Compromised Nav Beacons and System Influence....

[AirBear]

My faction is trying to expand from a small system with just a population of 21,500. Yesterday we were over 60%. We did a number of influence missions yesterday, plus turned in over 20M in bounties for our faction along with a much smaller amount for the other factions. We did bounty hunting in the Compromised Nav Beacon. Yet after the tick today we dropped over 4%. AFAIK no other player factions are in our area. Does the compromised Nav Beacon cause our influence to decrease? We're thinking maybe turn in only bounties for our faction, turn the rest in at Interstellar Factors.

Thanks!

 

[Jmanis]

My faction is trying to expand from a small system with just a population of 21,500. Yesterday we were over 60%. We did a number of influence missions yesterday, plus turned in over 20M in bounties for our faction along with a much smaller amount for the other factions. We did bounty hunting in the Compromised Nav Beacon. Yet after the tick today we dropped over 4%. AFAIK no other player factions are in our area. Does the compromised Nav Beacon cause our influence to decrease? We're thinking maybe turn in only bounties for our faction, turn the rest in at Interstellar Factors.

Thanks!

Doing work for a faction is not linear.

Given two factions, one on 75% and one on 25%, a single mission done for the 25% faction will need three done for the 75% faction to recover from any losses, so by redeeming small amounts for the other factions, you've shot yourself in the foot.

 

[AirBear]

That would explain it. Thanks! I think even turning bounties in at I.F. or Redemption Office on our Carriers would have the same effect? So we just need to sit on them until the expansion is triggered?

 

[Jmanis]

That would explain it. Thanks! I think even turning bounties in at I.F. or Redemption Office on our Carriers would have the same effect? So we just need to sit on them until the expansion is triggered?

Nah, turning in at IF is fine. FCs i don't know about though

 

[Ian Doncaster]

That would explain it. Thanks! I think even turning bounties in at I.F. or Redemption Office on our Carriers would have the same effect? So we just need to sit on them until the expansion is triggered?

Essentially the rules are:
1) bounties give influence in the system they're turned in, not the system they're collected
2) FC redemption has half the influence effect only

So:
- IFs are perfectly safe to turn in unwanted bounties to, as they never take bounties which the regular contact service at the same station wants (which means you can't hand them in to an IF in your own system at all)
- Redemption Offices are safe if the carrier isn't in your system to turn in unwanted bounties ... and should almost [1] never be used to turn in ones for your own faction.

[1] If you've ended up hostile with every station owner in the system, it's better than nothing. But that's a really rare case.

 

[goemon]

That would explain it. Thanks! I think even turning bounties in at I.F. or Redemption Office on our Carriers would have the same effect? So we just need to sit on them until the expansion is triggered?

Nah, turning in at IF is fine. FCs i don't know about though

IF can only be used, if faction is not present in system.
FCs redemption office works as IF, if faction is not present in system (= no influence effect).
FCs redemption office works as Authority Contact, if faction is present in system (= influence effect).

additional to the same bounty value having more effect for a lower influence faction, than for a higher influence faction, bounty values influence effect isn't linear as well. you get around 50% for a 1 mio redeem of what you get for a 8 mio redeem. in combination redeeming smaller bounties for lower influence faction is a way to nuke high influence factions influence, as you have experienced most probably.

 

[Jmanis]

IF can only be used, if faction is not present in system.
FCs redemption office works as IF, if faction is not present in system (= no influence effect).
FCs redemption office works as Authority Contact, if faction is present in system (= influence effect).

Yeh, I took the IF/faction presence as implicit.

Good to know the FC Redemption office works as both.

 

[goemon]

2) FC redemption has half the influence effect only

any tests on that to share? is that meant as a general statement for bounty redeem values via redemption office between 20k and 8 mio?

and: half of the influence effect before or after redemption office tax of bounties redeemed?
e.g.
2,66 mio redeemed via redemption office are 2 mio payout, and has the same effect as 1 mio via authority contact
or
2 mio via redemption office has the same effect as 1 mio via authority contact ?

 

[Ian Doncaster]

any tests on that to share? is that meant as a general statement for bounty redeem values via redemption office between 20k and 8 mio?

Not mine, no - this is from Communist research.

From their graph it seems to be consistent across all sizes of redeem. I can't remember for certain if it was before or after the redemption office's cut, but I think before.

 

[goemon]

Not mine, no - this is from Communist research.

From their graph it seems to be consistent across all sizes of redeem. I can't remember for certain if it was before or after the redemption office's cut, but I think before.

okay, gonna try to reproduce. my gut feeling says that statement might only be true for values, where the redemption office cut will reduce effectivity for 50% (e.g. reducing 100k to 66k redeem by redemption ofice cut will reduce effect for 50%, but 1,3 mio vs.1 mio should not reduce effectivity 50% - if there isn't really a redemption office modifier in place). will take a few days! ty!

 

[AirBear]

We did numerous Influence +++ to +++++ missions yesterday after the tick, plus turned in over 5M in bounties for only our faction, the rest we held onto. Result? Nada. We stayed at 56.8%, unchanged from the day prior. I think Pirate Attacks are holding us back, those were mentioned in the news update. It's time to focus on our home system where we're in the high 50's. A nearby system we want to get into has a faction in retreat, there are no other openings within 20LY so to expand we'd have to do an invasion if I understand the BGS correctly. The home system is large but I've seen our influence numbers move 1.5 to 2% per day.

 

[goemon]

2) FC redemption has half the influence effect only

this is from Communist research.

From their graph it seems to be consistent across all sizes of redeem. I can't remember for certain if it was before or after the redemption office's cut, but I think before.

so, i went to test it, and there is no reduction of "half the influence" to see by testing - the influence effect follows closely what you get for redeeming the same total value minus 25% redemption office deduction (= you get for 1,3 mio via FC, what you get for 1 Mio via station).

i guess the table you saw was drawn from low day-to-day bounty values (pre bounty buff) - as pre bounty buff 2,6 mio would have been a full haz res session for me. as influence effect of bounties is not linear, below a certain threshold (somewhere around <350k) the 25% payout reduction might act as roundabout 50% influence less - or even more.

more in that other thread:

How does redeeming via a Fleetcarriers Redemption Office affect Influence gain?

As the question plopped up in another thread, i went and tested redeems via a FC's Redemption Office. I redeemed for only 1 Faction per system 1,3 Mio (1 Mio after 25% Redemtion Office Deduction), 2 Mio (1,5 Mio after 25% Redemtion Office Deduction) and 2,6 Mio to compare with the numbers gathered previously here.

Influence gain is what you'd gain for the same bounty value - only after Redemption Office 25% deduction is applied.

fig. 7

fig. 8

fig. 9

How to test:
- redeem 1 Bounty of 1,3 Mio via FC Redemption Office. Next tick redeem 1 Mio at station and compare.

As before i have not fired my deadly crew, so that cut is still the same - plus any of the caveeats described as well before.

That means: if you are in the steep zone of figure 3 with your total redeems for a faction - somewhere below 350k-1 Mio, you might want to use a station for a faction you want to push, as the 25% cut has more severe effects. Once you start redeeming millions, the effect of redeeming via FC instead of via station will be not really noticeable.

 

[AirBear]

Thanks for all the info folks. We had to give up on the small system with the Comp Nav Beacon, could not overcome the pirate activity. There's only 2 of us in my Squadron that play almost everyday, the rest are maybe 2-3 hours per week if that. We went to another system we had over 50% influence at and did a test over 2 days, we were able to boost the influence 5-7% per day up to the mid 60's. We stopped because we need to make an opening at the system we want to expand to. The AI faction there that was in retreat had it rescinded after their influence rose back up. We're now doing missions for the faction just below them in order to trigger a war and hopefully get them into retreat again. Then we'll go back to our small system and do a bunch of influence missions to trigger an expansion. There are no systems within 20LY that have less than 7 factions so if we don't do it this way we'll wind up with an invasion into some random system we probably won't want.