Cheating in Elite Dangerous

[Midian Cabal]

And yet it might be just me, but even despite the pound loosing value lately and £4M being less than £22M, I would at any time be ready to accept the £4M. Anybody who's willing to give them to me, please?

If I'd want to be sarcastic, I'd say that those £4M obviously stink to FD, judging by the way they treat their webstore and by their offer there.
Personally I'd like to spend more on cosmetics, but everything is so meh.

I just brought the facts to put things into perspective, because Tikanderoga assumed that game extras are important for FD's business. It's a logical conclusion, when you don't know the actual numbers.

 

[OldSchoolPlayer]

I sense a disturbance in the force...

 

[Gemini2011]

I agree with your final assessment, however it doesn't matter how much easier it is now than in the past. If there was a new weapon or ship mod that made your ship 20% stronger, faster, cooler than it is now, even if you're fully engineered and have every other buff you can muster within EULA rules, many many players would fly to the other side of the galaxy to get it, because they want more. The asymptotic curve toward invincible bolt of lighting gets closer and closer as time passes. The cheat just closes that gap. They don't cheat to make it easier to win. They cheat to make it effortless, to not worry about losing at all, to crush their enemies, to see their enemies driven before them and hear the lamentation of their women.

Thank you for your response. I think by allowing this type of stuff to go on unchecked or light handed, will result in players exiting the game. This is not closing the gap, this is cheating period. They are hacking into the game engine and tweaking to there liking with a downloaded 3rd party program. Most of the people doing this do not have the code skill level to do this sort of thing, so they just down load a app. Their pretty spineless people in my opinion. Probably look for the easy way out of everything in life too.

But you know what I'm not going to fight about it, I been playing for I think 4 years...I think, I seen allot of the game anyway. Its not up to me, its up to frontier. Its there choice how they want to deal with them. There's other games to play. So if they want the end of Elite Dangerous to be the time were there game is infested with hack players, that's on them. Back playing GTA I can tell you, they ruin everyone fun. That's the point, its a form of trolling too.

Theres opal and ice ring deep core mining to make credits hand over fist, like 100 mil a hour. Passengers missions credits. There's tech brokers, guardian tech and of course engineering. Exploring is probably 2 3rds faster since Dec 18 update. There even safe haven system for new players now. They make it better and easier, steam lined the UI. What to people do...….down load hack aps....for Christ sakes...

I saw this issue mentioned on a discord, I really didn't think that much of it at 1st. Until I decided to go AX hunting...….NOT one system under attack....hmmm wonder why that is? Just speculating, but could it be there using it for AX, justifying it in there own mind there some how saving the galaxy? If that's the case, there still ruining other peoples games. I would rather see it ended by fact humanity was just not capable of defeating the thargoids and at the end of the story be that we lost. Then selfish self centered hackers determining it. Yes that right I would rather see the Thargiods win.

 

[Tikanderoga]

Here we go again... In FY 2018 FD's total revenue from ED was £22M and only £4M were from game extras.
The biggest source of revenue are game copies.

So rough extrapolation would mean that they sold 1.1 million copies of ED at 20£ a pop. If only there were that many players in game at any given time. Or even 5% would mean 55000 players. Looking at the chart here:

Elite Dangerous - Steam Charts

An ongoing analysis of Steam's player numbers, seeing what's been played the most.

steamcharts.com

We are bearly cracking the 10k players, meaning a 1% of players who purchased a copy in 2018 are actually playing the game. And that number doesn't take into account players who purchased the game prior to 2018, making the represented percentage even lower.
That's a bit of sad statement if you think about it.

they ruin everyone fun

Really? Not everyone thinks it's fun to repeat the same task over and over again. Some people just want to cut out the grind and tediousness of it and skip to the fun part.

 

[Riverside]

So rough extrapolation would mean that they sold 1.1 million copies of ED at 20£ a pop. If only there were that many players in game at any given time. Or even 5% would mean 55000 players. Looking at the chart here:

Elite Dangerous - Steam Charts

An ongoing analysis of Steam's player numbers, seeing what's been played the most.

steamcharts.com

We are bearly cracking the 10k players, meaning a 1% of players who purchased a copy in 2018 are actually playing the game. And that number doesn't take into account players who purchased the game prior to 2018, making the represented percentage even lower.
That's a bit of sad statement if you think about it.


Really? Not everyone thinks it's fun to repeat the same task over and over again. Some people just want to cut out the grind and tediousness of it and skip to the fun part.

Steam chart figures show concurrent players - the number of players currently playing at that time.

So if we assume each player plays for say 2hrs per day we can multiply any given figure by 12 to get an approximation of the total playerbase. Probably that's a pessimistic figure but then Steam players aren't all players so the estimate is very rough anyway

Arguably the trends are indicative of the overall playerbase.

 

[Gemini2011]

Really? Not everyone thinks it's fun to repeat the same task over and over again. Some people just want to cut out the grind and tediousness of it and skip to the fun part.

Grinding? If you want to cut the grinding done do research. There's plenty of videos with great players and plenty of resources online resources to cut down on the time it takes. This is a space simulator period, space travel is not easy. Probably even a 1000 years from now. If you just want everything to be easy in regards to collecting mats, your playing the wrong game with all do respect, you just are. And BTW I just got done engineering a ship and toping off on guardian tech. It really is not that bad currently. But if the answer is I don't like having to do a little research to get engineering done, or get (RARE ALIEN weapons....which BTW I think are kinda easy to get), and then go out and download a hack app. Your screwing over the rest of us, just leave. Go play something easier.

When I get tired of ED, say after deep space exploration or just doing allot of things....I take a break. Its not a competition most my friends I talk to on discord I see in game every blue moon. There is 400 billion stars in the milky way. So yes things get repetitive, but you miss the point. Its space its vast, and yes some of it is a black void and yes sometimes even boring. ED does amazing job capturing that lol If you actually love the game, take a breather when your burned out and come back later...I have done it many times the pas t few years. I feel refreshed and interested after say taking a break waiting to see what's next.

 

[Nugstar]

Since Frontier makes most of their sales in game copies, and cheaters and/or modders will always exist in some form, and many complain cheaters and/or modders affect the game and/or BGS, the solution may be as simple as providing a second edition of Elite.

A moddable version (generating more sales) in addition to the one we now have. The two versions play on different servers and are completely isolated from each other.

You could have two copies of the same game, with two separate Frontier Accounts on different Frontier server run galaxies and BGS.

Gankers, bots, scripts, trainers and cheaters in one Frontier galaxy in a version designed for that purpose. (That, may be entertaining to watch!)

Those opposed to that type of Elite have this original version, on different servers, without those features, playing the way the game was originally designed, with a BGS unaffected by those features.

If your caught cheating in the original version, your game gets converted to the moddable version and your moved to those servers.

Now, everyone is happy. It's a win for Frontier. It's a win for those who want the original design. It's a win for those who want to mod and cheat.

Everyone gets what they want and the community is happy.

If it's just sales and game copies that matter, this is a perfect solution for all.

o7.....

Why are gankers moved? Ganking isn't cheating (I'm not a ganker, just saying).

 

[WinterKing2112]

WTH with all the cheat threads all of a sudden, it's like an orchestrated campaign.

?

 

[Gemini2011]

Why are gankers moved? Ganking isn't cheating (I'm not a ganker, just saying).

Ganking….well...
It is a practice done by pirates yes. is it nice no. But they are operating with in mechanics of the game. I feel they have there place indeed. And a important place. Not all players chose to play nice, and some chose to be ...well space criminals....I say let them. There has to be that there. Players have a choice of how he or she wants to play. If they chose to be a ganking pirate, so let them. But they also will face the response of other players. They can also face other players that also play with in mechanics of the game that are against such things. Also I think gankers make it more interesting out there. I have been attacked a few times by them...mostly escaped. I don't mind players wanting to role as vilans so long as they do it with in mechanics of the game, they have a role. So no not a argument here. Not a reason to HACK.

 

[Gemini2011]

I got attacked before doing power play, so what. Its the other players job to guard there respective zones. Also yes there is pirates in game. They can, I think they have every right to keep doing it. Now there is safe zones for newer players. They can chose if they want to go open, private or solo. If they chose to go open, understand many players are very friendly but eng zones and powerplay areas tend to have winged players, that yes will jump you.

So FDev has been more then fair. You can chose if you want to play in open. More then most games.

 

[EdzUp]

Gameplay wise cheating is always wrong in a MMO, to stop the video proof problem just have ED check for third party cheat tools and ram hackers once a minute or so. If they are found it flags on the main server for investigation and closes ED with a "Cheat program detected" or a more entertaining one would be turn off damage for everyone and watch them burn. I would name and shame them as well but I'm wondering the reasoning behind this is because nobody has been banned yet?

Programs like RamHack have no place in MMOs.

 

[Midian Cabal]

So rough extrapolation would mean that they sold 1.1 million copies of ED at 20£ a pop. If only there were that many players in game at any given time. Or even 5% would mean 55000 players. Looking at the chart here:

Elite Dangerous - Steam Charts

An ongoing analysis of Steam's player numbers, seeing what's been played the most.

steamcharts.com

We are bearly cracking the 10k players, meaning a 1% of players who purchased a copy in 2018 are actually playing the game. And that number doesn't take into account players who purchased the game prior to 2018, making the represented percentage even lower.
That's a bit of sad statement if you think about it.

They sold around 3 million copies on all platforms, and yes, customer retention is not one of their fortes. They are aware of the problem (you don't to be Sherlock to see it), that's why they're trying to make the game easier for new players.

 

[Tikanderoga]

Grinding? If you want to cut the grinding done do research. There's plenty of videos with great players and plenty of resources online resources to cut down on the time it takes. This is a space simulator period, space travel is not easy. Probably even a 1000 years from now. If you just want everything to be easy in regards to collecting mats, your playing the wrong game with all do respect, you just are. And BTW I just got done engineering a ship and toping off on guardian tech. It really is not that bad currently. But if the answer is I don't like having to do a little research to get engineering done, or get (RARE ALIEN weapons....which BTW I think are kinda easy to get), and then go out and download a hack app. Your screwing over the rest of us, just leave. Go play something easier.

When I get tired of ED, say after deep space exploration or just doing allot of things....I take a break. Its not a competition most my friends I talk to on discord I see in game every blue moon. There is 400 billion stars in the milky way. So yes things get repetitive, but you miss the point. Its space its vast, and yes some of it is a black void and yes sometimes even boring. ED does amazing job capturing that lol If you actually love the game, take a breather when your burned out and come back later...I have done it many times the pas t few years. I feel refreshed and interested after say taking a break waiting to see what's next.

I got over 2000 hours on this game, read up plenty of it, but no matter how you twist and turn it - it remains very grindy.
Mining has been made quite enjoyable since December (only deep core, the rest I don't bother with) but the travel part really is just tedious. So why not put in Fast travel (drop at station) for those who want it, and the other can still do their journey and wait their 90 minutes if they want to go to Hutton or 45 mins to Smeaton. Both parties get what they want and the game is less of a time waster.

They sold around 3 million copies on all platforms, and yes, customer retention is not one of their fortes. They are aware of the problem (you don't to be Sherlock to see it), that's why they're trying to make the game easier for new players.

Yes, making is easier for new players, but what's the point of attracting new players if old ones are leaving in droves after a new patch unearthed another plethora of bugs and glitches?
Even weirder: the fun glitches get fixed almost instantly, if they are able to make money, like the multiple chunks from the mining bug. That got fixed within 2 weeks (only because it was Xmas and New year in between). The rest of bugs and "features" didn't get any love until somewhat later, leaving quite a sour taste in the player base's mouth.

Attracting new players with an established reputation gets even harder if the reputation veers towards the "bug infested half baked waiting simulator/grind fest". I have friends who really want to love this game. But some of the game loops are too much of a deterrent. They love the graphics and the view, the space stations... and that's pretty much where the game then ends for them.

 

[Midian Cabal]

I got over 2000 hours on this game, read up plenty of it, but no matter how you twist and turn it - it remains very grindy.
Mining has been made quite enjoyable since December (only deep core, the rest I don't bother with) but the travel part really is just tedious. So why not put in Fast travel (drop at station) for those who want it, and the other can still do their journey and wait their 90 minutes if they want to go to Hutton or 45 mins to Smeaton. Both parties get what they want and the game is less of a time waster.


Yes, making is easier for new players, but what's the point of attracting new players if old ones are leaving in droves after a new patch unearthed another plethora of bugs and glitches?
Even weirder: the fun glitches get fixed almost instantly, if they are able to make money, like the multiple chunks from the mining bug. That got fixed within 2 weeks (only because it was Xmas and New year in between). The rest of bugs and "features" didn't get any love until somewhat later, leaving quite a sour taste in the player base's mouth.

Attracting new players with an established reputation gets even harder if the reputation veers towards the "bug infested half baked waiting simulator/grind fest". I have friends who really want to love this game. But some of the game loops are too much of a deterrent. They love the graphics and the view, the space stations... and that's pretty much where the game then ends for them.

Please remember that FD is a publicly traded company that is first and foremost responsible to its shareholders. If their current business model (having 1-2 releases each year with regular price drops to attract new players) generates revenue and pleases the shareholders, nothing will change. Even if ED completely dies because of the lack of players, they'll still have 4-6 other revenue generators.

 

[Gemini2011]

I got over 2000 hours on this game, read up plenty of it, but no matter how you twist and turn it - it remains very grindy.
Mining has been made quite enjoyable since December (only deep core, the rest I don't bother with) but the travel part really is just tedious. So why not put in Fast travel (drop at station) for those who want it, and the other can still do their journey and wait their 90 minutes if they want to go to Hutton or 45 mins to Smeaton. Both parties get what they want and the game is less of a time waster.

So you understand what I mean then. Also I completely agree the game has improved very much so since Dec. I can find common ground here that yes they should make some of the tasks a little less grindy. Kind of like what they did with deep core mining. Or adding night vision, which BTW I got a kick out of using on a guardian site. Don't want to get too off topic but I mined so long a few weeks ago that I orbited around too the dark side of the planet...Turned on night vision...was really cool to be able to do that. So Fdev has added neat stuff. Is it taking a while yes, maybe taking longer then some of us will like. I understand some tasks are kind of well boring.

But I don't think it at all excuses players to us hack apps. Those sorts of things destroy the multiplayer gaming exp. On GTA online there was a period were hackers would completely wreck servers. Literally ruin everyone's fun. There were few Santa Claus ones that would drop money on people. Regardless it ruined the game basically, causing players to leave and never return. Rock Star took extreme measures to solve the problem. Its still present, but not like it once was. To be honest GTA online seems tainted to me after all that. So I think FDev needs to get a handle on this fast, before it gets out of control. Its bad for business too. I do not want to see that happen to ED.

 

[LynxAwakening]

@Gemini every public lobby has a hacker in GTA:O nowadays, but at least i can customize my vehicles without a paywall!

maybe the hackers are the only ones treating this game the way it deserves? i wouldn't be surprised if the anonymous organization didn't step in for the crime of pay-walling demo grade cosmetics after being crowd funded. it should say Overwhelmingly Positive on steam!!! but instead of enabling the one creative aspect of the game they crippled it.

it's only a matter of time until entire galaxy says "discovered by L337 H4X0R"

 

[Enderby]

Cheaters in ed thats a sad past time

Pity those fools

 

[Tikanderoga]

Even if ED completely dies because of the lack of players, they'll still have 4-6 other revenue generators.

Of course. But I highly doubt that is something FDev will allow to happen. Sure a newly sold game is money in pocket, even better if they spend money on cosmetics. But a player that fires up the game for the first time will not be rushing to the cosmetic shop and spend 50 bucks on paint jobs and COVAS.
I remember for me it was a few months in until I finally purchased my first paint job for my T6. I skipped the first Xmas special skin sale all together thinking "I'll never spend a single cent on that". Well, kinda wish I did, as I did like some of them.

Of course, some of the cheaters will never bother with learning how to fly - just enable super damage and mega shields and be done with it. Some of the other features like drop at station and inifite jump range do make an appealing point though. Skip the grind and play the parts you actually enjoy playing.

 

[Thundar_]

I apologise in advance if the following has been raised before (I've not read all 52 pages of this thread - sorry).

In light of the recent Galnet story about a ship being stolen from a starport, I was thinking that this may be an opportunity for FD to implement an "I am not a Robot" check (as found on many websites) to try to limit some of the 'cheating'.

Under the guise of a newly implemented galaxy-wide security systen designed to provide increased protection against your ship being stolen, the devs may be able to come up with a way to reduce the number of cheat bots etc.

I know the idea has many flaws, not least of which being that it risks breaking the imersion of the game, but if cheating is as big a deal as recent discussions suggest, then maybe something needs to be done.

For the record, I'm a PS4 Cmdr, so cheats may or may not be impacting my Elite experience. To be honest, I've not noticed anything to indicate cheating (other than the many articles and Youtube videos on the topic).

Fly safely Commanders.

 

[Schmack]

Your ship cannot be stolen if you cannot get out of it. Right now you cannot get out of it. When you do, it disappears. You'd have to get out of your ship to steal another one.

Narrative, sure, but nah. The capcha or whatever it's called is punishment to the 99.999% of players who aren't cheating (wishful percentage I'm sure). To minimize the effects of hacks, you don't impose inconvenient checks on everyone as that does just the opposite of what you're trying to accomplish.

Instead, just change the code enough at regular intervals to stay ahead of it, like most other "still viable" video games.