News Collect Wing Mission Balancing
- Thread starter Paul_Crowther
- Start date
No, I do not believe they play the game at all. Just watch their live streams... they run around in the cheapest ships possible and I've never seen one do a mission other than to show off any new concepts or mission types. I'll be surprised if we even reach season 4.
Meanwhile Crime Sweeps/Milstrikes/etc are still broken and give no merits for killing ships. Any Power play faction with a combat ethos CANNOT EXPAND. This is game breaking. Seriously who cares if people can make money a little faster. There are so many other bugs that need fixing, the whole player base collectively sighs and rolls their eyes every time you adjust mission payouts instead of patching actual bugs.
+1
Furthermore, wing mission payouts were certainly out of balance, but they encouraged cooperative play among player groups and even among random in-system CMDRs little else in the game. Please FDev, take this -once again- as a hint regarding development of the in-game economy.
Furthermore, wing mission payouts were certainly out of balance, but they encouraged cooperative play among player groups and even among random in-system CMDRs little else in the game. Please FDev, take this -once again- as a hint regarding development of the in-game economy.
The missions actually did not spawn frequently. It was fun to earn the 20-30 mil with other cmdrs. why destroy it. why make it 5 mil and guess what no one uses it because you can do normal trading and earn more. these 20 -30 even 40 mil with others is fun. ok 1000 cargo or even 1500 is a bit low but make it more than 3000, no. Then it becomes a grind for those who can put in numerous hours into game play. Don't turn this great mission into another cant be bothered as its not worth my time idea
Yeah, the payouts were a bit inflated.
I can't be mad about this one lol.
I'm still really bummed about Massacre mission stacking, though. Bring it back, Fdev!
I can't be mad about this one lol.
I'm still really bummed about Massacre mission stacking, though. Bring it back, Fdev!
I'm not sure if Frontier knows this, but these sourcing missions don't make you more than several passenger mission runs since you need to buy the commodities for the sourcing and even in a T9 (and I used a well protected T9 for hauling/smuggling in Open) or Cutter you were running back and forth 2 or 3+ times which means these weren't quick missions that paid as much as passenger missions despite the eye-popping amount of "50 million" (quite a bit less after you're out of pocket for the not-cheap commodities and taken 3+ trips to do it).
You seem fine with how much passenger missions pay, but when something else starts to approach them it's seen as "too much". Why do you seem to want players to focus on running passenger missions? Why don't players have a variety of activities that pays great when doing them at a high level?
The main reason I enjoyed the sourcing missions is that a bunch of them asked for various contrabands (narcotics, imp slaves, reg slaves), and I love smuggling and would like to focus on it over other careers. However, smuggling has paid horribly for a long time now, and the sourcing missions gave me a chance to actually play my favourite career and make some cash instead of ferrying passengers around if I needed to make money-- I feel you need to allow other careers to begin to achieve the same possible cash as passenger missions, it's really a strange balance going on since at least 2.4 if not longer (I started playing in 2015, and took time off and came back last November during 2.4).
I don't need to min/max, and I wanna do what is fun for me to do (smuggling and combat). Being a pragmatic person though, if I see one activity pay a few million an hour in an expensive ship versus 100 million an hour and the 100 million an hour thing is much easier/more reliable, I'll feel like a dope for not doing the thing that pays. Or I'll feel like I have to go do the thing that pays as a kind of homework before doing the stuff I find fun.
I've noticed more missions spawning on mission boards in general lately (at least in my experience); that is great! Frontier should be applauded for that since that's often come up as a complaint by players. And I've been noticing more frequent smuggling missions from various Anarchy factions, and even many smuggling missions with planetary bases as a destination, which are all things I've personally wanted for a while. But, they still pay much less than LEGAL cargo nearly every time, which doesn't make any sense, and all hauling/smuggling is way behind passenger missions even with the nicer paying sourcing missions that just got changed again.
Ya gotta bump up the pay combat pilots can make (it's so weird that it pays so much less than A to B risk-free passenger missions), and ya gotta improve the pay for smuggling missions. I also propose adding a bonus for smuggling missions with a planetary base as the destination-- you can't just boost through a mail slot to avoid a scan with those, it adds a nice challenge where you gotta not only dodge security but contend with the gravity of the planet, and you adjust your approach and strategy to account for these things, which results in the mission taking more time with a higher (fun) challenge.
It'd be a fun reward for a fun activity, and the security of the system, the gravity of the planet, and distance traveled should be accounted for somehow. Right now, they just pay so little, but I am happy to see more of the mission type spawn in more locations compared to 2.4 and 3.0.
I'm also happy to see mining missions pay more now, but the amounts required seem very erratic, with 30 tons of Osmium and a few hundred tons of Osmium (or similar) paying the same at the same station. Still, I hope dedicated miners can now make a decent amount for their work, since I always felt it was weird that it paid so little.
Combat, smuggling, and piracy are all fun activities in the game, and come with an inherent element of risk. If you make those pay nicely again, then I think less players will get bored from grinding passenger missions all day. I feel like risk/reward/FUN is the important balance here, and Frontier can achieve that much better than it has been.
(And as always, when you reinstate long range smuggling/couriering like you mentioned you were working on, please make all smuggling "fail on scan", and select couriering also "fail on scan". I think it's an important component to make the missions more fun and rewarding)
You seem fine with how much passenger missions pay, but when something else starts to approach them it's seen as "too much". Why do you seem to want players to focus on running passenger missions? Why don't players have a variety of activities that pays great when doing them at a high level?
The main reason I enjoyed the sourcing missions is that a bunch of them asked for various contrabands (narcotics, imp slaves, reg slaves), and I love smuggling and would like to focus on it over other careers. However, smuggling has paid horribly for a long time now, and the sourcing missions gave me a chance to actually play my favourite career and make some cash instead of ferrying passengers around if I needed to make money-- I feel you need to allow other careers to begin to achieve the same possible cash as passenger missions, it's really a strange balance going on since at least 2.4 if not longer (I started playing in 2015, and took time off and came back last November during 2.4).
I don't need to min/max, and I wanna do what is fun for me to do (smuggling and combat). Being a pragmatic person though, if I see one activity pay a few million an hour in an expensive ship versus 100 million an hour and the 100 million an hour thing is much easier/more reliable, I'll feel like a dope for not doing the thing that pays. Or I'll feel like I have to go do the thing that pays as a kind of homework before doing the stuff I find fun.
I've noticed more missions spawning on mission boards in general lately (at least in my experience); that is great! Frontier should be applauded for that since that's often come up as a complaint by players. And I've been noticing more frequent smuggling missions from various Anarchy factions, and even many smuggling missions with planetary bases as a destination, which are all things I've personally wanted for a while. But, they still pay much less than LEGAL cargo nearly every time, which doesn't make any sense, and all hauling/smuggling is way behind passenger missions even with the nicer paying sourcing missions that just got changed again.
Ya gotta bump up the pay combat pilots can make (it's so weird that it pays so much less than A to B risk-free passenger missions), and ya gotta improve the pay for smuggling missions. I also propose adding a bonus for smuggling missions with a planetary base as the destination-- you can't just boost through a mail slot to avoid a scan with those, it adds a nice challenge where you gotta not only dodge security but contend with the gravity of the planet, and you adjust your approach and strategy to account for these things, which results in the mission taking more time with a higher (fun) challenge.
It'd be a fun reward for a fun activity, and the security of the system, the gravity of the planet, and distance traveled should be accounted for somehow. Right now, they just pay so little, but I am happy to see more of the mission type spawn in more locations compared to 2.4 and 3.0.
I'm also happy to see mining missions pay more now, but the amounts required seem very erratic, with 30 tons of Osmium and a few hundred tons of Osmium (or similar) paying the same at the same station. Still, I hope dedicated miners can now make a decent amount for their work, since I always felt it was weird that it paid so little.
Combat, smuggling, and piracy are all fun activities in the game, and come with an inherent element of risk. If you make those pay nicely again, then I think less players will get bored from grinding passenger missions all day. I feel like risk/reward/FUN is the important balance here, and Frontier can achieve that much better than it has been.
(And as always, when you reinstate long range smuggling/couriering like you mentioned you were working on, please make all smuggling "fail on scan", and select couriering also "fail on scan". I think it's an important component to make the missions more fun and rewarding)
So I guess they will all go back to being not worth the trouble of even doing then. great balance. here is the way they work. source an supply 3000 tons of said item. accept mission. and go to 3rd party web site and search for said items. well there is a station with plenty yay. that's when you see the problem. not only do you have to travel 4 to 5 hundred lys to get them. they cost almost as much as the payout for the mission.
Oh great. Another game mechanic becomes completely pointless to do. Why even bother putting wing missions in the game in the first place? And for those crying exploit its not an exploit to deliver 5000+ tons of stuff and expect a decent pay out, you and your wing still have to work for that money. So quick to Nerf the game rather than actually fix other areas. If the nerfs keep going on like this soon the only way to get enjoyment will be murdering players for the giggles.
The economy isn't player based, so why does it even matter? I get nerfing them a bit, but for the love of god don't make wing missions irrelevant again, please. And maybe buff payouts for assassination missions and the like while you're at it, because there's no balance there to speak of. Kill 90 pirates for 3 million? Come on.
Just going to say one thing and be clear about it. Some of these missions have HIGH buy in costs for the commodities requested and come at high risk of being attacked by pirates. So by reducing the payouts you are effectively forcing people to do these in FULL wings, because otherwise the profit margins are virtually minimal and not worth the effort required. If you're going to nerf the payouts then nerf these mission demands, with some asking for over 2000 tonnes of palladium costing the player millions in the process.
Ridiculous the extent of ganking costing people rebuys, the encouragement to fight aliens whilst risking rebuys and your crew members who cannot be replaced, all for a couple of million credits etc.
FD, not everyone is as dedicated as me who plays this almost exclusively at the moment. Do you want the players with less time to have zero means of enjoying your game and getting something out of it?
Oh and to add to my complaint, if the nerf is a heavy one, then these wing missions become non viable solo, and therefore I'd request you generate more solo appropriate missions on the board because sometimes it's saturated with wing only ones.
Ridiculous the extent of ganking costing people rebuys, the encouragement to fight aliens whilst risking rebuys and your crew members who cannot be replaced, all for a couple of million credits etc.
FD, not everyone is as dedicated as me who plays this almost exclusively at the moment. Do you want the players with less time to have zero means of enjoying your game and getting something out of it?
Oh and to add to my complaint, if the nerf is a heavy one, then these wing missions become non viable solo, and therefore I'd request you generate more solo appropriate missions on the board because sometimes it's saturated with wing only ones.
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Agreed
Exactly this. So many other parts of the game have needed balance for a lot longer
Exactly this. So many other parts of the game have needed balance for a lot longer
So I take it that this takes precedence over say, perhaps, a mission bug that's been preventing players from completing missions for months? https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/435602-Massacre-Mission-Targets-not-showing
Instead of killing every opportunity people have for making money to actually DO things in ED, why not actually find staff who can fix and resolve bugs that PREVENT people from actually earning money? It amazes me how quickly things like this are jumped on in the interests of "game economy". It's infuriating.
Balance of the economy in the game? Seriously? Where is the economy in the game because the only thing that can make you spend credits is the repurchase of the ship Point....
With all the ships and rotten credits.
Squadron missions in the end you can do one and share with the rest of friends without having transported a single ton.
We're good.
Trade between players of modules, goods, materials or data.
When the game's merchandise really influences the economy not only BGS if not to influence what the system manufactures, imports, (exports, modules, ships, merchandise)
At that moment we will talk about the economy of the game.
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It's funny and satisfying to see the players finally waking up to what I've personally been saying since the days of the beta, before release: FD have no idea what they're doing in general and even less of an idea about who their playerbase are for ED. Also, they've been like this, about payouts, since the very beginning. So much so that playing the subsequent betas was much much more fun than the main game simply because you could have actual fun without worrying about credits.
Considering that, contrary to FD's belief, there's absolutely no real economy in the game to speak of (just a poor imitation of one) and that the amount of credits a player has has basically no direct effect on anyone else but that player and his experience, the constant and relentless insistence, by FD, on minimizing credit earnings has reached levels way beyond moronic. What the hell, FD? What the hell are you doing? I mean, if there IS a reason and you guys can explain what this "economy" you so worry about spoiling actually is and where the hell it is, then please get to that explanation already. So far, what you call "economy" has nothing really to do with anything and serves only the purpose of artificially limiting people's ability to earn enough credits to have fun. Selling at a station increases their reputation and your reputation and influence. This, in turn, increases the station's faction's standing and power. None of those will be affected if the payouts are higher. NONE OF THOSE ELEMENTS WHATSOEVER. Perhaps it's just that your fabled BGS couldn't cope with faster faction changes? Are you, FD, afraid that people will end up in Anacondas way too fast? And if they do - what is the problem? Someone who can't fly a Sidewinder won't be able to fly an Anaconda and it will be useless to them. Someone who can fly an Anaconda can fly a Sidewinder.
There are multi-billionaires in the game aplenty. How does them being multi-billionaires spoil the fun for the rest of us? HOW?
Please, FD, stop being so stingy and scared of doing the right thing and increase payouts for everything across the board by at least 2 - 5 times, not to say 10x.
Considering that, contrary to FD's belief, there's absolutely no real economy in the game to speak of (just a poor imitation of one) and that the amount of credits a player has has basically no direct effect on anyone else but that player and his experience, the constant and relentless insistence, by FD, on minimizing credit earnings has reached levels way beyond moronic. What the hell, FD? What the hell are you doing? I mean, if there IS a reason and you guys can explain what this "economy" you so worry about spoiling actually is and where the hell it is, then please get to that explanation already. So far, what you call "economy" has nothing really to do with anything and serves only the purpose of artificially limiting people's ability to earn enough credits to have fun. Selling at a station increases their reputation and your reputation and influence. This, in turn, increases the station's faction's standing and power. None of those will be affected if the payouts are higher. NONE OF THOSE ELEMENTS WHATSOEVER. Perhaps it's just that your fabled BGS couldn't cope with faster faction changes? Are you, FD, afraid that people will end up in Anacondas way too fast? And if they do - what is the problem? Someone who can't fly a Sidewinder won't be able to fly an Anaconda and it will be useless to them. Someone who can fly an Anaconda can fly a Sidewinder.
There are multi-billionaires in the game aplenty. How does them being multi-billionaires spoil the fun for the rest of us? HOW?
Please, FD, stop being so stingy and scared of doing the right thing and increase payouts for everything across the board by at least 2 - 5 times, not to say 10x.
Seriously the mission system is broken.
Got more than 300h in game and 90% of my credits were made with exploration data & bounty hunting...the only missions I did was some sight seeing passenger and a few one when I started the game (boom data delivery / black box to get my first ship).
They really should think to fix it or start a new one from scratch so it would probably be less buggy than the actual one.
Got more than 300h in game and 90% of my credits were made with exploration data & bounty hunting...the only missions I did was some sight seeing passenger and a few one when I started the game (boom data delivery / black box to get my first ship).
They really should think to fix it or start a new one from scratch so it would probably be less buggy than the actual one.