Modes Can we get more players into Open Play?

[relayer]

Open has all the risks while the biggest risk in solo is getting stuck in the mail slot.

You are so right! It would be really bad if there were AI-piloted ships out to boil you up!

[edit] plus, the mail slot ain't nothin' - try having your SRV get jammed up in a Thargoid site and having to self-destruct because there's no one there to give you a nudge

 

[ALGOMATIC]

You are so right! It would be really bad if there were AI-piloted ships out to boil you up!

[edit] plus, the mail slot ain't nothin' - try having your SRV get jammed up in a Thargoid site and having to self-destruct because there's no one there to give you a nudge

AI piloted ships are the biggest joke in the game.

 

[Rampant]

There is no need, you can shame them.

So you agree that what you said was incorrect. Thanks.

And what "function" does shaming provide, I wonder, and where exactly are these people "shamed"? Because seriously, the "shamed" player likely doesn't see it and doesn't likely care even if they did see, so a profoundly inconsequential act.

Cheerz

Mark H

 

[Han Zulu]

No you don't. You don't have the ability to boot combat loggers in open.

Very true.

If someone creates a PG for the purpose of PvP, and then if someone is guilty of clogging, then just remove them from the PG. Now, the consequences of clogging is much more severe, but also, those who play in the PG are doing so with the strict intent of PvP. It's like having a contract. You sign up for the rules to be part of the group.

 

[Roybe]

AI piloted ships are the biggest joke in the game.

They wouldn't be but the PVE and PVP players demanded that MoM™ tone them down. So look to your fellow players on both sides of the issue on the current state of the AI in the game! At least with the C&P update there will be harsh AI sent in to straighten things out!

 

[Robert Maynard]

At least with the C&P update there will be harsh AI sent in to straighten things out!

I doubt very much that the ATR will be able to be ignored.

 

[Roybe]

I doubt very much that the ATR will be able to be ignored.

It will be interesting to see the communities reaction to these NPC's....

 

[ALGOMATIC]

So you agree that what you said was incorrect. Thanks.

And what "function" does shaming provide, I wonder, and where exactly are these people "shamed"? Because seriously, the "shamed" player likely doesn't see it and doesn't likely care even if they did see, so a profoundly inconsequential act.

Cheerz

Mark H

Whats incorrect?

Yes they do care believe me, they are appearing in YouTube on a name and shame subreddit, its not a pleasant place to be, and I remembered few names and believe it or not but I met few of them in the game, reminded them of their wrong doings. They do care, trust me.

 

[Robert Maynard]

It will be interesting to see the communities reaction to these NPC's....

It will, indeed - we should see in the Q1 update (if I've interpreted what Sandro has said correctly).

 

[ALGOMATIC]

It will, indeed - we should see in the Q1 update (if I've interpreted what Sandro has said correctly).

I think the PVE players will suffer the most, pvpiers are only waiting to shoot at something, and if its shoots back - even better.

 

[verminstar]

I doubt very much that the ATR will be able to be ignored.

This one of those times when I feel like a kid pressing grubby hands on the window and wondering why I have no idea what yer on about...what is an ATR and why would it be hard to ignore when just about anything else in the game can be ignored?

Judging from the context between yerself and roybe, Im guessing some sorta new npc? Genuinely confused have no idea what an ATR is. Cant be ignored suggest perhaps a neon pink paintjob maybe?

 

[Robert Maynard]

This one of those times when I feel like a kid pressing grubby hands on the window and wondering why I have no idea what yer on about...what is an ATR and why would it be hard to ignore when just about anything else in the game can be ignored?

Judging from the context between yerself and roybe, Im guessing some sorta new npc? Genuinely confused have no idea what an ATR is. Cant be ignored suggest perhaps a neon pink paintjob maybe?

ATR = Advanced Tactical Responders = NPCs sent to deal with particularly prolific offenders. They will have access to Engineered ships (possibly with modifications beyond what players can achieve) and munitions designed to delay (significantly) high-waking - and I expect that MoM™ will be permitted to dial up the AI too....

 

[Robert Maynard]

I think the PVE players will suffer the most, pvpiers are only waiting to shoot at something, and if its shoots back - even better.

Clean PvE players probably won't encounter them - not on the wrong side, anyway.

 

[Maka Gucci]

I think the PVE players will suffer the most, pvpiers are only waiting to shoot at something, and if its shoots back - even better.

I dislike that generalization.
It's a common narrative, and one which I think is driven by people who never (rarely) attempt PvP. Sure their are a lot of that type of player about, more so because the time sink required to be competitive is so huge and the incentive to play in Open so small, it encourages more of one type of player than all the others.
But I would argue they aren't even PvPers, since they don't want to actually go against another player, just get an easy kill over them.

But it's but no means all the players who like to PvP.
This is most true for PP PvPers, more than half I encounter give warning ("leave the system" type thing), entertaining chat over com, and are interested in duels more than slaughter/easy kills.

It's like the narrative that PvPers are tryna show off their D size.
People who have fought me can attest, I'm coming in non optimal, fun builds. iEagle tanks, and Cobra III's. My most deadly PvP ship is a Courier.
Winning is great, but it's not about that (I lose more than I win). I and many others are in it for the challenge, and the type of sweaty palms you just don't get when facing AI.

It's like people who who don't like roller coasters, claiming anyone who goes on 'em is just tryna show off

o7, all.

 

[Roybe]

This one of those times when I feel like a kid pressing grubby hands on the window and wondering why I have no idea what yer on about...what is an ATR and why would it be hard to ignore when just about anything else in the game can be ignored?

Judging from the context between yerself and roybe, Im guessing some sorta new npc? Genuinely confused have no idea what an ATR is. Cant be ignored suggest perhaps a neon pink paintjob maybe?

ATR = Advanced Tactical Responders = NPCs sent to deal with particularly prolific offenders. They will have access to Engineered ships (possibly with modifications beyond what players can achieve) and munitions designed to delay (significantly) high-waking - and I expect that MoM™ will be permitted to dial up the AI too....

Sorry about that verminstar...what Robert said.

The past problems PVP players had with AI tweaks was the AI was supposedly acting outside the range of human capabilities...thus they demanded a dial down of the AI...

Now, announced recently is the ATR NPC's..basically, NPCs equipped with stuff that is not available to players in game, using AI that is possibly at the level of human capabilities or beyond that capability. To be used as a harsh punishment for those that want to be naughty. You know, the P part of C&P.

My thoughts on this will be a large hue and cry from PVP folks over the unfairness of the punishment...since they will be hard put to kill the authority vessels...if at all capable.

One other caveat that Robert is minimizing...PVE players are also naughty...and will be targeted similarly....it is just less tricky for them because they know if they attack an NPC the police will show up...in PVP, mistakes can be made and one player inadvertently...or vertenetly....could leave report crimes on...and well...things would get real ugly...

 

[ALGOMATIC]

Sorry about that verminstar...what Robert said.

The past problems PVP players had with AI tweaks was the AI was supposedly acting outside the range of human capabilities...thus they demanded a dial down of the AI...

Now, announced recently is the ATR NPC's..basically, NPCs equipped with stuff that is not available to players in game, using AI that is possibly at the level of human capabilities or beyond that capability. To be used as a harsh punishment for those that want to be naughty. You know, the P part of C&P.

My thoughts on this will be a large hue and cry from PVP folks over the unfairness of the punishment...since they will be hard put to kill the authority vessels...if at all capable.

One other caveat that Robert is minimizing...PVE players are also naughty...and will be targeted similarly....it is just less tricky for them because they know if they attack an NPC the police will show up...in PVP, mistakes can be made and one player inadvertently...or vertenetly....could leave report crimes on...and well...things would get real ugly...

Based on what did you assume that?
Almost all pvpiers (myself included) are multi billionaires, you think a 3.5mil rebuy on my FAS bothers me?
I die around 5 times per session, another kill by ATR wont change anything.

 

[Rampant]

Whats incorrect?

When suggesting that a PvP PG which, amongst other things, you could boot out combat loggers, you said no need you can do all that in Open. You appeared to miss the important point. In Open, *you* can't boot combat loggers.

So you either missed that as an honest mistake, which is only human, or you ignored that deliberately, which is *not* cool.

Given the second chance, it appears you still didn't accept your mistake? Or continued to deliberately ignore?

The upshot?
I'm having trouble trusting you.

When you mention subreddit. I say *what*?

You reckon people use that? I certainly don't. And you then reckon that people who "cheat" using combat logging are "trustworthy", and that I can trust you that they care?

Analysis? I think differently. I don't believe that a combat logger would care 2 hoots about being "shamed" on an obscure resource. I also wouldn't trust that if combat logger were asked face to face whether they care about being shamed that they would tell the truth.

We both agree that combat logging is "dishonest", right? Then why trust what someone who acts dishonestly says?

Yours Aye

Mark H

 

[Han Zulu]

When suggesting that a PvP PG which, amongst other things, you could boot out combat loggers, you said no need you can do all that in Open. You appeared to miss the important point. In Open, *you* can't boot combat loggers.

So you either missed that as an honest mistake, which is only human, or you ignored that deliberately, which is *not* cool.

Given the second chance, it appears you still didn't accept your mistake? Or continued to deliberately ignore?

The upshot?
I'm having trouble trusting you.

When you mention subreddit. I say *what*?

You reckon people use that? I certainly don't. And you then reckon that people who "cheat" using combat logging are "trustworthy", and that I can trust you that they care?

Analysis? I think differently. I don't believe that a combat logger would care 2 hoots about being "shamed" on an obscure resource. I also wouldn't trust that if combat logger were asked face to face whether they care about being shamed that they would tell the truth.

We both agree that combat logging is "dishonest", right? Then why trust what someone who acts dishonestly says?

Yours Aye

Mark H

And also, what's the guarantee that the "shame" thread on reddit is even valid? I bet there are "shame griefing" going on as well. Someone might have been bumped off, banned, or shamed, and is now logging non-cloggers on the clog-shame wall. Which results in a completely useless list.

Doing PvP in a PG means that someone would be the moderator of who can be there and who cannot. It's more definitive than an arbitrary shame wall.

 

[ALGOMATIC]

When suggesting that a PvP PG which, amongst other things, you could boot out combat loggers, you said no need you can do all that in Open. You appeared to miss the important point. In Open, *you* can't boot combat loggers.

So you either missed that as an honest mistake, which is only human, or you ignored that deliberately, which is *not* cool.

Given the second chance, it appears you still didn't accept your mistake? Or continued to deliberately ignore?

The upshot?
I'm having trouble trusting you.

When you mention subreddit. I say *what*?

You reckon people use that? I certainly don't. And you then reckon that people who "cheat" using combat logging are "trustworthy", and that I can trust you that they care?

Analysis? I think differently. I don't believe that a combat logger would care 2 hoots about being "shamed" on an obscure resource. I also wouldn't trust that if combat logger were asked face to face whether they care about being shamed that they would tell the truth.

We both agree that combat logging is "dishonest", right? Then why trust what someone who acts dishonestly says?

Yours Aye

Mark H

What on earth are you talking about, who said anyhting about booting them. They are being named and shamed, that's all that matters.

I already told you from first hand expirience that they do care. They will also care if you announce it on the comms in local (not direct). They are also chased since they are on a KOS list.

We dont need pvp PG, I consider them lame and against the spirit of the game. Open is the only mode that matters for me.

 

[Roybe]

Based on what did you assume that?
Almost all pvpiers (myself included) are multi billionaires, you think a 3.5mil rebuy on my FAS bothers me?
I die around 5 times per session, another kill by ATR wont change anything.

Previous disccussions from the PVP and PVE folks that resulted in the dialing down of the AI in the past....sorry...but if the AI is to hard..everybody complains...

..and to put a point on the discussion of C&P..this is why monetary damages won't change the way the criminal element plays! There has to be some disincentive through time sinks, very harsh monetary outcomes (% of total not flat rate of pay)...