Modes Can we secede Open Play data from other modes.

[Dietger]

And that of course, is your opinion, which you've a right to. Others may and often do disagree.

You see, all that hyperbole that people used to defend why PvP exists in Open is also detrimental to the "cause". When you tell others to "git gud or go play in Solo/PG's" they start listening.

Now what you have as a result, is wolves hunting wolves. Enjoy yourself. It's what you wanted, after all- isn't it?

We do have (all) a choice here.
I would prefer - we would not. You know me.
But that's just me and I know most PvPers of course.

You do play a mode you enjoy yourself Sylveria, I am happy you can! You have my respect.

The bitter joke is, getting something fundamentally competitive like PVP into a system, essentially geared to avoiding all competence by choices!
On top of that, migrating safty into a system, living of offence, assault and competition. They wanted it all, all in one bag, but PVP feeds of life players not fancy gearing.

PvP is not understood by Frontier.

 

[Jockey79]

PvP is not understood by Frontier.

+1

This I can agree with.

 

[Dietger]

Oh I'm not Dietger.

The people who think Frontier will bend to their will are the delusional ones, Frontier have always wanted and supported the Mode System from the very start.

Hope you've had a good holiday season by the way.

I am doing well here, I always do [weird]

Cheers!

 

[Sylveria]

We do have (all) a choice here.
I would prefer - we would not. You know me.
But that's just me and I know most PvPers of course.

You do play a mode you enjoy yourself Sylveria, I am happy you can! You have my respect.

The bitter joke is, getting something fundamentally competitive like PVP into a system, essentially geared to avoiding all competence by choices!
On top of that, migrating safty into a system, living of offence, assault and competition. They wanted it all, all in one bag, but PVP feeds of life players not fancy gearing.

PvP is not understood by Frontier.

Indeed, you do prefer we all do not have a choice. And it's great that we all do.

Some want to "shoot stuff", some want to "shoot other players", some want "explore the galaxy", and some want to play "truck driver".

Yet, only one of those options has the ability not only to interfere with others experience, but it's entirely non-consensual. What happens if I don't want to "engage you in combat"? I simply don't get a choice because that's your wish? What about my wish?

That's why the modes exist. Not everyone wanted to play Space Paintball.

 

[Dietger]

Indeed, you do prefer we all do not have a choice. And it's great that we all do.

Some want to "shoot stuff", some want to "shoot other players", some want "explore the galaxy", and some want to play "truck driver".

Yet, only one of those options has the ability not only to interfere with others experience, but it's entirely non-consensual. What happens if I don't want to "engage you in combat"? I simply don't get a choice because that's your wish? What about my wish?

That's why the modes exist. Not everyone wanted to play Space Paintball.

There is more to PVP than this.

Braben expected PVP to be meaningful, but at large forget to implement a meaningful cause of it.

Autism of Elite excludes all seemingly offensive;

PVP

 

[Zieman]

Braben expected PVP to be meaningful,

You omitted one important word: rare.

How Braben supposed PvP to be was "rare and meaningful".

 

[Jockey79]

There is more to PVP than this.

Braben expected PVP to be meaningful, but at large forget to implement a meaningful cause of it.

Autism of Elite excludes all seemingly offensive;

PVP

While I like that quote from DBOBE, it is entirely subjective.

Some folks find consensual PvP in the PvP Hub to be "meaningful", others don't.
Some folks find four combat ships on one unarmed trader to be "meaningful", others don't.
Some find PvP in Power Play to be "meaningful" and others don't.

We can assign whatever "meaning" we like to PvP in game as it stands.

How can Frontier give PvP "meaning", when not all people who PvP can agree on it themselves?

 

[Jockey79]

You omitted one important word: rare.

How Braben supposed PvP to be was "rare and meaningful".

Good catch, I missed that bit.

 

[Dietger]

You omitted one important word: rare.

How Braben supposed PvP to be was "rare and meaningful".

Your right.

Now is it?

 

[Sylveria]

Your right.

Now is it?

He also expected Space Legs, too. (Among many other things)

 

[Zieman]

Your right.

Now is it?

Rare? Depends on how one wants it - anything between totally unexistent and pretty much constant.
Meaningful? Again depends on the participant(s) - what meaning do they assign to their activities.

 

[Dietger]

Rare? Depends on how one wants it - anything between totally unexistent and pretty much constant.
Meaningful? Again depends on the participant(s) - what meaning do they assign to their activities.

Well the cynical self I seem to become of age suggests, he is right.

Rarely meaningful

If honorable judges of Hotel California are to trust.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Right now Rare and Meaningful are killing the people that dont want to die.

Right now Rare and Meaningful is killing someone to get a reaction out of them.

It could be Rare and Meaningful gameplay within the game. That everyone would have to be a part of if they wish to continue those activities against each other.

Otherwise, right now Rare and Meaningful is nothing more than a drama show.

Good luck with distant worlds

 

[Dietger]

Right now Rare and Meaningful are killing the people that dont want to die.

Right now Rare and Meaningful is killing someone to get a reaction out of them.

It could be Rare and Meaningful gameplay within the game. That everyone would have to be a part of if they wish to continue those activities against each other.

Otherwise, right now Rare and Meaningful is nothing more than a drama show.

Good luck with distant worlds

Yes.

A conscious decision toward something. Player choices and no excuses.

Cause and effect.

 

[Sylveria]

Rare? Depends on how one wants it - anything between totally unexistent and pretty much constant.
Meaningful? Again depends on the participant(s) - what meaning do they assign to their activities.

Indeed, which is where the crux lies with many of these "conversations" we have here. It's all quite subjective.

Which is why one must truly seek to define the activity in order to give it "meaning" to begin with. Problem is, when you define it not everything is "fair game" anymore, which is what most seem to want to avoid. Everyone has their own definition... and everyone seeks their own meaning.

I also think it's hilarious that some seem to think "griefing" would disappear if "PvP had meaning".

Because you know, all the criminals disappear when we have justice systems. *poof*

 

[Dietger]

Yes.

A conscious decision toward something. Player choices and no excuses.

Cause and effect.

Konsequenzen

 

[Robert Maynard]

Take some missions and lose rep and time as well as rebuy. Lose enough and your mission status isint that great and you cant take the better+++++ missions if you fail them.

In a conflict zone with those new interactions? Winning those conflict zones can have a pretty decent impact. They also give people objectives to fight over.

Someone murdering all the cops and people in a system to lower and boost inf? Kill them and send them to jail. While claiming the bounty money. You can also make them have a pretty decent rebuy with the new rework. A few PVPers have had over 1 billion in rebuy at one time.

ATR is delayed for a reason to still give time for that interaction between players before they show up to help.

Time, efficiency and your pockets. That is whats punished here. Risk and Reward vs the people you are affecting.

Temporarily impairing a CMDR's effectiveness does not take pieces off the field. It may slow them down - but unless there's going to be a 24/7/3 Platform patrol, many would be missed.

All of those are winning and losing conditions. They are available now at the flip of a switch. Its like they reworked all those things on purpose....

Short term goals - the BGS starts again each day and does not stop counting. There are no permanent "wins" or "losses".

What you're doing is removing those winning and losing conditions. Essentially breaking a gameplay loop, reasons to work together, reasons to use specific modules and engineering.

I'm removing nothing - Frontier did not choose to implement the game in a manner where those became PvP win/lose conditions - because the BGS is for all players, as they recently reminded us.

You also remove the reason for PVP having meaning behind it. Instead of leaving everyone else to get "griefed" because no one is going to freely put themselves at risk over an objective if they dont have to.

To remove something, it had to be there in the first place.

And you cant get over being shot at in a video game while doing those things? Its dumb.

I'm quite happy to get shot at if the game decides I need to be - as we agreed previously, Frontier are in control of the parameters regarding game difficulty....

And it shouldn't be held back by people like you that doesnt understand why losing matters.

Of course losing matters - but the form of the contest is up to each player.

.... and whether the game is being "held back", or not, is a matter of opinion. I accept the three mode / shared galaxy state design - and have done since the very beginning. It's Frontier's design - and they have not only stuck to it for over six years but have recently clearly restated it.

The last thing you should be worried about is a "playstyle" if the intent is affecting someone else. Playstyle doesnt mean a damn thing here.

If play-style doesn't matter, why are some players intent on forcing their optional play-style on others who don't share their preference?

 

[Dietger]

You have no chance
So go for it
Idioti
​

 

[phong]

On the thirteenth day of crumble mr maynard comes to call with a basket of yaffle hammerz.

 

[Robert Maynard]

On the thirteenth day of crumble mr maynard comes to call with a basket of yaffle hammerz.

Nope.

Simply because, as a Moderator, there is a proscription against Moderating threads participated in as a forum user.