people would have fun with PvP in Open. But players with that attitude lack those traits, so I look to Frontier to provide that control.
That is why I favor opt-in PvP systems with incentives to opt in. The type of player that prefers to attack players who have consented, by opting in, to PvP tends to want both players to have fun during the encounter. They realize that players who have fun in PvP will keep participating in PvP. Those are the kinds of players I want to play with. But unfortunately, they're kind of hard to find unless I actively seek them out.
In the mean time, at least I have the option to leave Open with my stuff if it ever becomes unbearable. Or if I'm getting used to a new ship, or HOTAS. Or I'm just not in the mood to deal with the other kind of player's crappy "emergent content."
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It's the daytime thing. When I took a new position in my company that required working weekends and starting at 5am, suddenly my game sessions went from frequent and annoying PK attacks, to one in the last year. If you don't play during local prime time or the weekend, you won't see many people.
The other part of it is how empty Open is in general. I encountered more people on a daily basis during the Small Worlds 2 expedition, which used a private group, than I did in Open outside of hot spots. Think about that for a second.
This isn't EVE, we don't have player run blockades.
Even if the whole game was Open only - the block feature would bypass your player blockade.
If Frontier want a blockade, you'll know about it. as all modes will get an armada of NPC ships enforcing one.
Plenty of PGs that ban PvP in normal areas have PvP in set areas (like in CZs)
Mobius is the only group I know off that has a full on blanket ban on any PvP - and that is because of some other groups griefing in PGs in Mobius, so they put a blanket ban in place.
CQC/Arena needs the option to queue up for it in the main game, then it may get more folks playing it - having to sit in a "Looking for Match" screen puts me off it.
If I could queue up and go about my business until it is ready. I'd be in the queue all the time. (This is one of the main suggests to fix CQC)
I use multi crew with my friends. We have a great laugh with it. Mainly we use SLFs, but sometimes we chill and my crew mate uses my turrets / missile launchers (as the accuracy is improved with a player controlling them).
I don't PP at the moment as I'm changing my fleet of ships about. But I will be going to get the prismatic shields soon.
They will be nice on my Cutter
And yet again, Power Play is not PvP nor is it intended to be used with PvP - that's why players are not worth anything when killed.
PP = PvE
You want CGs in Open for your pew pew. And even then you only get WILLING soft targets.
Do the numbers of the total player base and even if majority is not open (unlikely), it still leaves around 500k users in open or are you saying that out of 1 mil of active players, 40k in Mobius and the rest 900k is in solo? Common lets just use common sense.
This isn't EVE, we don't have player run blockades.
Even if the whole game was Open only - the block feature would bypass your player blockade.
If Frontier want a blockade, you'll know about it. as all modes will get an armada of NPC ships enforcing one.
Plenty of PGs that ban PvP in normal areas have PvP in set areas (like in CZs)
Mobius is the only group I know off that has a full on blanket ban on any PvP - and that is because of some other groups griefing in PGs in Mobius, so they put a blanket ban in place.
CQC/Arena needs the option to queue up for it in the main game, then it may get more folks playing it - having to sit in a "Looking for Match" screen puts me off it.
If I could queue up and go about my business until it is ready. I'd be in the queue all the time. (This is one of the main suggests to fix CQC)
I use multi crew with my friends. We have a great laugh with it. Mainly we use SLFs, but sometimes we chill and my crew mate uses my turrets / missile launchers (as the accuracy is improved with a player controlling them).
I don't PP at the moment as I'm changing my fleet of ships about. But I will be going to get the prismatic shields soon.
They will be nice on my Cutter
And yet again, Power Play is not PvP nor is it intended to be used with PvP - that's why players are not worth anything when killed.
PP = PvE
You want CGs in Open for your pew pew. And even then you only get WILLING soft targets.
PP is supposed to be PvP, otherwise what is the point of having yet another layer of PVE grind, BGS manipulation is already there.
The only reason that PK give one merit is the same reason player bounty caps at 1mil, FDEV are terrified of exploits.
PP has all the ingredients in having proper PvP content over territory, you can undermine player traders that expand/fortify.
You can protect those same traders from counter attacks, exploration doesnt have a role there, but combat and data delievery/trade sure do.
Fdev almost got it right.... almost
Based on what people say in the forum there's a tiny minority who insist on open all the time, a very large number who do whatever they like whenever they like, lots of solo players and lots of PVP'ers who endlessly grind in solo between visits to open. But the commonest attitude you see across the board is stay away from busy area's like Shinrata, CG's and engineers in open.
So it's hard to tell, the majority could easily be in open but given the scale of the game you just won't see them.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
It offers opportunities for consensual PvP, yes. It does not in and of itself require direct PvP.
No, it is not PvP activity. Else it would be founded on PvP. It is not.
But let's pretend you get your wish. PP is restricted to Open only.
What do you HONESTLY assume to happen? Do you think you will have opportunity to get all giddy with excitement as flood of ships appears in open to struggle to do the REAL PP activity of PvE grind? For you to blow up with actually no relevance to the PP you were claiming to be trying to "save"?
I think not. PP would be MORE dead than it is now, because practically nobody would find it worthwhile to come to open to become targets for you to shoot for no reason at all. And because they no longer can participate outside open, then PP would experience total death where few people would do little bit of it while dodging whatever PvP "blockader" they might end up instanced with.
But it does not stop there! Because what you HAVE achieved is remove yet another piece of content for people who do not want to be your content. Their world is that much more empty, because they no longer have even the option of playing PP. And that means they are that much more likely to be fed up and sick of the game and decide to do something else with their time. And money.
Are you going to compensate with your wallet for any possible amount of PvE players lost because their content was reduced at the wish of PvP community? If not, why the hell should Frontier start to punish majority of it's customerbase? You do know that PvP people are not majority right?