Coaster Smoothness

Status
Thread Closed: Not open for further replies.
I guess you all know Sivarret´s Grapefruit, which was donw with 4MT. I think this is as good as it gets. But even in the POV (starts at 2:00) you´ll notive slight bumps in the inversions.
The only problem is that it took ages to build this coaster.
[video=youtube;y8LRz9z3V-0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8LRz9z3V-0[/video]
 
I guess you all know Sivarret´s Grapefruit, which was donw with 4MT. I think this is as good as it gets. But even in the POV (starts at 2:00) you´ll notive slight bumps in the inversions.
The only problem is that it took ages to build this coaster.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8LRz9z3V-0
In the video I posted, its much smoother (again, because each coaster used doesn't have the same cam) again, the problem with the seat cam, as well as the cam thats closer to the track is they both play out as if the camera is fixated 1 meter ahead of the train or so ((another example of this happening, knee cam on the log flume each time a boat gets to the top of a hill))

Has anyone used the track cam with the Zenith at all? it goes below/through the track each time it inverts :/

Also, I find it very weird that I'm the only one who has pointed the camera's out, a year and a half (or more) ago I noticed, and still find its only me thats noticed this very obvious thing, you can see the coaster turning before the train :/ I also might make a full track using one of the coasters from my video.
 
But when a thread has been going since alpha and no one from frontier have commented or acknowledged then I can understand why people feel they aren't listened to.
Maybe it is because Frontier does not want to acknowledge something they don't think is an issue? I don't know, but maybe that could be it? We have no clue and are just guessing here. We have been guessing for 28 pages. The size of the thread does not really say much about how big or small this issue is, just that a lot of the same people keeps arguing over the same thing over and over. I bet, I have not checked myself, that the majority of the posts in this thread are by the same 20 or so users.

For those of you who say it is just a game etc that wasn't how frontier marketed the game in the first instance it was "simulation evolved" and they were putting in nuts and bolts to make everything appropriate for the "real world" so I think people were expecting better things of the coaster editor.
That is how you, and maybe other people, made their own interpretation of what to expect. It is marketing, it is never done by developers and the two groups usually are in constant "battle" between each other. One want to sell as many games as possible (and hopefully have happy customers as well) by stretching the truth, the other want to deliver only when ready (which in some cases may be never depending on how much of a perfectionist you are). Only way to build a true opinion is to play the game yourself and then evaluate. Or you put the trust in others and take a gamble.

Also tell me why the coaster smoothing shouldn't be on par with No Limits 1, a coaster simulation released in 2001, almost 20 years old?
Why is this a requirement? They are still aiming at two different things. That is like saying that QCAD today should be able to do better 3D modelling and animations than what 3D Studio Max could do 20 years ago. They are built for two different target audiences. Another analogy is that a 2019 Mazda Miata would outperform a 2001 Ferrari 360 Modena because it is a 20 year newer car so it would by default be better on certain tasks. Different targets and audiences.
 
Why is this a requirement? They are still aiming at two different things. That is like saying that QCAD today should be able to do better 3D modelling and animations than what 3D Studio Max could do 20 years ago. They are built for two different target audiences. Another analogy is that a 2019 Mazda Miata would outperform a 2001 Ferrari 360 Modena because it is a 20 year newer car so it would by default be better on certain tasks. Different targets and audiences.
Why should coasters not be smooth? If you're fine with the way they are, then this thread isn't for you buddy :/
 
If you are not happy with the game, maybe it's not for you?
Maybe its not for me, but it could be for me, and I want it to be for me, as well as a lot others if the issues mentioned were sorted.

There's no use in people who don't see an issue with it, coming here and telling the others that do have an issue with it that they are wrong, is there?
 
Why should coasters not be smooth? If you're fine with the way they are, then this thread isn't for you buddy :/
Has anyone here said that we don't want smooth coasters? This whole discussion started (for me) when people started to say that the game is completely unplayable due to the coasters not being smooth at all. That statement is a little bit unfair to Frontier and to all that don't see it that drastically. It also takes away energy and resources from, for most people, more important issues like performance. What good is a perfectly smooth coaster if the game is a slide show? Wouldn't that be a better prioritization instead of trying to fix the final 5% of something that works 95% well? Usually the last 5% of anything (to reach perfections) takes as much time or more as the first 95%.

Maybe this game is not for you if you don't like how Frontier has done things. To expect major overhauls/changes to the game 2+ years in is not very realistic and seems like a waste of time. Maybe there is a reason why there are no other better games in this genera? Maybe it is not as easy ans straight forward as it may seem?

In the end, it is just a game.
 
To expect major overhauls/changes to the game 2+ years in is not very realistic and seems like a waste of time. Maybe there is a reason why there are no other better games in this genera? Maybe it is not as easy ans straight forward as it may seem?
I mean, people didn't really expect it 2 years+ down the line.

For me, I'd personally just be happy if they fixed the cameras so that wing coasters don't look down to the knee's of guests/dummies, as well as the log flume.
Its not exactly impossible to sort that out considering 4 other coasters can do it though ((again, the video I posted on the previous page))
 
Maybe its not for me, but it could be for me, and I want it to be for me, as well as a lot others if the issues mentioned were sorted.

There's no use in people who don't see an issue with it, coming here and telling the others that do have an issue with it that they are wrong, is there?
Doesn't everyone's opinion have equal value if the devs use that information to make decisions?
If it's ok to silence the opposition, remember, to those you are debating, you are the opposition.
 
Doesn't everyone's opinion have equal value if the devs use that information to make decisions?
If it's ok to silence the opposition, remember, to those you are debating, you are the opposition.
Indeed, they have equal value, but would I go and respond to something that people have an issue with that doesn't concern me? which could possibly improve the game? for example... Weather, I don't really care for it, but I know a lot of others do, but I wouldn't go to a weather thread telling people that the game is fine and its not needed.
 
Apart from the video I posted above [happy]
That's quite good but the jerks are still there, just a little. You can't get rid of them entirely. It's how the track pieces are built. They reach the desired bank angle a short distance from the end of the section so you always get a short flat spot. The more sections you use, the more flat spots, and smoothing reduces but never eliminates them.

What makes for smoothness in significant bank changes is minimizing the angle change from 1 section to the next, so the flat spots aren't such abrupt changes compared to the rate of roll. This works for any length of track section, not just 4m. The limiting factor is the amount of bank change per section, which is about 11.25-15^. Sticking to this will, after many smoothing passes, MOSTLY iron out the kinks.

All that using 4m sections does is minimize the horizontal distance covered during the roll. But even with 4m, the roll will be from 48-64m long, depending on which angle you used, which is WAY too long for most situations. IOW, this technique is only of any use in the specific situation where you actually want a long, slow roll AND it's not on the level plane the stock elements work in. If it's on the level, especially if you want it shorter, use the stock elements.
 
Indeed, they have equal value, but would I go and respond to something that people have an issue with that doesn't concern me? which could possibly improve the game? for example... Weather, I don't really care for it, but I know a lot of others do, but I wouldn't go to a weather thread telling people that the game is fine and its not needed.
You are free to make that choice. Others are free to add their opinion on any subject anyone posts about. Like it or not.
 
You are free to make that choice. Others are free to add their opinion on any subject anyone posts about. Like it or not.
Sure [up]

What I'll do from now on, making my choice freely, is to ignore the people that tell me I'm wrong, and that there's nothing wrong with it, or that they won't change it, or that its whatever% done and works fine, and just talk to the people that do agree that there's an issue and that it needs to be fixed. I'm consider this one of those sorts of situations where I feel like people shouldn't report bugs because I'm not having an issue with it. perhaps I should go to the bug part and tell everybody they're wrong because I'm not having that issue?

Anyway, back on topic (again)
Frontier, fix coaster cam, log flume cam, the dangerously supports on the sundial, and track smoothness please, It'd be cool if we could get those small straight parts in the Powerup and Boomerang coasters sorted too.
 
There's no use in people who don't see an issue with it, coming here and telling the others that do have an issue with it that they are wrong, is there?
This is a very dangerous thought to have and enforce. If you are not allowed to come in and voice your opinion because you have a different view, then we are dangerously close to certain, very dark, eras in the human history. The debate is not smooth coaster vs. jerky/unwatchable coasters. It is about that what is in the game now is fully playable/usable (for most people) and putting the resources that would need to go into improving the smoothness into other areas like improving game optimization, new rides, adding/fixing management etc. (whatever other ideas people may or may not have). Time/money are for the most companies a finite resource and it need to be allocated appropriately. To shut down opposing thoughts regarding this because they don't align with yours is not good for anyone.
 
Indeed, they have equal value, but would I go and respond to something that people have an issue with that doesn't concern me? which could possibly improve the game? for example... Weather, I don't really care for it, but I know a lot of others do, but I wouldn't go to a weather thread telling people that the game is fine and its not needed.
You probably would if it was a decision to be made between getting whether or a smoothing tool/coaster builder that would be perfect for you. In a situation like that, I am sure you, or anyone else, would like to argue for their "horse in the race". No? You would just give up?
 
Last edited:
Sure [up]

What I'll do from now on, making my choice freely, is to ignore the people that tell me I'm wrong, and that there's nothing wrong with it, or that they won't change it, or that its whatever% done and works fine, and just talk to the people that do agree that there's an issue and that it needs to be fixed. I'm consider this one of those sorts of situations where I feel like people shouldn't report bugs because I'm not having an issue with it. perhaps I should go to the bug part and tell everybody they're wrong because I'm not having that issue?

Anyway, back on topic (again)
Frontier, fix coaster cam, log flume cam, the dangerously supports on the sundial, and track smoothness please, It'd be cool if we could get those small straight parts in the Powerup and Boomerang coasters sorted too.
So are you still arguing for silencing people? You just can't let it go?
As far as bug reports, they are for Frontier to sort out. In actuality it is good to know if a bug isn't happening for everyone. You saying you are not experiencing a reported but, might help narrow down the source.

I'd prefer better frame rates over smoother coasters, hands down. What good is a smooth coaster at 8FPS?
 
Maybe it is because Frontier does not want to acknowledge something they don't think is an issue? I don't know, but maybe that could be it? We have no clue and are just guessing here. We have been guessing for 28 pages. The size of the thread does not really say much about how big or small this issue is, just that a lot of the same people keeps arguing over the same thing over and over. I bet, I have not checked myself, that the majority of the posts in this thread are by the same 20 or so users.



That is how you, and maybe other people, made their own interpretation of what to expect. It is marketing, it is never done by developers and the two groups usually are in constant "battle" between each other. One want to sell as many games as possible (and hopefully have happy customers as well) by stretching the truth, the other want to deliver only when ready (which in some cases may be never depending on how much of a perfectionist you are). Only way to build a true opinion is to play the game yourself and then evaluate. Or you put the trust in others and take a gamble.
First point is "we" aren't guessing. You were. I was stating the basic fact. In relation to your 2nd point where a developer is making incredible coaster models and have previously updated the coaster designer, do you all remember it in alpha stage? Then why shouldn't we expect it to be accurate like the coaster and ride models? To say it was a marketing issue is funny as they were called dev diarys ......
 
Just that my trust in Frontier has gone down a little over the past 2 years, not just for me, but for other people. But I'm fine if you don't have a problem with the smoothness of coasters, or if you don't like peoples opinions, you're just as entitled to yours as I am mine.
I respect and accept your opinion, I'm just not sure why it has to be posted in every thread.

Also tell me why the coaster smoothing shouldn't be on par with No Limits 1, a coaster simulation released in 2001, almost 20 years old?
O stop it. No limits 1 was a great editor, but it was waaaaaaaay more time consuming then PC, which is one of the side problems, we want smooth coasters, but we don't want to spent ages on things either.......

I mean, people didn't really expect it 2 years+ down the line.

For me, I'd personally just be happy if they fixed the cameras so that wing coasters don't look down to the knee's of guests/dummies, as well as the log flume.
Its not exactly impossible to sort that out considering 4 other coasters can do it though ((again, the video I posted on the previous page))
I'm out of this thread from now on. Most has been said. Especially when someone not comes here to ask for smoother coasters (which I actually did), but a smoother cam........ [wacky] and then tries to convince me I'm not here for smoother coasters.. [down]

I just don't have the opinion of the game breaking immersion or being unplayable.
 
Last edited:
I'm out of this thread from now on. Most has been said. Especially when someone not comes here to ask for smoother coasters (which I actually did), but a smoother cam........ [wacky]
You don't think a better camera would improve how smooth a coaster is? you don't wonder why I pointed out those 4 coasters, or why the "master builders" use the camera thats closer to the track each time they show off a coaster? but yeah... I guess its not a camera thing right?

I guess people must really love watching the camera go down to guests/dummies knee's at the top of a flume lift hill, or zooming down to the knees when making a twist at the top of a wing coaster, or the camera going through the track on the Zenith, or the camera hanging off of the track if you do a tight turn on the zenith.

But seeing as you're out (and clearly cannot see this happening in your game) Baiiiiiiiiiiieeeeeeeeeeeeeee xo


First point is "we" aren't guessing. You were. I was stating the basic fact. In relation to your 2nd point where a developer is making incredible coaster models and have previously updated the coaster designer, do you all remember it in alpha stage? Then why shouldn't we expect it to be accurate like the coaster and ride models? To say it was a marketing issue is funny as they were called dev diarys ......
I love how we've gone from non acknowledgement, to some sort of acknowledgement, to "Oh, it will effect the optimization" I also love how people came here trying to shut down opinions, and then when I choose not to engage any longer, I'm told that I'm shutting down opinions [where is it] or that I should choose between 2 things, or that because I don't see any logic in going into thread that could benefit everybody as a whole and that the thread is probably not for them, I'm told that the game (that I kinda love) probably isn't for me, and that it shouldn't be compared to a game from 20'ish years ago, and shouldn't be compared to a previous game from the same developer
giphy.gif
 
Status
Thread Closed: Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom