Clipper deceptively horrible at combat; false advertising

taking the combat tactics I was using with my krait mkII, (heavy build, ram, frags, hammers,) I discovered the clipper: despite one less 3-class hardpoint, it was ranked with higher maneuverability ('5' on fandom over krait's '3',) and greater speed. I checked around other ship agility lists, and despite some draw backs compared to the krait, I thought it had just enough of the right advantages that it might improve my tactics.

I was dead wrong. Despite being described as having superior agility (in SOME respects,) it handles HORRIBLE. The ramming damage is relatively negligible even with the heaviest build and the two 2-class hardpoints are so far apart, if you put hammers on them they can't both hit the target. (rails would be absolutely necessary for it,) And anyways, I find it even more difficult to stay close to the enemy because ... is it a much slower acceleration speed compared to the krait???

Also, despite having a class-7 optional module slot (over the krait's top 6,) it's shields are worse. and it's hull integrity is severely lacking.

But what really disappoints me is the poorer handling performance, which seemed it's selling point.

This thing, like the krait, is described as 'multi-purpose', but it isn't. The only thing I imagine I could really do successfully with it is use it's class-7 internal module for a cargo rack -- and upon interdiction speed away from aggressors. In other words, it succeeds as little more than a super fancy, super fast type-6.

It should either be given faster acceleration speed and have it's 2 medium hardpoints moved to under the cockpit (instead of the worst place possible,) or be re-classed from 'multi-purpose' to freight. My actual problem lies in the fact that I think it is sold on the premise of false advertising, ...and the sheer amount of work and grind to unlock it and engineer it is ridiculous.

needless to say, my dreams of maneuvering under the belly of a corvette, ramming it and pumping it full of ammunition... are dashed on the rocks.

finally, I think it would be good for meta to have a ship like the one I am asking for. Instead of making something useless that no one will use.
 
Do not trust the fandom. Elite Dangerous is full of people who rely on "Community wisdom" and refuse to apply mathematics to their arguments when it comes to discussing ship capabilities and engineering. I still see Phasing Weapons being recommended. If you're looking for combat mediums, your options (in no particular order) are Alliance Chieftain, Krait MkII, the Mamba, and the FDL. If you want something that feels like a vulture, try the Chieftain.
 
You really have to incorporate playstyle into your assessment of a ship.

The Clipper is great at Zoom and Boom, and has the juice to escape easily, or use reverski easily. It's only 22 million.

The Krait MK II with an SLF 3 class 3 HPs, 2 class 2 HPs is more than twice the cost. It isn't even in the same class.

The Krait Phantom is 37 million. Also substantially more pricey.

If you FA off the Clipper while moving at a reasonable rate, it's a ballerina.

It is not a close in turn fighter.

Try a more ranged build, and gimballed or even turreted LR weapons on the nacelles in PVE. Make sure you are G5 DD with Drag Drive or Drive Distributors secondary.
 
no, the clipper is not a 'ballerina' with FA off (in respect to competition.) Thruster acceleration in the clipper is dismal, it cannot 'dance'.
I should get mad at you for re-iterating the mistake I literally just described and spent 20 hours grinding for.

I considered your theory that it's reverse + long distance tactics would be ideal ... but I think it's hardpoint divergence is too great, you would have to gimbal the medium points, which moderately defeats a sniper build.
 
The Clipper has a slot awaiting a Huge Hardpoint on its roof.
Just need Gutamaya to give the go-ahead and update it.

I can but dream.
 
wait.

I know what it would be good for.

in open PP, if you have to get cargo past an embargo and the zone is hot.

then it would be great and have immense functionality.
 
I kind of dont agree that its terrible but admit to not really using it for heavy duty combat. It drifts but it has very good rotationals. Im more of a federal ship enthusiast these days.
 
no, the clipper is not a 'ballerina' with FA off (in respect to competition.) Thruster acceleration in the clipper is dismal, it cannot 'dance'.
I should get mad at you for re-iterating the mistake I literally just described and spent 20 hours grinding for.

I considered your theory that it's reverse + long distance tactics would be ideal ... but I think it's hardpoint divergence is too great, you would have to gimbal the medium points, which moderately defeats a sniper build.
There are tons of vids of pvp aces tearing it up with the Clipper. Send me a friend request in game, I'll meet you in a haz res and show you what it can do.

It makes a great NPC pirate ship too.

I personally favor the Krait II, but I adore my Clipper.
 
There are tons of vids of pvp aces tearing it up with the Clipper. Send me a friend request in game, I'll meet you in a haz res and show you what it can do.

It makes a great NPC pirate ship too.

I personally favor the Krait II, but I adore my Clipper.

I met a guy in Boran that would likely school the OP on how useless it is. Never could kill that dude. And yeah, it does just fine maneuvering. Every time my firing arc was back on it he was around and on his way back. It was too fast for my alliance ship to grab it's belt so it got to zoom and pepper me with shot constantly.

I love the Clipper and it is fantastic in that blockade-runner role mentioned. "Run, run fast as you can". Anything that's got the oomph to kill it generally has to have everything in the ENG just to fall away somewhat more slowly.
 
I recently got a Cutter ... and got mildly excited by the hardpoint locations which seemed rather good with the 2xL and 1xH above below the cockpit plus 2xM relatively aligned ... could just gimbal the other two ...

But it handles like a multi-storey carpark.

So, I started wondering if a Clipper would be better for combat but the hardpoint positions SUCK on that ... it’s like Gutamaya are deliberately trolling us ...
 
Cutter has to be flown a certain way. PIPs and FA off help turn her around and LR weapons play into it. You can't bully it into things, you gotta roll with the drift. LR rails are always fun. The Clipper... it's niche. Certainly not anything meta but for some activities it's actually really good. The HP placement is atrocious so you have to take it into account. L pad size is it's WORST feature. It should have a nice place at the M table instead it, like the Orca are orphan L ships.
 
taking the combat tactics I was using with my krait mkII, (heavy build, ram, frags, hammers,) I discovered the clipper: despite one less 3-class hardpoint, it was ranked with higher maneuverability ('5' on fandom over krait's '3',) and greater speed. I checked around other ship agility lists, and despite some draw backs compared to the krait, I thought it had just enough of the right advantages that it might improve my tactics.

I was dead wrong. Despite being described as having superior agility (in SOME respects,) it handles HORRIBLE. The ramming damage is relatively negligible even with the heaviest build and the two 2-class hardpoints are so far apart, if you put hammers on them they can't both hit the target. (rails would be absolutely necessary for it,) And anyways, I find it even more difficult to stay close to the enemy because ... is it a much slower acceleration speed compared to the krait???

Also, despite having a class-7 optional module slot (over the krait's top 6,) it's shields are worse. and it's hull integrity is severely lacking.

But what really disappoints me is the poorer handling performance, which seemed it's selling point.

This thing, like the krait, is described as 'multi-purpose', but it isn't. The only thing I imagine I could really do successfully with it is use it's class-7 internal module for a cargo rack -- and upon interdiction speed away from aggressors. In other words, it succeeds as little more than a super fancy, super fast type-6.

It should either be given faster acceleration speed and have it's 2 medium hardpoints moved to under the cockpit (instead of the worst place possible,) or be re-classed from 'multi-purpose' to freight. My actual problem lies in the fact that I think it is sold on the premise of false advertising, ...and the sheer amount of work and grind to unlock it and engineer it is ridiculous.

needless to say, my dreams of maneuvering under the belly of a corvette, ramming it and pumping it full of ammunition... are dashed on the rocks.

finally, I think it would be good for meta to have a ship like the one I am asking for. Instead of making something useless that no one will use.

People describe various ships based on their ability to fly those ships.
And those abilities could be very very different than yours

So why don't you Go in San Tu, eventually dock in solo at Chomsky Terminal
Then switch to open and tell the locals you want to try your hand at PVP and ask them if they have a Clipper combat ready.

Or you can arrange that on Discord - pretty sure there is one for San Tu - and it may be easier to get some arranged fights.

You'd be surprised what people can do with certain ships.
Some like Gunships, some Clippers, some Kraits and i'm not even talking about the meta FDL.
 
My Clipper was bad at combat. So were my Chieftain and Vulture. My Phantom does alright though.

As for the Clipper not turning, I don't know what you're smoking. Maybe if you're talking about the minute you bought it. But I have yet to fly a ship that was worth anything straight out of the box. Mine is A-rated and mildly engineered, it wiggles. No, it's not a Vulture. But show me another ship that can carry 200t that outmanuevers the Clipper.
 
While the Clipper has decent pitch and yaw rate, its lateral thrusters are so weak that changing direction and braking is difficult (not as bad as the Cutter, but still). Basically, it drifts a lot and that's what people mean when they say "it can't turn". But staying on target isn't too difficult. Staying close to it however is another story.
 
Strange. My clipper flys like a dream in supercruise and real space. It's not even close to the best combat ship, but it's plenty capable.
 
Fly the Clipper like you are a bully. Its price, cavernous hull, speed, ramming potential are all fantastic- in short its born to pirate and be bad. Stop flying it like a Corvette and the thing is fantastic.

Plus, the boost sound...BWWWWWWWWWWoooooooooooooooooooooooooooKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKCCHHHHHHHHHHHaaaaaaaaaaaaa
 
Remember that the Clipper is a large sized ship so handles as such. For some reason you see a lot used by NPCs in RES sites but you can see that even they have trouble turning the thing.
 
taking the combat tactics I was using with my krait mkII, (heavy build, ram, frags, hammers,) I discovered the clipper: despite one less 3-class hardpoint, it was ranked with higher maneuverability ('5' on fandom over krait's '3',) and greater speed. I checked around other ship agility lists, and despite some draw backs compared to the krait, I thought it had just enough of the right advantages that it might improve my tactics.

I was dead wrong. Despite being described as having superior agility (in SOME respects,) it handles HORRIBLE. The ramming damage is relatively negligible even with the heaviest build and the two 2-class hardpoints are so far apart, if you put hammers on them they can't both hit the target. (rails would be absolutely necessary for it,) And anyways, I find it even more difficult to stay close to the enemy because ... is it a much slower acceleration speed compared to the krait???

Also, despite having a class-7 optional module slot (over the krait's top 6,) it's shields are worse. and it's hull integrity is severely lacking.

But what really disappoints me is the poorer handling performance, which seemed it's selling point.

This thing, like the krait, is described as 'multi-purpose', but it isn't. The only thing I imagine I could really do successfully with it is use it's class-7 internal module for a cargo rack -- and upon interdiction speed away from aggressors. In other words, it succeeds as little more than a super fancy, super fast type-6.

It should either be given faster acceleration speed and have it's 2 medium hardpoints moved to under the cockpit (instead of the worst place possible,) or be re-classed from 'multi-purpose' to freight. My actual problem lies in the fact that I think it is sold on the premise of false advertising, ...and the sheer amount of work and grind to unlock it and engineer it is ridiculous.

needless to say, my dreams of maneuvering under the belly of a corvette, ramming it and pumping it full of ammunition... are dashed on the rocks.

finally, I think it would be good for meta to have a ship like the one I am asking for. Instead of making something useless that no one will use.
Alex Amos says hi.
No ship can fix pilot skill. Clipper with frags or multis is both fun and not the worst. Take that as you will.
 
no, the clipper is not a 'ballerina' with FA off (in respect to competition.) Thruster acceleration in the clipper is dismal, it cannot 'dance'.
I should get mad at you for re-iterating the mistake I literally just described and spent 20 hours grinding for.

I considered your theory that it's reverse + long distance tactics would be ideal ... but I think it's hardpoint divergence is too great, you would have to gimbal the medium points, which moderately defeats a sniper build.
Alright here's what I think.
1.) It is, you're just flying it wrong. You can't crutch on lats like you would on most ships, the Clipper needs to yaw, and roll.
2.) The clipper feels weight a LOT more than most other combat ships. If you want a good build, you cant go full on "Hurr durr reactive, hurr durr prismo" that you could on other ships like a corvette.
3.) Clipper is not a reverski ship, and reverski is a bad and boring tactic, not to mention the easy way to get every PvPer to both hate you and ignore you because it means you're not a threat.
4.) Just give up using meta weapons, alright? The clipper isn't an fdl so stop trying to make it one. You'll have less health pool, be a bigger target, with less firepower, in exchange for speed, agility, and flexibility.
 
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