Horizons Cobra Mk IV???

[eldorel]

Is it just me or is his topic thoroughly depressing? Fighting for the 'principle' of not having to pay fake money for a fake ship you do not want...

You misunderstand.

The principle being discussed has nothing to do with the ship.
It has to do with transparency, ethics, and responsibility.

An error was made, a misunderstanding occurred, and instead of immediately addressing it by communicating with people who had already made a purchase, FDEV edited the page and waited until people complained.

The item could have been a bobble head, decal, skin, or the ability for your ship's contrail to look like rainbow sparkles.
That doesn't change the fact that FDEV needs to change the way they deal with this type of issue.

 

[WR3ND]

And its a fight to get that as well, now they reckon we all misunderstood the newsletters, which we did not.

Based on what I remember, I agree that the new Viper is an issue in regard to what was said and implied by Frontier. The new Cobra though, not so much really. To be fair though, I wasn't following the Viper as closely, since I wouldn't have qualified for a free one anyway, so I'm less aware of the specifics there.

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Who cares, just get on and play the game.
.
At best you might argue they owe you a few hundred thousand in game credits (cost of a mk4 Cobra) but as that can be earned in a few minutes in game why on earth would you waste time on here arguing about it???

I can respect people's concerns regarding matters of principle, but in this situation, I don't feel that there's all that much substance to them.

 

[the darkwalker]

Edit - got it sorted out with support.

 

[eldorel]

Based on what I remember, I agree that the new Viper is an issue in regard to what was said and implied by Frontier. The new Cobra though, not so much really. To be fair though, I wasn't following the Viper as closely, since I wouldn't have qualified for a free one anyway, so I'm less aware of the specifics there.

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I can respect people's concerns regarding matters of principle, but in this situation, I don't feel that there's all that much substance to them.

Thanks to everything I post with a link in it needing moderator approval, it got buried, but in post #89 of this thread I listed out links to every announcement that I could find.

While most of them were ambiguous, some of them aren't.


05 August, 2015:Frontier Forum post by Michael Brooks

"If you own Elite: Dangerous and Elite Dangerous: Horizons then you get the Cobra MkIV"




11 August, 2015:Facebook post:

"Existing players can take advantage of a loyalty discount and a free Cobra Mk IV."




13-16 August, 2015:Edit to Horizons Preorder @ Frontier store:

"The Cobra Mark IV will be added to your account when Elite Dangerous: Horizons Lands."

 

[highlandrat]

tryed it in the beta you dont want it even if it was free the mk111 is a far better ship

 

[WR3ND]

So basically, they just closed the viper thread, and said that 1 of the 5 new ships that we should have already received, is in reality a livery for the free eagle. That i still don't have.
What is going on?

Maybe they're on to the thin staff now this week. Either way, I agree that there is some weirdness going on there and that further clarification from the higher ups is in order.

It's a different issue than the Cobra Mk. IV though, in my opinion.

 

[WR3ND]

...

The Facebook post does seem like more cause for concern, so I wouldn't hold it against people for being mislead and confused by it. That being said, it has been known for quite some time now how the Cobra Mk. IV was being implemented into the game.

I would try and bring these issues up with FD directly if someone is feeling wronged by them.

 

[Zacasaur]

I never thought we were getting it for free. But that may just be the pessimist in me.

 

[shambles1980]

What would be the motivation for that? "snip".

I never said it was deliberate, and so i will provide no motive..
But others in this thread "claim" that they would not have pre-ordered e.t.c if they were not under the impression that they would have received a "SPECIFIC" free ship.

now as i said. i think these people are talking a lot of whoo haa and baloney. and that argument is not valid in any way shape or form..
I think they would have pre ordered even if the statement was worded so specifically that even a person who could not read english would have been able to tell it was not going to be handed to you for free.
But There in lies the outline of a motive...
"boost pre-order"

Again i will just reiterate. what i see,
I see a paragraph that was worded incorrectly, But still specifically states that it would be purchasable with in game credits..
the only way to be confused by it is by not fully reading the paragraph. If you stopped after the part where is said free ship. "about 1/3rd of the way through the paragraph"
then yes it does say you would get the cobra for free in game..
If you finished reading the thing it specifically states you would have to pay in game credits for it..

Legally this is enough to cover FD from any breach of uk trade laws..

Morally?
then that's a different matter. Wouldn't hurt to just say..
"sorry people we will try and make it a bit more clear in the future, But it does state that you have to use in game credits to buy it. and that it would become available to you for free. Sorry for the confusion"

Obviously i wouldn't use that exact statement if i was them as it implies culpability. when the fact is the culpable ones are the ones who did not fully read the paragraph..

but i dont think that.
"sorry you were to lazy to read a paragraph people, next time we will try to keep it down to 2-3 words of single syllables so you dont get confuzed"
is going to make any one happy.

 

[AnnuverScotinExile]

The wording wasn't wrong though; It was just occasionally unclear. However, it was also repeatedly clarified months ago.

Yes it was. Please, if you cannot be bothered to read the thread to get the facts, don't post. They initially and unambiguously said the ship would be free. They later changed the wording to what some are saying is ambiguous (but seems clear enough to me).

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the wording really was very misleading "right up to the point in the same paragraph where it explicitly stated can buy the cobra with in game credits"
Now personally i would have read the whole thing. but you could argue that they hoped people wouldnt. Which would imply deliberate..
however 2 words swapped over or 1 added to the 1st half of the paragraph would have left no doubt.

it is a shame it was worded in such a way.

You are missing the point. The initial wording was absolutely clear that the ship was free. It is that initial wording that is getting people worked up, not the subsequent rewrite.

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In november, FDEV realized that the wording was easily misunderstood TO THE POINT OF CHANGING IT a month into the promotion.

Not true. The wording was not easily misunderstood, because it was absolutely clear with no grounds for different interpretations. The problem was that the wording did not reflect what they wanted it to say. Someone screwed up and posted the wrong wording. It was how they went forward from that point (by quietly just changing the wording) that is the issue here.

 

[WR3ND]

Yes it was. Please, if you cannot be bothered to read the thread to get the facts, don't post. They initially and unambiguously said the ship would be free. They later changed the wording to what some are saying is ambiguous (but seems clear enough to me).

...

I'm basing my opinion on what I remember about it, not directly on what people posted in this thread, which goes back much later to the Horizons reveal itself. But, I have already conceded that much of the official wording was unclear, misleading, and likely mistaken, which you would have known if you had bothered to read my subsequent posts in this thread.

I also don't use Facebook.

FD staff aren't perfect, and while that's unfortunate, it is understandable. (Just read the closed Viper thread for further "clarification.")

Either way, it has been known for months now how the Cobra Mk. IV was going to be implemented into the game, so this thread is excessively late getting to the table.

 

[OldSalt]

You can get warts for free and tbh they are about as much fun.

 

[shambles1980]

those who say the wording was changed.. maybe you would like to check wayback machine to see if it cached the page proving that it was changed..
may help the argument.

 

[ChavaiotH]

I can buy the Cobra mk IV and the viper mk IV. But I wont.
Love my cobra mk III.
Last time I exterminated the viper mk IV, nothing special.

 

[WR3ND]

those who say the wording was changed.. maybe you would like to check wayback machine to see if it cached the page proving that it was changed..
may help the argument.

From the thread I started during the Horizons reveal event (which was later merged with additional threads) about the Lifetime Expansion Pass, this has a bit of ambiguity about it, but nothing to make me concerned and feel wronged or cheated...

For a limited time all existing Elite: Dangerous players will receive a £10 loyalty discount plus the exclusive Cobra Mark IV ship when ordering Elite Dangerous: Horizons through the Frontier Store. Discount will be automatically applied at checkout.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=172180&page=3&p=2642071&viewfull=1#post2642071

Also...

Existing players will also unlock the exclusive Cobra Mk IV ship in Elite Dangerous: Horizons. The Cobra Mk IV will be available in the game only to players who joined us in the first year – forever. It’s our ‘thank you’ for your faith in the game, and you’ll see more of the Cobra Mk IV in Friday’s Peek Of The Week.

-David Braben ~ 05/08/15 https://community.elitedangerous.com/node/247

 

[eldorel]

those who say the wording was changed.. maybe you would like to check wayback machine to see if it cached the page proving that it was changed..
may help the argument.

I already did this. Go check out post #89 from this thread.
(It took almost 2 days to get approved by the mods due to all the links, so I'm not surprised people missed it)

The wayback machine clearly shows the original text, as well as an edit 10 days after the offer started, and then a change around september second to finally clarify that the offer included access to the cobra, but it needed to be purchased.

I also included links to the original announcement on facebook, a comment by the executive producer of the game, a twitch stream with braben, and a twitter post by braben.

Until the edit in September, every single text post on all media forms was either clearly stating "a free cobra", "you get the cobra", or was ambiguous.

The only clear and non-ambiguous statement that clarified the in-game purchase requirement was during the twitch stream.

 

[Daveo178]

I already did this. Go check out post #84 from this thread.
(It took almost 2 days to get approved by the mods due to all the links, so I'm not surprised people missed it)

I appreciate the effort in grabbing all the relevant articles/posts. I jumped on the lifetime on 5th August and was swayed by the free Cobra IV, I would have ordered whether the ship was free or not but fully agree with the principled stance of the arguments put forward here. Didn't watch the twitch and once ordered why would I re-read the order page?

Not noticed the black paint job from black Friday either...

 

[shambles1980]

ok so this:
https://web.archive.org/web/2015081...izons/elite-dangerous-horizons-pre-order.html

is called bait and switch in the usa. which is illigal.
and it is also against a few uk trade laws.

does make it a bit of an issue to be fair.
So im just gonna step away from this can of worms.

 

[WR3ND]

ok so this:
https://web.archive.org/web/2015081...izons/elite-dangerous-horizons-pre-order.html

is called bait and switch in the usa. which is illigal.
and it is also against a few uk trade laws.

does make it a bit of an issue to be fair.
So im just gonna step away from this can of worms.

I wonder why they added this line "The Cobra Mark IV will be added to your account when Elite Dangerous: Horizons Lands." when it wasn't on the site on the 5th of August (my quote from the site), especially considering this "Existing Elite Dangerous players receive a £10 loyalty discount off the price of Elite Dangerous: Horizons, retaining their progress and unlocking the exclusive ‘Cobra Mk IV’ in-game spacecraft." is below on the same page on the same date that mentions the above quoted text.

I'm guessing some FD staff weren't entirely up on things or just unfortunately chose poor wording. Calling a poor and/or mistaken choice of wording illegal (especially when it is clarified a bit on the same page) seems rather uncalled for, honestly.

 

[Soulstain]

What happened to the choice of free ship we were supposed to receive because they didn't get the 30 ships out on release? I believe they announced that back during 1.3 or something. That was suppose to be for all ED players whether you bought Horizons or not as an apology for having to wait for the 30 ships planned for release.