COMBAT LOGGING solution -= EASY and WORKING =-

[Han_Zen]

A dropped connection does not mean that the network is necessarily down (as that is not the only reason that a connection can be lost without the player themself doing it).

I know. But it's not like it happens often and half an hour really does not hurt anyone.

 

[GG7]

Well over 90% of the combat logging that occurs is because a wing of FDLs interdicts a T7 or some other such non combat ship with the intention of killing it for no reason.

So until that kind of behavior is punished very very harshly, then I dont see it as being a feasible solution. Combat logging is the symptom of having an unrealistic Game environment. Fix the game first. Then punish when there is no excuse.

Pretty much. Not to mention those who are trying to complete a task or mission and a PvP encounter is the last thing they are interested in dealing with at that moment in time.

Then you have those occasional Solo players who were mode switching for missions and forgot to switch back to Solo before heading out.

But generally.... Most folks who play ED either in Open or in Solo are really not interested in your Pew Pew obsession, and look upon it as an unfortunate annoyance of playing in Open mode.

 

[XW_Ziggy]

Then the same can be said about the so called problem with combat logging can it not?

You dont move on without addressing an issue. You fix the issue. If the way that you fix the issue is not embraced or followed by your user group, you find out why and you provide a better solution. Eventually the system is rigid and unchanging. It becomes what the users want but it was guided by the build team. Its basic project management.

The one and only problem that FDEV made was that they provided a sandbox environment with 0 over site. Usually games address this issue by having an in game policing element to it. The current in game policing and punishment system is as hands off and worthless as can be while still calling it policing. If Pirates had to risk never getting their ship back and losing their entire credit balance, then they would think twice about destroying ships for no reason and focus on being an actual bad guy in the game.

That will be the only way they can keep the world still open and have it mean something. If they do not take it to the required level of risking it all as an outlaw all or nothing attitude, then they will need to add a PVP flagging system and build entire missions and story arcs around PVP.

Damn straight; Combat logging is just a symptom of a much bigger problem.
+1

 

[Sole Hunter]

yeah no...won't really work.

I have a better solution : get rid of Peer to peer.

 

[Kaocraft]

.... yet Frontier chose not to go down that route....

Well yeah. What they've chosen to do . . . Is nothing.

 

[Kaa Mchorror]

Damn straight; Combat logging is just a symptom of a much bigger problem.
+1

The problem being that the clogger hit the open button.

 

[Steve50]

The solution is very very simple

1st offence:- Warning in-game
2nd offence:- 3 day ban and email warning you this is your last chance
3rd offence:- Permanent ban and account deleted

This would stop combat logging right away and the ones that persist will be soon gone forever. Sadly FD are utterly weak and spineless when it comes to things like this so (like griefing) its shoved under the rug and forgotten about. (don't talk to me about shadow bans, that's utter hogwash and has been proved to me thus)

If FD were not so cowardly, this would have stopped being an issue long long ago. (a company like say Blizzard would have dealt with this and have no qualms about handing out permanent bans.)

 

[Kaocraft]

Then the same can be said about the so called problem with combat logging can it not?

You dont move on without addressing an issue. You fix the issue. If the way that you fix the issue is not embraced or followed by your user group, you find out why and you provide a better solution. Eventually the system is rigid and unchanging. It becomes what the users want but it was guided by the build team. Its basic project management.

The one and only problem that FDEV made was that they provided a sandbox environment with 0 over site. Usually games address this issue by having an in game policing element to it. The current in game policing and punishment system is as hands off and worthless as can be while still calling it policing. If Pirates had to risk never getting their ship back and losing their entire credit balance, then they would think twice about destroying ships for no reason and focus on being an actual bad guy in the game.

That will be the only way they can keep the world still open and have it mean something. If they do not take it to the required level of risking it all as an outlaw all or nothing attitude, then they will need to add a PVP flagging system and build entire missions and story arcs around PVP.

Combat Logging is a lynchpin issue. Your point is valid but fixing combat Logging supersedes it because none of your in-game policing systems are going to do anything if the offender can just combat log. The act of combat Logging is an exploit used to avoid consequences. Your apologia for CLing is based on the idea that reasonable people are doing it to avoid unreasonable consequences for actions being imposed on them by unreasonable people. Trying to deter jerks from acting like jerks by piling consequences onto their actions is *maybe* a good idea, but it all falls apart if said jerks are easily able to avoid said consequences by also CLing themselves. You fix CLing first, and you can build a crime and punishment system, or any number of incentives and disincentives on top of that, but not before.

 

[XW_Ziggy]

The problem being that the clogger hit the open button.

This never ending argument again?

Making the selfish and rather closed-minded presumption that Open Play is solely the property of PVP players is utterly wrong.

Here's how it's supposed to work, it's just not implemented yet - so quit whining and count yourselves lucky that you can even get away with the one-sided PVP that you can right now. If the vocal PVP minority all got their way, the game would suffer greatly in scope and I feel it would rapidly degenerate into yet-another-PVP-combat-sim, and fail to be true to the Elite franchise, let alone be worthy of the name.

An obvious danger is an advanced player with a big well-armed ship in a busy system spends their time just picking off beginners, for fun.

To understand how this will be stopped requires a little bit of understanding how real player ships will be treated slightly differently to non-player ships. Players will automatically be part of a “Pilot’s Federation” and will be identified as such, together with their ranking and name. Bounties are paid by this Federation – something that is therefore much higher for those that kill other Federation members. It will be balanced so that this cannot be used as an exploit (so a beginner killing a beginner is taken less seriously than an Elite pilot killing a beginner – it will be based on the ranking difference).

There are four separate ways we will address this:

1. The offender will very quickly get a serious price on their head (bounty) and criminal record. That price on their head will attract bounty hunters.

2. Local police or military will respond very quickly and strongly to them.

3. It will be legitimate for other players to attack them for the attractive bounty without attracting a bounty for themselves, as once there is a bounty on their head they are officially a pirate and ‘free game’ for everyone.

4. If enough players complain about the offender's behaviour in a certain time, then they will be banned from this group.

1. isn't happening yet. The "serious bounty" can be wiped easily and is about 100x too low compared to other incomes/costs in-game
2. isn't happening at all. Murderous players docking unhindered all over the bubble even in high-sec systems is the norm.
3. Fair enough, except the risk-reward balance of doing this is totally and utterly right now. 100x the bounty? That is valid CR/hour at least.
4. The anit-griefing policy is utterly toothless at the moment and in the context of this FAQ applies to griefers, not combat-loggers.

Clearly, if you oppose a working crime and punishment system, you're playing the wrong game. The fact that many PVPers exploit this lack of a functioning C&P system is lost on them, because they're too busy whining about the people who combat log. People probably combat log because you interrupt their PVE gameplay in a grossly superior ship and they know that no AI help is coming because the system isn't implemented properly yet. They know that you will not be punished for your assault or murder in any meaningful way and they know that it's very unlikely an other CMDRs will be willing to risk their own rebuys to help or to seek revenge.

Quite simply put, you're exploiting others using an exploit in the incomplete game and crying foul when they use an exploit to save their own bacon?

Wow.
How ironic.

 

[simo2003]

The most logical option (in my opinion) is to make the ship of anyone who logs during combat persist for longer and make it so that it receives damage as normal in that time. If said ship was a sitting duck for a minute or two, that would surely be more of a deterrent to combat-logging than anything else.

If you don't want to be handed a rebuy, don't play in Open. If your rebuy is too big, play a cheaper ship. It's a consequence of your choice to play that ship.

Some people might be affected by shaky internet connections and certainly it would be rubbish to lose your ship because your internet connection dropped. I'd avoid Open if that were true in my case.

 

[Stealthie]

The most logical option (in my opinion) is to make the ship of anyone who logs during combat persist for longer and make it so that it receives damage as normal in that time. If said ship was a sitting duck for a minute or two, that would surely be more of a deterrent to combat-logging than anything else.

If you don't want to be handed a rebuy, don't play in Open. If your rebuy is too big, play a cheaper ship. It's a consequence of your choice to play that ship.

Some people might be affected by shaky internet connections and certainly it would be rubbish to lose your ship because your internet connection dropped. I'd avoid Open if that were true in my case.

Would you care to take a guess at how many "the game crashed and my ship got destroyed!!!!" threads would appear here if that were the case?

Do you think it's a bigger problem for players to lose ships through no fault of their own or for players in battles to miss out on one of the many victories they're likely to achieve?

Cos, I'm thinking that the former would be the thing to be more concerned about.

 

[d3jake]

This never ending argument again?
...
Quite simply put, you're exploiting others using an exploit in the incomplete game and crying foul when they use an exploit to save their own bacon?

Wow.
How ironic.

Found the explanation I like.

I've never combat logged. Even when some superiority-complex FDL interdiected my T7 during a CG and opened fire right away, I was able to high-wake away without dying. I think a lot of the ganking of lower-ranked/PvE players would reduce dramatically if the System Authority Vessels were stronger, and could respond rapidly. One of my friends who I commonly play with told me that in the original game, if you annoyed the Sys. Auth, you'd quickly become a skid mark. The fact CMDRs can get by without reprimand seems to be more of an exploit than "OMG, I earned the ship, stop whining about dying."

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

The most logical option (in my opinion) is to make the ship of anyone who logs during combat persist for longer and make it so that it receives damage as normal in that time. If said ship was a sitting duck for a minute or two, that would surely be more of a deterrent to combat-logging than anything else.

If you don't want to be handed a rebuy, don't play in Open. If your rebuy is too big, play a cheaper ship. It's a consequence of your choice to play that ship.

Some people might be affected by shaky internet connections and certainly it would be rubbish to lose your ship because your internet connection dropped. I'd avoid Open if that were true in my case.

play your own way, blaze your own trail - except if you cant afford infinite rebuys of your current ship due to griefers, or because you wanted to play open and your isp cut out at the wrong time because that new housing estate down the road being built an idiot dug a hole and cut the fibre optic by accident.

 

[Blues]

My views on this are simple. Combat logging or save and exit during combat is cheating. If you don't want to be killed by other players then play in solo or private group.
In the past hour i have had 3 people CL on me. I recorded a couple as I'm streaming, but will Frontier do anything about it if I provide the evidence?

 

[Kerrija]

I know. But it's not like it happens often and half an hour really does not hurt anyone.

Considering I had quite a lot of random disconnects from the Server in the last weeks (also during res-hunting) this idea would add at least 2-3 hours of not being able to play at all to my free time.

And please take your "half an hour really does not hurt anyone" argument to the countless ship transfer and jumprange threads and see how well it is received when people can't pew for some amount of time but are at least able to play at all.

 

[Minonian]

The Thing about ED you can take out CQC you can take out solo and group gameplay, you can lover the rebuy prices, but the galaxy and even the bubble going to remain too wast to be the PVP ers playground. because we just can't meet often enough for this.

 

[Underhook]

So the OP idea is not a silver bullet but it might help a bit so why not do it?

 

[Minonian]

Because not everyone want to be a PVP er?

 

[Morbad]

So the OP idea is not a silver bullet but it might help a bit so why not do it?

Yeah, might help people avoid consequences for their mistakes.

Because not everyone want to be a PVP er?

I'm a 'PvPer' and lower rebuys just reduce my incentive to PvP.

Less risk for myself is less excitement and less risk for my enemies is means successfully inflicting defeat upon them is less of a deterrent.

 

[Minonian]

Yeah, might help people avoid consequences for their mistakes.



I'm a 'PvPer' and lower rebuys just reduce my incentive to PvP.

Less risk for myself is less excitement and less risk for my enemies is means successfully inflicting defeat upon them is less of a deterrent.

Yeah, you like the risk, and i like the fight itself. And although i don't care if i lose or win, but i always going after victory, You don't understand this right?
You don't have to! but let's just say, there are also an excitement in FPS es rank table. To get the first place is a motivation enough.

And also? i heard there will be some changes in 2.3 halved rebuy cost, and doubled bounties in case of aggression against other players. Because you see? overly aggressive PVP-ing just taking away the more peaceful players will to play. Which means in the end by ganking you just reduce the number of playmates. Is that good to you? I don't think so!

In the other hand? less risk means the less aggressive, more timid players can take on you, instead of running scared.