Coaster Smoothness

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Wanting the coaster builder to at least function like it should does not equal wanting it to be as complex as No Limits.
Who says it doesn't function like it should today? The only one that can answer this statement is Frontier themselves. Just because it doesn't function the way you want it to, doesn't mean it is broken. As I mentioned before, this does not mean that any of us don't want to see improvements/changes etc. for this tool or any other aspect of the game.
 
Frontier has listened more to its player base and made changes in their development plan than most other companies.
Well, you say that but half walls and smooth coasters still aren't a thing (can a mod edit his 4 seperate replies together please?)

You sound like me 2 years ago when I use to defend the game, saying "this isn't a successor, you shouldn't base it on RCT1-3" but certain things still haven't been added to the game, the rides people asked for were added to a DLC, a certain theme people asked for was added to a set based around some shops and not a full fleshed out theme, and you're the type of people that runs in to defend the game because you are "just not having that" and "I'm not having people talk that way about my beloved Frontier" I'm like... over the whole excitement and think they're getting a bit greedy, and you're more than welcome to say they listen to the community because they fix bugs and added a few little things here and there that people have asked for, but ya, no thanks. It's people like you that are the reason that things probably don't get sorted/fixed/added to the game. If it makes the game better, for everybody as a whole, then whats the problem?

Back on topic, Frontier, please fix coasters/or the camera.
 
*snip*
...It's people like you that are the reason that things probably don't get sorted/fixed/added to the game. If it makes the game better, for everybody as a whole, then whats the problem?

Back on topic, Frontier, please fix coasters/or the camera.
You seriously think Frontier reads the boards and goes, "Oh look people defended and said nice things to us, we don't need to fix/add this thing people wanted then!"

[uhh]

We already have a pretty decent list of things the community wanted that they added to the game since Alpha. We don't get everything we want because it's more like, "We have a huge list of things people want us to do but we also have our own list of priorities based on what we can and cannot accomplish depending on the time and resources at our disposal"
 
You seriously think Frontier reads the boards and goes, "Oh look people defended and said nice things to us, we don't need to fix/add this thing people wanted then!"

[uhh]

We already have a pretty decent list of things the community wanted that they added to the game since Alpha. We don't get everything we want because it's more like, "We have a huge list of things people want us to do but we also have our own list of priorities based on what we can and cannot accomplish depending on the time and resources at our disposal"
What I'd like to think is that developers browse the forum, see these things requested from the alpha days (.i.e smooth coasters, half walls) and think to themselves "Right, we need to get that in game" instead of releasing tables/benches a year and a half later, or security a year and a half later y'know?

But I think you're right, its a priority thing, because they have added a few things into game that people have wanted, It just seems that coasters (though being the title of the game) and certain other things are not a priority, such as the sundial's supports being too close to the swinging arm, I mean why go for realism right? (even though they do all this research, get physics right, even add a real life coaster in) but yeah, I'm sure a lot of people are happy with the sudden camera jolt each time a coaster train gets to a different segment of track.
 
It's people like you that are the reason that things probably don't get sorted/fixed/added to the game. If it makes the game better, for everybody as a whole, then whats the problem?
You seriously think that because people don't say bad things about Frontier and take an "adult approach" to some topics here instead of acting like spoiled millennials (not pointing fingers at anyone specific, a figure of speech) that they will sit back and think that they don't have to keep developing the game? Come on.

What I'd like to think is that developers browse the forum, see these things requested from the alpha days (.i.e smooth coasters, half walls) and think to themselves "Right, we need to get that in game" instead of releasing tables/benches a year and a half later, or security a year and a half later y'know?
To be honest, there are not a ton of threads here about half walls. I know they have been requested, but most likely there are other, for Frontier, more important/pressing items to get done first. Same might be true for smoothness. Maybe they have reached a road block where it currently does not pay dividends to work further on the smoothness. It is certainly miles better now than during the alpha stages. It could also be that Frontier has data that tells them that this is not as huge of an issue among their customers as some people on these forums will make it sound like. Only Frontier can answer that and again, no need to act like the world just ended just because you did not get YOUR wish into the game at this point. It may come tomorrow, it may never come. Life will go on either way.

The fact that people still are this passionate about this game (for good and for bad) just confirms that Frontier has something great with Planet Coaster. Few other games has this active of a community this long after initial release. To blame Frontier for not caring about its customers is just silly. Since you are still here talking about the game (maybe even playing it still?) means that it can't have been that terrible and you probably got you money's worth for the investment or you would have moved on to something else by now. This "issue" didn't start today for the ones that still complain about smoothness.
 
Who says it doesn't function like it should today? The only one that can answer this statement is Frontier themselves. Just because it doesn't function the way you want it to, doesn't mean it is broken. As I mentioned before, this does not mean that any of us don't want to see improvements/changes etc. for this tool or any other aspect of the game.
I do. And so do many others. And it is easy to see why. Currently, the coaster builder misses some essential features for the kind of system Frontier decided to use. Since these features are not in the game, it is impossible for the coaster builder to function like how it should function. This does not mean however, that the coaster builder is 'broken' (even though it clearly is, but that has less to do with the smoothing issue).

It is also very understandable when people say frontier doesn't listen to feedback. Yes, they did add some features that were requested by the community. The things people seem to ask the most about, however, are improvements that make the actual game a better game, and adding extra rides do not improve on that aspect. If you look at the main features of the game, you can point out some obvious issues for each of these features that can really hamper the enjoyment of the game. The coaster builder is frustrating to use because of its lack of essential options. The 3D gizmo is just a broken mess. Now they seem to have reverted it back to its prior state, which is just a little bit less of a broken mess. The menus are all sluggish. The display sequencer UI is very impractical, which makes making even simple shows a tedious task. The interaction between path and terrain is still very wonky. Using TMTK items increases loading times to such an extend, it isn't even worth using it.

Note that for the features that were present at the release of the game, all these issues were already present, and many threads talked about them. And what has Frontier done? Nothing. They don't even acknowledge these issues. Hence people feel like Frontier doesn't listen or care.

Of course, some people have a higher tolerance for bugs. Some people don't mind spending 2 hours placing fences around paths, even though a simple spline-based object placement tool would decrease that process to a few minutes. And yes, some people will not experience the bugs so many other people are complaining about. But that does not mean these issues aren't important or shouldn't be discussed.
 
I just can´t understand this discussion. There are so many people (me included) that are asking for better smoothing options in PlanCo. They give arguments and ideas how to make the game better. This is one of the longest threads on the forum after all.

So what do you naysayers gain from telling us, that there is no need for better smoothing options?
Why would anyone do this?

I don´t care for fireworks and vandals. I don´t like the way hotels and restaurants are implemented.

But I would never post in any thread that these features should not be in the game! People are happy about these things and play with them...good for them.
I´m happy that I can switch them off!

The designers go out of their way to come up with beautiful and almost photo-realistic and true-to-life coasters.
They came up with a fantastic building tool that is super easy to use.
They implemented smoothing tools and "heartlining" simulation.
They apparantly "forgot" to implement continuous roll.

All we are asking for is the option to implement this option for the players who LOVE coasters and PlanCo and who get a kick out of designing and tweaking realistic track transitions in this game and NOT in the lifeless No Limits.

If players don´t want to do this, then don´t use it. But don´t come around and tell people that their ideas and arguments are superflous.
Don´t work against making the game better for players, just because you don´t see the value for yourself.
Well said!
 
The fact that people still are this passionate about this game (for good and for bad) just confirms that Frontier has something great with Planet Coaster.
I have so much respect for this line.

Personally, I haven't touched it "properly" since before Christmas, I was so disappointed with the Worlds Shop Pack that I didn't bother with the Magnificent Rides pack, I had been waiting for asian themeing for so long, so when I went into game to find that there were only 3 japanese scenery pieces, all 3 being part of the shop, I felt let down, one of the Bro Coaster guys even said "It feels more like a pack based around shops" which made me feel better about what I had thought, If each of those themes in the Worlds Shop Pack were fully fleshed out themes, then it'd make me happy, but also another friend has said he's not going to bother with any future DLC's.

I really don't see the point of people coming to these forums inside threads and suggestions just to say "no its fine leave it".
This is pretty much how I feel, I think if it benefits everyone then there's no issue, because there are indeed people who say "no its fine" I've had a heated discussion previously where one guy couldn't see anything wrong with it, and the other saying "well, this was intended because at the dinner where you win dinner with a dev, blah blah blah"


My suggestions (and I messaged Mr. Denney this too) was fixing camera's, because certain trains are set to stay locked to the car (like the spinning coaster) and most of the others following the track, but turn before the car/train turns, the flying coaster can look smooth using the camera facing the train and rotating it to face the track (which can't be done with other coasters because the seats are in the way)
The other suggestion came from the 4m technique, It worked in the way that you're ironing out all the creases of a shirt, and pushing it forward, so I suggested added nothing so we can have a certain amount of track pieces, and then "drag" the slider through the pieces of track we want to smooth out, but I feel like I've said this a lot already so =3= end of post~
 
I have so much respect for this line.

Personally, I haven't touched it "properly" since before Christmas, I was so disappointed with the Worlds Shop Pack that I didn't bother with the Magnificent Rides pack, I had been waiting for asian themeing for so long, so when I went into game to find that there were only 3 japanese scenery pieces, all 3 being part of the shop, I felt let down, one of the Bro Coaster guys even said "It feels more like a pack based around shops" which made me feel better about what I had thought, If each of those themes in the Worlds Shop Pack were fully fleshed out themes, then it'd make me happy, but also another friend has said he's not going to bother with any future DLC's.
What does this has to do with Coaster Smoothness.........

I've seen this piece of text from you a few times already. And everytime I think, yeah it was a pack that contained shops, and as an addition some walls and scenery elements to add to the theme. "It didn't feel complete". But when does, where do you draw the line. When is a pack complete?

It also contained a lot of shops, which was the basic intention of the pack's release,. Food.

Why do you tell us your friend doesn't want to buy these anymore? What's my benefit from having that information?

My suggestions (and I messaged Mr. Denney this too) was fixing camera's, because certain trains are set to stay locked to the car (like the spinning coaster) and most of the others following the track, but turn before the car/train turns, the flying coaster can look smooth using the camera facing the train and rotating it to face the track (which can't be done with other coasters because the seats are in the way)
The other suggestion came from the 4m technique, It worked in the way that you're ironing out all the creases of a shirt, and pushing it forward, so I suggested added nothing so we can have a certain amount of track pieces, and then "drag" the slider through the pieces of track we want to smooth out, but I feel like I've said this a lot already so =3= end of post~
The 4 mtr technique does not iron out creases like with a shirt, it just moves them closer to each other which makes it look like the camera has an seizure. Seriously, how can someone say that functions better?

2 long pieces of track, that combined together exceed 90* banking gives a smoother experience, than 20 short (4mtr) pieces of track, where each piece banks a little further.

I still feel, if Frontier could make us able to bank beyond 90* and further, probably wouldn't be having this discussion (or about other stuff we don't like),.
 
For all the people complaining saying its fine as its not a no limits and the coaster builder is acceptable.

One of the biggest draws to this genre of games is building coasters so why shouldnt we have a good coaster builder.

Enough people complained about the path system...but this is not path simulator so why was this ever an issue.

its just a poor defence.

Dont get me wrong frontier have done a good job with PC but the more I play the less its the game we were all hoping it to be when it was announced.

[wacky][wacky]
 
For all the people complaining saying its fine as its not a no limits and the coaster builder is acceptable.

One of the biggest draws to this genre of games is building coasters so why shouldnt we have a good coaster builder.

Enough people complained about the path system...but this is not path simulator so why was this ever an issue.

its just a poor defence.

Dont get me wrong frontier have done a good job with PC but the more I play the less its the game we were all hoping it to be when it was announced.

[wacky][wacky]
And what game where we ALL hoping for?

To me, the game is as I envisioned it upon/before release.
 
I'm 50/50 at this point. We know Frontier have been working on this as some more smoothing options came out recently. The height etc.

Having said that they have been silent about this issue, I think Bo mentioned it once in a stream and now it feels like "if we don't mention it it'll go away".

Id love to have a continous roll and for the smoothing not to wipe out my heartlines after spending time getting the look right. If they can't do anything then i would prefer them to come out and say "we have looked at it and it is something we cannot do" then that would be fair we would know that they have at least tried. I think it's the silence that is making it a bigger issue IMO
 
I don't think I have seen anyone saying that they want Frontier to stop working on improving any aspect f the game,including smoothing. If I have missed that, please point me to a post saying so. What a lot of people are saying is that calling the game unplayable because of how the smoothing is right now is ludicrous. That doesn't mean that more work on the tools can't be done. Please learn the differences between the two.
1. I never said the game was unplayable. Why bring this up in a rather condescending tone in response to my reasonable post?

2. There have been numerous cases in this very thread, where players were debating better smooting options only to be confronted by others who claimed that this was not needed. Just read through the 24 pages.

3. Arguments that "Planet Coaster was not intended to....*insert whatever*" don´t hold much water from anyone but the people who actually designed the game.
The designers have given so much care for a very realistic depiction of real life coaster models and rides (well, in most cases), that one could say that they intended to have a very realistic game. So it´s only understandable that people suggest better track transitions for their designs.

See, there are some fantastically rendered flat-rides which only fall flat (duh!) in their animation (e.g. Pathos). I´d argue that this is pretty much an oversight from the animators, and I can understand that this is such a marginal complaint, that I can fully understand that they don´t care to change it.
But 24 pages (minus the fluff) of people having reasonable arguments what could be should not be marginalized.
The fact that they recently tweaked the smoothing options is a case in point. But it sadly didn´t bring the desired effect and sidestepped the actual "problem".
 
For all the people complaining saying its fine as its not a no limits and the coaster builder is acceptable.

One of the biggest draws to this genre of games is building coasters so why shouldnt we have a good coaster builder.
I don't think anyone is complaining because it is fine and most likely (I have not polled people so I am guessing here) pretty much everyone would be happy with further improvements/advancements for the coaster builder (or any of the tools in the game for that matter). But just because the coaster builder currently does not have the same capabilities or can deliver similar smooth results that NoLimits can, doesn't mean that is in the game now is broken or doesn't work like it should. Frontier can correct me here if I am wrong, but I don't think the end goal for the coaster builder was to compete with what you can find in NoLimits. I also have not seen anywhere where Frontier has made such promise.

Dont get me wrong frontier have done a good job with PC but the more I play the less its the game we were all hoping it to be when it was announced.

[wacky][wacky]
Please don't include me in this statement. For me, and probably many others (have no data on this but 2 million customers can't all be unhappy) the game exceeded what I expected based on experience I had with RCT 1-3 as well as the promotional material supplied by Frontier prior to release.

I'm 50/50 at this point. We know Frontier have been working on this as some more smoothing options came out recently. The height etc.

Having said that they have been silent about this issue, I think Bo mentioned it once in a stream and now it feels like "if we don't mention it it'll go away".
These two statements clash against each other. As you said yourself, Frontier does not about the "issue" and has tried to make it better by introducing more options when it comes to smoothing. Knowing how Frontier operates, the fact that they have acknowledged this should be seen as something positive. Frontier never announces anything until it is ready, this would be no exception. But they have acknowledged that not everyone is happy with how the tools work today and that is big. We may never see further improvements on this but that doesn't mean they didn't try. They won't say that nothing won't come out until they are 100% sure that is the case, and as long as you don't hear this, they probably are working on it one way or another. People also makes it sound like this is a simple thing to correct, just change a few lines of code and voila, perfection.
 
I
Id love to have a continous roll and for the smoothing not to wipe out my heartlines after spending time getting the look right. If they can't do anything then i would prefer them to come out and say "we have looked at it and it is something we cannot do" then that would be fair we would know that they have at least tried. I think it's the silence that is making it a bigger issue IMO
That would be the best solution.

The 4 meter technique is a tricky thing: It proves that smooth coasters are actually a possibility, IF you spend ages on building and then smoothing tiny sections backwards and forwards to oblivion.
THAT should not be an objective for a game that is supposed to be fun. Applying the 4m technique is anything but fun and more or less a punishment.
 
That would be the best solution.

The 4 meter technique is a tricky thing: It proves that smooth coasters are actually a possibility, IF you spend ages on building and then smoothing tiny sections backwards and forwards to oblivion.
THAT should not be an objective for a game that is supposed to be fun. Applying the 4m technique is anything but fun and more or less a punishment.
It does not prove anything, those 4 mtr technique coasters are way less smooth than when you use longer segments..

The 4 mtr solution is a joke.
 
These two statements clash against each other. As you said yourself, Frontier does not about the "issue" and has tried to make it better by introducing more options when it comes to smoothing. Knowing how Frontier operates, the fact that they have acknowledged this should be seen as something positive. Frontier never announces anything until it is ready, this would be no exception. But they have acknowledged that not everyone is happy with how the tools work today and that is big. We may never see further improvements on this but that doesn't mean they didn't try. They won't say that nothing won't come out until they are 100% sure that is the case, and as long as you don't hear this, they probably are working on it one way or another. People also makes it sound like this is a simple thing to correct, just change a few lines of code and voila, perfection.
No they don't clash actually It was two sides to the argument. I said they have never acknowledged the issue officially but have made some tweaks to the smoothing tool. Actually you have put words into my mouth I never said it was a simple fix or presume to know anything about coding for that matter. But when a thread has been going since alpha and no one from frontier have commented or acknowledged then I can understand why people feel they aren't listened to.

For those of you who say it is just a game etc that wasn't how frontier marketed the game in the first instance it was "simulation evolved" and they were putting in nuts and bolts to make everything appropriate for the "real world" so I think people were expecting better things of the coaster editor.
 
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What does this has to do with Coaster Smoothness.........
Just that my trust in Frontier has gone down a little over the past 2 years, not just for me, but for other people. But I'm fine if you don't have a problem with the smoothness of coasters, or if you don't like peoples opinions, you're just as entitled to yours as I am mine.

The 4 mtr technique does not iron out creases like with a shirt, it just moves them closer to each other which makes it look like the camera has an seizure. Seriously, how can someone say that functions better?
[video=youtube_share;MVLNjShWkV4]https://youtu.be/MVLNjShWkV4[/video]
I used these coasters, as they use what I like to call "locked cam"

Tell me that you can make a better roll without doing the 4m technique [up] and share the class ;0




And what game where we ALL hoping for?

To me, the game is as I envisioned it upon/before release.
I think that the fact you have a button that says "smooth" banking, and "smooth" height, and "smooth" roll and "Smooth all" kinda paints a perfect picture for what its suppose to do, so why should it not be Smooth?

Also tell me why the coaster smoothing shouldn't be on par with No Limits 1, a coaster simulation released in 2001, almost 20 years old?
 
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It does not prove anything, those 4 mtr technique coasters are way less smooth than when you use longer segments..

The 4 mtr solution is a joke.
Well, I find that the 4m thing is good in certain very specific circumstances. But NONE of those instances involve significant changes in bank angle. As you say, the problem with hand-made rolls is the jerk at the joints between track sections, so using the 4m thing for a heatline roll just gives you more jerks. Bad idea.

Where the 4m thing DOES work is where the bank angle is constant or nearly so throughout the element you're building, AND you're also concerned about maintaining the overall radius and general shape of the curves involved while you're smoothing the track. The constant bank angle eliminates the jerks at the track joints and having lots of small pieces instead of a few big ones results in much less change in turn radius and/or elevation (as does using the new "smooth whatever" options instead of "smooth all").

So, the 4m thing works well on helices, loops, turnarounds, that sort of thing. When I'm making a life-size coaster replica, where I have to maintain the overall size and shape of the track, I use the 4m technique frequently in these areas of the track. Especially if I've already built some of the custom supports, and those supports attach to multiple levels of the track (like with a Galaxi), and I don't want to have to rebuild them after smoothing.

But DO NOT use 4m for hand-made rolls. As you say, it just makes things much worse.
 
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