How do antiviruses work then? If you accept the terms that the company has the right to scan your processes for known cheats or any kind of manipulation regarding the game in order to keep it fair for everyone, I'd gladly accept those terms and in that case they would have the full right to do so.
Cheating in Elite Dangerous
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How do antiviruses work then? If you accept the terms that the company has the right to scan your processes for known cheats or any kind of manipulation regarding the game in order to keep it fair for everyone, I'd gladly accept those terms and in that case they would have the full right to do so.
That guy has no idea what he's talking about. Every online multiplayer game has an anti-cheat that monitors your game/memory/processes and you give explicit consent when you buy and launch the game.
The Replicated Man
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Speaking of monitoring there was a rumor going around that EDR was spyware? Apparently a few people had found out that it had been snooping around in places it shouldn't have been. That's all I heard myself.
EDR? AS ED Recon?
The Replicated Man
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Yes correct. This was denied by the developer of said software, but rumors are still floating around...
It's written in Python and everyone has its sources and is able to review it. There are no binaries installed.
The Replicated Man
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Ok good to know. I personally like the idea and found the software to be handy, I am no programmer though and can't distinguish Python from Chinese...
Any software that's distributed over GitHub is easily checked for potential malicious code, because source code in readable form is obtainable. Nothing can be hidden.
Potentially dangerous are executable files that can't easily be checked.
The valid usage policy is in the EULA/Terms of Use. A strict reading of it would imply that VA is prohibited, and that Frontier could crack down on it's use at any time. Additionally, the EULA makes it clear that, to any and all legal extent possible, Frontier doesn't guarantee anything, including one's continued access to the game.
Of course, Frontier is highly tolerant of and has even advocated the use of mild forms of automation to enhance the game experience. This is the precedent they have set; it's less the tool than what you do with it.
I use the CH Control Manager with my CH Products controls. It applies sensitivity slopes to a few of my analog axes and combines the toe breaks into a single axis so I can use them for forward/reverse thrust. This seems to be well within the bounds of precedent for acceptable use. The game has it's own power slope for mouse input (as does Windows) and Frontier has explicitly or tacitly advocated basic 3rd party tools of this type. They are also standard with a great many controls.
However, I could use the same tools to heavily automate parts of the game and this would be cheating. It would provide abilities that would not be reasonable to expect others to have, that would constitute an unfair advantage.
The same premise would apply to Voice Attack. Having it translate verbal commands directly into individual control inputs, or very simple control combinations, is one thing. Having it play the game for you would be something entirely different.
Surely, there are some tools that are never acceptable, but most tools that are acceptable in some situations could certainly be used for unacceptable purposes...which is surely why Frontier issues broad prohibitions then selectively enforces them.
As others have mentioned, most games include terms that allow them to do just these sorts of things. It's not a breach of privacy, nor out of their acceptable level of control, if you agree to it.
The Replicated Man
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Most don't read the fine print.
If that 'other guy' is me.. you're talking through your hat.
And it's not a breach of anything if I disable it. Also monitoring or capturing any data on a personal machine is a direct breach of GDPR. Before any data can be captured, the company must state what is being captured, why it is being captured, and what is being done with that information and how long it is being kept. Further, the game is rated for 'teens'. Try brining a 'teen' to court because they flaunted your T&C...
There's a reason games companies don't mention what they are doing. Blizzard were forced to make public what their charges to GameGuardian or whatever they called it was doing, because it was found to be a rootkit. That eventually changed to a standard exe. Another company was using a program called 'sentinel' (if my memory serves me correctly) again, it was rootkit.
Back to 'cheating' - Once I don't mess with their memory space, I am not cheating. (read as not in game cheating)
As Morbad mentioned above, most controllers even mice, these days have extra buttons for macros. If I have a 24 button matrix Arduino board setup that emulates the same keys that Elite Uses, and I use that to send the keystrokes, it is perfectly legal. Does it offer me an advantage? yes it does. because simply put, I can built and create anything type of HiD device I want, where-as the majority of other players cannot. Further, those keystrokes are sent way faster than any human can press buttons. And this is where VA comes into its own. It performs these multiple actions almost faster than the eye can monitor. Even worse, VA can be programmed to jump, and even nose down the ship and perform a honk, all without touching a button.
I think we all need to take a step back. Cheating is bad. but we must describe literally what cheating actually is. A statement like gaining an advantage by using a controller or whatever is just silly. Every kid on the block has some form of controller. Some kids are very good at tweaking those controllers and macros while others are not.
The real 'cheating' (in my personal opinion) is modifying memory, ships, modules, stats so as to gain an advantage over another player or gain an advantage in an in game mini-game. (ala BGS). I wouldn't consider autopilot a cheat, however having a god mode ship is definitely cheating. Being able to autopilot to wherever gives me no advantage over anyone else, but being immune to anything you can fire at me, almost certainly does.
To battle the bots/cheaters, you have to think like them and then make it as difficult as possible for them to ply their trade. You will never beat a cheat, but if they have to write new cheats every week, they'll soon get tired of it. Fight the battles you can win and forget the rest.
Memory watchers are last decade. they are easily disabled or proxied. The battle is fought on the lines. Watch the data coming down the lines.
If it's stated by tos, which you accepted, then it's a breach of tos and the service provider has the right to terminate the service. You as a consumer have the right to choose if you accept those terms or not. Regardless if it's your personal machine or not, the program is still their property aka their service, you have no right to alter it. If you disagree with that, you can always not accept the terms and not use the service, it is that simple. The gas and electricity company have their meters in my home, it is not my property and even though it's in my home, it is illegal for me to alter them, I accepted those terms when I asked them for their service.
I think this is where most agree.
Having keys reassigned to a different keyboard (regardless of what it is) is very different from having a macro doing automated actions. I personally didn't use a single macro command for a long time, not even for pip management as I thought it was cheating since some don't have such mouse/keyboards, until I found out that it's allowed by Fdev.
Most cases fall down to common sense, like the one you mentioned above with godmode and altering stats. If it's something you're unsure of (like macro pip management) then it's best to research/ask if it's allowed. Software and technology will keep advancing and having an updated list is just nonsensical as anything new can come up at any time so it's best left for case by case, if you are unsure, ask.
Maybe I should talk a little about the past and the wide perspective of cheats.
I'm an old guy, ZX spectrum was my youth. I remember, at that time, video-game magazines weekly published the best "pokes" to cheat at zx spectrum games.
Then came the time of in-game cheats. Most of you will know this. On consoles, it was the right-left-up-left-right-start etc... sort of key combos that would give you some cheat ability. Or the special word typed in the level code box, or in the player's name box. Each game had its own.
Skyrim and many other rpgs had the console shortcut, where you could type a lot of different things and cheat to your heart's content.
But things changed with multiplayer games. Early games like quake, or duke nukem 3d, where most multiplayer was on LAN or phone lines between friends, you would get ed with your friend if he cheated, argue with him, and he would stop cheating or be left out of the party. Sometimes, it was a cheat galore, agreed by everyone, just to see how stupid the game could turn.
There was no damage there, and the game companies didn't care. They did care about illegal sharing of game copies - piracy, warez - because that would make them loose money.
Muds, MMOs, MMORPGs came. Things started to get serious, because there was competition, people didn't know each other to the point of "forgiving" a friend for being an ole.
Much like when people in real life enter a car, and suddenly the world around is a racing track where everyone is a contender, and every pawn crossing the street is a jerk, online video-games nurtured the unforgiving player, the serious player, the competitive player. And since many of these games make money from that competition, or depend on the player numbers to keep the game active and going, cheating became a no-no. And that's good. Kids should learn that rule. No cheating in online games.
So, if you are a father, mother, or even granny, teach the young ones about this. It's important. Why? because they learn by example, and they will go on to behave in real life like how they do in video-games.
I'll leave a special note to another kind of game that appeared; the sandbox online games. In these games, the array of foolishness is so great, that nobody really bothers with cheats. There are too many possibilities available to jerk around, no cheating needed at all.
I'm an old guy, ZX spectrum was my youth. I remember, at that time, video-game magazines weekly published the best "pokes" to cheat at zx spectrum games.
Then came the time of in-game cheats. Most of you will know this. On consoles, it was the right-left-up-left-right-start etc... sort of key combos that would give you some cheat ability. Or the special word typed in the level code box, or in the player's name box. Each game had its own.
Skyrim and many other rpgs had the console shortcut, where you could type a lot of different things and cheat to your heart's content.
But things changed with multiplayer games. Early games like quake, or duke nukem 3d, where most multiplayer was on LAN or phone lines between friends, you would get ed with your friend if he cheated, argue with him, and he would stop cheating or be left out of the party. Sometimes, it was a cheat galore, agreed by everyone, just to see how stupid the game could turn.
There was no damage there, and the game companies didn't care. They did care about illegal sharing of game copies - piracy, warez - because that would make them loose money.
Muds, MMOs, MMORPGs came. Things started to get serious, because there was competition, people didn't know each other to the point of "forgiving" a friend for being an ole.
Much like when people in real life enter a car, and suddenly the world around is a racing track where everyone is a contender, and every pawn crossing the street is a jerk, online video-games nurtured the unforgiving player, the serious player, the competitive player. And since many of these games make money from that competition, or depend on the player numbers to keep the game active and going, cheating became a no-no. And that's good. Kids should learn that rule. No cheating in online games.
So, if you are a father, mother, or even granny, teach the young ones about this. It's important. Why? because they learn by example, and they will go on to behave in real life like how they do in video-games.
I'll leave a special note to another kind of game that appeared; the sandbox online games. In these games, the array of foolishness is so great, that nobody really bothers with cheats. There are too many possibilities available to jerk around, no cheating needed at all.
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The goal isn't to bring anyone to court--which would be a complete waste of time, money, and probably customer good-will, even if it were a slam dunk of a case--it's to cover their own bases against potential litigation if they feel the need to suspend service to a customer.
This is why EULA are broad and generally vague. The services offered are as conditional and arbitrary as the law allows, specifically so they don't need to give specifics for removing disruptive players. They are well aware that not everything in a blanket EULA/ToS that is the same across a score of countries is going to be legally enforceable, and that is entirely beside the point.
All the EULA/ToS ultimately says is that if you don't play the game in accordance with their vision, they will remove you from it, if they can be bothered to care. The problem isn't what they can do, their legal bases should be covered a half-dozen ways, it's what they have the will to do.
The dictionary definition works fine.
I don't agree in the slightest with this distinction.
An autopilot, beyond those that exist in game, as part of the game, could provide you with an enormous advantage in many scenarios and that advantage could easily be scaled. It's also categorically unfair, as is anything that results in a player gaining the advantages of playing, without actually having to play. Simply not having to manipulate your own controls, reducing your workload, or allowing you to do something else, is an advantage in and of itself.
You can't really cheat in a single player game; you can only experience it differently than originally intended.
Likewise in a multiplayer scenario where all participants have agreed to 'anything goes' rules, you aren't cheating by operating within those bounds.
No victim, no cheat.
Cheating has always generally always been a no-no among those who value honesty and fairness.
This is a pretty vague statement that muddies a lot of lines.
Games are things real people play in their real lives. Cheaters are being dishonest to, and taking advantage of, other real people.
This doesn't have much of anything to do with how behaves within the rules of a game, in the context of that game.
My Elite: Dangerous CMDR may occasionally break disadvantageous rules and agreements, or abandon unprofitable contracts; and many of my D&D characters have been outright villians. Playing a character rather than one's self is an expected part of these game, even if it's not explicitly the goal. Regardless, I, as a player, am generally a stickler for the rules of the games I play, no matter who or what I'm playing.
In a less abstract example, bluffing in poker is part of the game's strategy, and I'm not going to suggest someone is a liar for making use of it.
Cheating exists independently of perceived 'need' and the goal of cheating often has nothing to do with being a 'jerk'...that's just a side effect.
I actually agree with an awful lot of what you say. That being said, 'no victim, no cheat' is not necessarily true (in my mind), I think you might agree, I could be cheating myself?
The other bone of contention I would raise, is that of autopilot. This time last year, any form of autopilot was a no-no. Suddenly, FDev bring out their own automation saying it's all good and legal. Many of us, could have written that without FDev's help but we'd have been accused of cheating. Elite Dangerous is and by it's nature more a sim than a game. There is no winning, so what'd left is whatever you the 'player' decide to do. The only real multiplayer 'winning' is the BGS. And even then that is tenuous to the extreme. If we remove the BGS, what have we? A simulator. There is no cheating in a simulator.
This is not to negate the absolute definite cheat that is modifying memory etc. There are (in my mind) no two ways about it.
I have to admit, that to me, Elite is nothing more than a Sim. A really good one too. I do nothing intentional with the BGS, and would be quite happy for it to be removed. But that's me, and I may be alone or there may be others that feel the same way. The real problem I have is FDev's willy nilly approach to everything. Automation is bad, but you can you automation software. What kind of legal mumbo jumbo is that? Bottom line is; Until I hear differently, VA is legal and I'll use it any way I can.
There's sometimes a bit of that going on.
There was a bit of a flap on reddit when the HCS Voice Packs folks put in some code that would shut down another third party music app. It's been tidied up now, but that thing where you have other developers leveraging off the back of some big IP. I dunno the ethics can get a bit blurry I guess.
There's a whole community doing free stuff in python, and there's others doing commercial stuff with some sort of license or permission from frontier. Some are mods here. RoA have an app that looks up the INARA profile of whoever they have targeted and presents it as a screen overlay. Way cool, I would like to use it, but it also hooks into their KOS list, and uh, I have my own KOS list thanks.
The stuff that comes out of the third party development for Elite is so amazing.
It's hardly surprising that some folks have worked out the hacks and cheats.
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ToS do not trump laws, so if (and I'm only saying if) what they say with what GDPR says then they're unenforceable. To take your gas and electricity meter example the energy company can't demand access to your house whenever they feel like it to get at the meters. You also can't waive rights, e.g. an employer can't use the terms of a contract to get around paying the minimum wage. In short it's never that simple, these sorts of things keep the legal profession very nicely well off.
Sounds like cheating to me, and has always been called such. It just doesn't really matter because you're not cheating anyone else.
Depends if that's co-operative or not. If it's co-operative it's no different from single player cheating (i.e. it is but so what), if it's PvP then it's a game where everyone is playing with the rules they've agreed, so isn't. Since neither of those cases matter to anyone in the slightest though it's just quibbling about semantics.
In single player games, I always called it "cheating" too.
We used to play a lot of Lan "quake 2", and sometimes, everyone agreed to a "cheat death-match". We didn't use god modes or no clipping, but everything else was on, from invisible skins to overpowered mods. I remember one, called "total destruction", that even had a nuke launcher- we fired and had to run the hell away as fast as possible. The explosion area was ginourmous, and everything would become white for a while. Then there was the cluster grenades, the laser trip wires, the BFG rocket launcher, the eradicator machine-gun/shotgun hybrid. It was simply nuts. XD
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