The Krait 's got espresso machine and cups! (oh it's time for a real coffee actually!
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Combat distances are ridiculous in Elite
- Thread starter AstralHawk Exo
- Start date
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I have been playing Infinity Battlescape and I have to say for such a small dev team I really love the job they did on the ship physics in that game, the bigger the ships the more they fly like bricks, and the seamless netcode for lots of players in huge battles in Infinity Battlescape is also 'very impressive'! I wish ED could be mixed elements like IB has, of course I am a open player that is why.
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It was fun in X3, tho. But that was SP.
We could add this to the never ending list of features that everyone expect (and will be mad if not included) for the New Era!
Doesn't one of the Fed ships have 2?The Krait 's got espresso machine and cups! (oh it's time for a real coffee actually!
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I was most upset when I realised they'd lightened the Krait Phantom by throwing the Espresso machine away
MY large ships do feel like they have some inertia, because I undersize my thrusters on ships like the Anaconda for this very purpose. It's the NPC large ships that whip around like they are Eagles that I ruins my combat experience (T9s and Cutters notwithstanding). And then there are the G5 player Godships that defy all manner of physics and biology (as you yourself point out). Compare this to a game like Infinity Battlescape or Space Engineers, where large ships FEEL large, and you'll see where ED is lacking in this regard.
I've done surprisingly little combat in ED since switching to PC, because I've grown bored with it, so I understand where the OP is coming from. But to be fair, ED is light years ahead of most space arcade games like Everspace, NMS, and RGO. I'm not sure the average casual gamer would want the more realistic combat system that OP yearns for, though I personally would enjoy it if implemented correctly.
"Real life" counter argument: even just in the modern age, stealth technology as detection technology are in a constant arms race. In a lot of ways, stealth is already kind of winning. It's entirely conceivable that stealth could continue to pull away. It's not that the ship's sensors are worse than 1960s Soviet aircraft, it's that stealth has become so good and ubiquitous that even the crazy-powerful future sensors struggle to pick ships up beyond short ranges. In a nutshell, the sensors are better than 1960s Soviet sensors, but the stealth tech is WAY better, and thus average detection ranges are worse.
Actual counter-argument: it's a game. There are no sensors- everything's made up. Frontier rightfully realized that if they wanted combat to be about exciting cinematic dog fights, detection and weapon ranges needed to be short. It's the same reason yaw is so slow, and the blue zone exists- they wanted dog fighting, not sniping and / or turrets in space. Unfortunately, later balance and design decisions kinda lost sight of that, and compromised the feel. Long-range weapons, comically large health pools, ships with great rotation but proportionally weak lateral thrusters, and permaboost have all but eradicated the old dog fight feel, so it's easy to forget that was the objective. Making combat ranges even longer would just exacerbate current problems plaguing combat.
Actual counter-argument: it's a game. There are no sensors- everything's made up. Frontier rightfully realized that if they wanted combat to be about exciting cinematic dog fights, detection and weapon ranges needed to be short. It's the same reason yaw is so slow, and the blue zone exists- they wanted dog fighting, not sniping and / or turrets in space. Unfortunately, later balance and design decisions kinda lost sight of that, and compromised the feel. Long-range weapons, comically large health pools, ships with great rotation but proportionally weak lateral thrusters, and permaboost have all but eradicated the old dog fight feel, so it's easy to forget that was the objective. Making combat ranges even longer would just exacerbate current problems plaguing combat.
"Because gameplay" is the obvious, short answer. But you're right for the most part. I doubt using ballistic weaponary in space would suffice over such distances, but the YT channel "Because Science" did a really good video on why you'd never see your enemy and you'd likely be boiled from the inside-out by long range lasers.... but it'd be a crap game!
Awesome!! Thanks for the reference, Stuart, thats going to get some exploration from me this weekend. I’d not heard of it before!
have you tired CQC? after all you do fly an eagle, i mean im not saying you will get a match or anything and will probably die of old age before playing a "random" death match but if you can schedule your gaming time like a doctors appointment... try CQC
Big ships turn like fighter jets because they have poweful thrusters relative to their mass and close to no friction from the surrounding void. And you can still fly FA off for more realism, but FA is a realistic technology for 3305, since we already have similar stuff today IRL.
As for the engagement range... well it's gamey, but basically this:
I greatly prefer WWI-style dogfights transposed to space over this. Even if it's not realistic.
Also, imagine the uproar of the "Hooked on the look"-crowd if we weren't able to see their paint jobs because of the fighting mechanics!
As for the engagement range... well it's gamey, but basically this:
I greatly prefer WWI-style dogfights transposed to space over this. Even if it's not realistic.
Also, imagine the uproar of the "Hooked on the look"-crowd if we weren't able to see their paint jobs because of the fighting mechanics!
We can not know the way conflict are resolved in the far future. There might be ways to deal with enemy ideas and units in ways we are unfamiliar with today.
Best way to deal with enemy activity is usually to control it without them knowing it.
Like making them think they are fighting a war they already lost.
Best way to deal with enemy activity is usually to control it without them knowing it.
Like making them think they are fighting a war they already lost.
Here we go again...
Yep, they apprently replaced it with some energy drink!Doesn't one of the Fed ships have 2?
I was most upset when I realised they'd lightened the Krait Phantom by throwing the Espresso machine away
Yes I agree that some thrusters are too much powerful.
Big ships combat should have been much more different. FDEV wants them to combat like all other ships. I would have preferred a tanked ship with multiple SLF and drones where the CMDR could decide to launch in one of the SLF or managing the combat scenario from the bridge like a strategic war game, but I understand that could be too much to be implemented in a single game.
Sensor weight is part of this whole deal, absolutely no reason for the weight of a large ship sensor to be so much more than the weight of a small ship one when they both provide very similar results.
I get why the action has to be up close for the fun, FD could allow munitions to have longer range but keep the target lock the same. These long range strikes probably wouldn't shorten kill times by much but would add to the entertainment.
TBH, as my playing time keeps shrinking, game issues are becoming just bullet points for discussion. Even this condition isn't bothering me now as much as before; I did quit playing Asteroids at some point and moved on.
I get why the action has to be up close for the fun, FD could allow munitions to have longer range but keep the target lock the same. These long range strikes probably wouldn't shorten kill times by much but would add to the entertainment.
TBH, as my playing time keeps shrinking, game issues are becoming just bullet points for discussion. Even this condition isn't bothering me now as much as before; I did quit playing Asteroids at some point and moved on.
Even worse, Newton's Laws are optional.
I love space flying in this game, but I keep combat to the absolute minimum because it ruins immersion for me. When I do engage in it, I make sure I've got enough engineering and firepower to basically have an "I win" trigger for a ship which does the job for me.
Luckily the amazing galaxy is more than enough to make up for this. Oh, and this is the only game where you can fly a Cobra mk III.
Sweeping 360 degrees would not imply a sacrifice of range. Just update rate and placement/aerodynamics.
Anyway yes, it’s stupid as anything with thrusters would be visible to half a solar system radar aside, but they don’t want gameplay of BVR missile exchanges. They want WWII dogfights so the mechanics are set that way.
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