Combat Completely Ruined for Non Engineered Players

[NorthernDevo]

Now, I think thargoids w/o Guardian weapons are pretty much impossible (did anyone get Hydra w/o Guardian weapons?), and Guardian weapons are a massive grind.

Well - to be fair, Guardian weapons are not a grind at all if you enjoy exploring the ruins. If you're going there just with shopping in mind, then yeah.
As to this point, there is one Commander on this thread who has - but she's pretty unique and most decidedly THE best Thargoid-hunter in the game.
Which is kind of the point here. She is the best because she has put in hundreds of hours of intense practice, training, study, seeking mentors AND Engineering her ship. A lot of people use engineering to replace fighting skill - which misses the point of Engineering, and I include myself in that list until recently. While I absolutely despise the 'git gud' argument, thinking that you NEED engineering in order to fight means you're not really good at fighting yet. The OP in fact says that specifically in his opening post, but seems to have missed the irony of saying "I'm not very good and it's the fault of Engineering".

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

You are welcome to any salty interpretation you like, but if that feels like harassment your bar for harassment is very, very low.

Games place content behind achievement all the time. That's like game design 101. It's also notice there aren't scores of other places than combat zones to get into a space ship fight.



At G1 a gun is 30% better. Not 100 or 1,000 which is what an order of magnitude means. Also that was 1 experimental effect, caustic damage.

How hard is it to get one mumticannon to G4 Caustic? Takes less than an hour.

How stubborn do to need to be to refuse to engineer?

Very.

Games dont gate vanilla content behind arbitrary new requirements all the time. It's highly unusual and you're talking from your rear.

 

[Kastor]

Right it's time to start resolving this engineer issue once and for all.

If you think the current implementation of engineers have ruined or at least, hindered parts of the game Send me a message.

We CAN change this game for the better.

 

[Stelar 7]

Games dont gate vanilla content behind arbitrary new requirements all the time. It's highly unusual and you're talking from your rear.

Games rebalnce for new content all the time. "Vanillia" now applies to Engineers.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Games rebalnce for new content all the time. "Vanillia" now applies to Engineers.

Games don't nerf progress all the time. And I give not a single cup of bother what vanilla is now. They ruined my vanilla experience and that is all I need to know for ED.

 

[Stigbob]

I went into a Low Intensity Combat Zone in an A fitted Vulture and couldnt even kill 1 ship, I was fighting an Expert Cobra MkIII for around 20 minutes and it just would not die. The NPC ships use thermal weapons on you, their shields seem to recharge super quick and if you shoot the same target for too long, the entire instance seems to gang up on you and start blasting you.

All you need is to know how to pick your targets, how to avoid becoming the target and how to bug out when it goes wrong until you get the hang of it.

CZ NPC's lack any engineering except for spec ops which you will never encounter in a low-CZ. CZ NPC's do have tanky shields and military armour, but even thats straight off the shelf.

If they are all shooting you, you either shot a friendly or you got yourself isolated away from all the friendlies (bad situational awareness).

This isn't an engineering issue.

 

[Fedas]

How is this a counterpoint at all? The major complaint is that the enemies are bullet sponges now, and unproductive to fight without engineered weapons. You were using engineered guns, which even at G1, are orders of magnitude more powerful than off the shelf weapons. You're near the top of the line plus you've got multiple experimental effects going on. Woweee amazing you thought the challenge level was acceptable. Swap out those guns and try again, then get back to us.

If you take the time to re-read the post, it said " and even that only about half of it. TBH, it helped, but not a huge amount that I'd have noticed. " So half of my kills were w/o an engineered MC, and I didn't really notice that much the speed of the kills, as MC is anti-hull, and it was still taking time to down the shields with lasers.

And, as another post says, G1 MC is 25%. Even G5 is 45% max. With corrosive shells, maybe, just maybe, you get twice as good, and that's against hull only (it does b-all damage to shields). That's far far from an order of magnitude.

IMO reality of NPC combat (not AX) is that one-on-one, there's pretty much nothing NPCs can do against a fairly competent player with or without an engineered ship. Conversely, if you get five Elite Vultures targeting you at the same time, most players will struggle (well, maybe not if you're thermal-resistant prismatic shield tank, but I suspect that's not what most players fly, so the "most will struggle" still applies. For avoidance of doubt "most" is at least 50%).

TBH, most engineers can be unlocked pretty quickly, probably Palin and Sedesi being hardest with the 5kly requirement.

Materials aren't even that much of a grind (unless you want to fill on everyhing) if you know what you're doing (i.e go for the top materials, trade down, or sideways and down). Guardian stuff is way much more of a grind.

 

[Fedas]

As to this point, there is one Commander on this thread who has - but she's pretty unique and most decidedly THE best Thargoid-hunter in the game.

I'd have thought that Hydra regen would be faster than the ability to inflict damage with AX weapons, but I never tried. But yes, being able to do that is a sign of a high skill.

thinking that you NEED engineering in order to fight means you're not really good at fighting yet.

Yup. Engineering makes things easier, but IMO for NPC fights it's far from necessary. For Thargoid, there's so much to learn that even starting with Guardian weapons you'll struggle at first, much more than against NPC fight. For NPC fights, I'd say using a different ship makes way more difference than super-engineering a bad ship.

I can beat any one-on-one NPC w/o using thrusters or flight assist off, in a non-engineered ship (as long as I get a choice of a ship, anyways, I'd not claim I can beat an Elite NPC Vulture in a T9). And I'm not what you'd call a dedicated player, never mind a dedicated combat player.

 

[Palaverous]

CZ NPC's lack any engineering

This is flat out wrong and instantly obvious for anyone who's ever fought any other enemy in the game, especially anyone used to doing undermining. Every single NPC in all CZs is engineered, Spec Ops just have bigger buffs than the rest. A high CZ would be doable in under 2 minutes with a pure laser boat if this where anything remotely close to true.

If you've ever fired any engineered weapon, even just lasers, at an actually unengineered enemy like the Wanted ships in NavBeacons, you know that they go up in flames in approximately two seconds or so. Even the Eagles in CZs aren't that brittle. What in the world could possibly give you this idea?

 

[Stigbob]

This is flat out wrong and instantly obvious for anyone who's ever fought any other enemy in the game, especially anyone used to doing undermining. Every single NPC in all CZs is engineered, Spec Ops just have bigger buffs than the rest. A high CZ would be doable in under 2 minutes with a pure laser boat if this where anything remotely close to true.

If you've ever fired any engineered weapon, even just lasers, at an actually unengineered enemy like the Wanted ships in NavBeacons, you know that they go up in flames in approximately two seconds or so. Even the Eagles in CZs aren't that brittle. What in the world could possibly give you this idea?

Nope, I suspect you are just not very good so they seem super tough from your perspective.

Spec ops ATR and elite pirates have engineering, no other NPC's.

 

[CMDR Dumbfries]

Haven't played in a long time and recently picked it up again. Started out in a low CZ. Everything worked out fine. Jumped into a medium CZ. Things went well for about a minute until my radar lit up like a Xmas tree and I was staring at the rebuy screen ten seconds later. I forgot you are an insignificant spec in the galaxy unless you decide to fly into a combat zone. Suddenly, you are the life of the party.

 

[Palaverous]

Nope, I suspect you are just not very good so they seem super tough from your perspective.

I'm genuinely confused as to whether you're a troll or just have an extremely unwarranted opinion of yourself. You're lying about something that's obvious to anyone who's ever shot any NPC anywhere else in the game. There is no skill gate for noticing the different results of pointing a weapon at something for a set period of time.

 

[Stigbob]

I'm genuinely confused as to whether you're a troll or just have an extremely unwarranted opinion of yourself. You're lying about something that's obvious to anyone who's ever shot any NPC anywhere else in the game. There is no skill gate for noticing the different results of pointing a weapon at something for a set period of time.

You are just wrong about it whereas I'm right, it's not a big deal.

The few types of engineered NPC's as I listed above are instantly identifiable by the weapon colours they shoot at you and the warnings you receive when they hit you, you can also spot an engineered shield when you hit it. All the others carry standard gear. CZ NPC's have military hulls off the shelf, that's how it is. Situational awareness.

 

[Palaverous]

Situational awareness.

Is this phrase just a verbal tick of yours? What in the world does situational awareness have to do with the amount of time it takes to hold a beam at a shield before it comes down?

 

[Fedas]

The few types of engineered NPC's as I listed above are instantly identifiable by the weapon colours they shoot at you and the warnings you receive when they hit you, all the others carry standard gear. CZ NPC's have military hulls off the shelf, that's how it is. Situational awareness.

That's not true, I just run into an NPC Python that was breaching my shield and putting all sorts of nice effect on me. Distress call, threat level 5.

 

[Stigbob]

Is this phrase just a verbal tick of yours? What in the world does situational awareness have to do with the amount of time it takes to hold a beam at a shield before it comes down?

It's how you know whats going on around you in the game, or don't in your case.

 

[Palaverous]

It's how you know whats going on around you in the game, or don't in your case.

So, nothing, it has nothing to do with what's being talked about.

 

[Stigbob]

So, nothing, it has nothing to do with what's being talked about.

It's one of the cornerstones of the process of gitting-gud.

 

[Macros Black]

A low CZ can be done in a un-engineered ship, it just takes longer time to wear the enemy down. I took a Krait Mk II with 3*MC's and 2*Pulse lasers which worked fine. I would like to add that this is a play style for the masochistic CMDR

 

[Stigbob]

A low CZ can be done in a un-engineered ship, it just takes longer time to wear the enemy down. I took a Krait Mk II with 3*MC's and 2*Pulse lasers which worked fine. I would like to add that this is a play style for the masochistic CMDR

Small ships are the most fun in CZ's, I bagged combat elite in a courier.