Hardware & Technical Computer Build to run Elite Dangerous

[Perseus]

I need a little advice guys.
I've finished building my new machine and I want to turn it on for the first time. I've connected everything up but I don't know if I first need to configure the BIOS independently of the entire system. Or, is it ok if I just turn it on, install windows and configure the entire system later.
This is my first build so I'm worried that I'm making some idiotic mistake. I'd really appreciate any advice (other than "Why don't you just power up and see what happens").
What should I do first?

 

[rooty]

Laptop

I'll be needing a laptop - not been a PC gamer since the original playstation came out and due to circumstances (wife and kids) sitting at a desktop ignoring everyone/everything isn't going to be good for family harmony.

Would something like the MSI GE70 2OE-238UK i7-4700MQ 8GB 1TB 17.3" NVIDIA GTX 765M Win8 64-bit be ok?

I don't want to spend more than a grand (GBP) and as I'm not in until beta can wait until the sales after Christmas.

 

[Faerie]

I need a little advice guys.
I've finished building my new machine and I want to turn it on for the first time. I've connected everything up but I don't know if I first need to configure the BIOS independently of the entire system. Or, is it ok if I just turn it on, install windows and configure the entire system later.
This is my first build so I'm worried that I'm making some idiotic mistake. I'd really appreciate any advice (other than "Why don't you just power up and see what happens").
Why should I do first?

Hi Perseus.
Yes, you should configure the BIOS immediately after first switch-on & before installing anything.
The machine *should* run with the BIOS defaults, but it will almost certainly not be the optimum & you may encounter unexpected problems later.
The defaults for the CPU, mainboard, & memory will probably be fine, but you do need to check the configurations for your hard drive (AHCI or IDE mode) are correct, & that things like legacy USB & USB3 support are enabled.
The BIOS is a pretty complicated thing & unique to each model of mainboard, so I can't give you specific information, but I suggest you read the BIOS section of the mainboard handbook & try to understand which features you may need to configure.

 

[Pyros]

So 1866mhz is overkill if gaming is the focus?

I'm looking at this because it's a bit cheaper than the full size RAM sticks - does 'low profile' RAM have any drawbacks?

http://www.ebuyer.com/274035-corsair-8gb-ddr3-1600mhz-low-profile-vengeance-memory-cml8gx3m2a1600c9

No, 1866 is the "sweet spot" for Haswell, as it has shown to be better than 1600. From there it is diminishing returns, but depends also on price difference.

As I saw a 2400 Kit (Trident X) just a bit more expensive than the 1866, bought those instead.

Low profile RAM usually doesn't have any drawback (except increased price for same performance) with the advantage of being more compatible in terms of CPU coolers.

 

[Pyros]

I need a little advice guys.
I've finished building my new machine and I want to turn it on for the first time. I've connected everything up but I don't know if I first need to configure the BIOS independently of the entire system. Or, is it ok if I just turn it on, install windows and configure the entire system later.
This is my first build so I'm worried that I'm making some idiotic mistake. I'd really appreciate any advice (other than "Why don't you just power up and see what happens").
Why should I do first?

Out of the top of my head, the only BIOS parameter that can be a hassle to change afterwards is the SSD access mode (IDE or AHCI) as it requires (or used to require... not sure anymore) a reformat.
So, except system storage (and boot disk to get windows install up and running) everything else can be set or changed afterwards, as long as the system is stable for boot.

 

[Memnoch]

Out of the top of my head, the only BIOS parameter that can be a hassle to change afterwards is the SSD access mode (IDE or AHCI) as it requires (or used to require... not sure anymore) a reformat.

No, you can get around that quite easily but you need to make damn sure you have the right driver. Typically it would be your "F6" driver i.e. the one you would provide to the OS at installation time.

Some people suggest doing this in Safe Mode but I never bother with this.

1. Go into Device Manager and locate the drive controller.
2. Right click on the driver and go to Properties/Driver/Update Driver/Browse my computer for driver software/Let me Pick/Have disk (The wording here may vary depending on OS. This is Windows 7).
3. Pick the folder where you have the correct driver and select that folder.
4. A list should appear showing the drivers you can choose. You want the one that probably has 'AHCI' in its name.

If it is successful Windows should blue screen, but this is okay! What you do now is go into the BIOS and turn on the AHCI mode. It should now boot normally. I say should because if you mess up steps 3 and 4 and pick the wrong driver it typicaly won't boot at all at this point, not into Safe Mode. I have done this from time to time with Dell machines because it is well understood which drivers are needed and having multiple machines to hand makes it even easier! But this method does work and no rebuild is necessary.

 

[Pyros]

No, you can get around that quite easily but you need to make damn sure you have the right driver. Typically it would be your "F6" driver i.e. the one you would provide to the OS at installation time.

Some people suggest doing this in Safe Mode but I never bother with this.

1. Go into Device Manager and locate the drive controller.
2. Right click on the driver and go to Properties/Driver/Update Driver/Browse my computer for driver software/Let me Pick/Have disk (The wording here may vary depending on OS. This is Windows 7).
3. Pick the folder where you have the correct driver and select that folder.
4. A list should appear showing the drivers you can choose. You want the one that probably has 'AHCI' in its name.

If it is successful Windows should blue screen, but this is okay! What you do now is go into the BIOS and turn on the AHCI mode. It should now boot normally. I say should because if you mess up steps 3 and 4 and pick the wrong driver it typicaly won't boot at all at this point, not into Safe Mode. I have done this from time to time with Dell machines because it is well understood which drivers are needed and having multiple machines to hand makes it even easier! But this method does work and no rebuild is necessary.

So it can be a hassle to change afterwards .. which was my point - btw, thanks for the info!

 

[The Space Pirate]

No, 1866 is the "sweet spot" for Haswell, as it has shown to be better than 1600. From there it is diminishing returns, but depends also on price difference.

As I saw a 2400 Kit (Trident X) just a bit more expensive than the 1866, bought those instead.

Low profile RAM usually doesn't have any drawback (except increased price for same performance) with the advantage of being more compatible in terms of CPU coolers.

Ah what the hell. I only do these full overhaul upgrades every five years or so, why not shell out a few quid more for the best?

 

[Memnoch]

So it can be a hassle to change afterwards .. which was my point - btw, thanks for the info!

In my experience it will be flat out broken. To be able to change the drive controller drivers you need to get into the OS. If you mess it up by accidentally picking the wrong drivers, and the method I describe will not hold your hand in any way as you are overriding and ignoring what Windows is telling you i.e. the drivers you have chosen are not for this hardware, the driver files and the registry keys will be changed to reflect this. The system won't be able to boot again to repair this. Unless you are very good at identifying the keys responsible and using a recovery/locksmith type disk, or were careful to create a restore point and have a way of accessing this functionality outside the OS, you are in a data recovery situation then.

But in any case, the small amount of difference you would get for game like Elite: Dangerous is not worth the risk and I am sure the ATA drivers will work nicely with it. There, back on topic! <wipes brow and hopes no one noticed>

 

[norrishd833]

Advice

Hello! I am seeking your collective advice

Background: playing Elite since mid-80s on BBC and Spectrum, boxed copy of the original safely in a drawer. Last time I built a PC to spec was for Half Life 2. After years of having too little time to do much more than twitch-game on consoles, I'm now tempted back to a 'proper' PC purely by ED and can foresee much of 2014 disappearing into hyperspace...

However, I've really tuned out of the whole AMD vs Intel, GeForce vs Radeon debates and have no idea what is now considered 'optimal' and what represents the 'affordable compromise'.

I really can't be bothered to build my own rig from components again and take on board others' points above about vendor warranties etc. So, looking at various site (Overclockers has a semi-useful 'we'll build it for you' bit), it seems that if I want something that will a) make ED run like a dream on Day1 and b) still boot in what appears to be my PC refresh cycle of 7 years (!), I need something like;

i7 4770k 3.5Mhz
16Gb DDR3 (32Gb?)
3 of 4 GB GPU - this bit is the most confusing part for me
Decent-ish size SSD (250Gb seems livable whilst vaguely affordable)

Are these assumptions valid? Any advice on the Motherboard-sized elephant in the room also gratefully received.

 

[Zieman]

i7 4770k 3.5Mhz
16Gb DDR3 (32Gb?)
3 of 4 GB GPU - this bit is the most confusing part for me
Decent-ish size SSD (250Gb seems livable whilst vaguely affordable)

i5 4670k or i7 4770k, the latter if you think you're going to need the grunt outside gaming too.
16GB DDR3 1600MHz is fine, and easily upgraded later if you take 2 8Gb sticks.
GPU depends on your budget. Go for GTX 760 (nVidia) or R9 280 (AMD) to stay on 'sensible' level of costs, of course more grunt = more $$ / ££ / €€. Be sure to have 2- or 3-fan cooling for the GPU, helps keeping the heat (AND noise) down (MSI TwinFrozr / ASUS DC2OC / Gigabyte etc.).

 

[Squicker]

i7 4770k 3.5Mhz
16Gb DDR3 (32Gb?)
3 of 4 GB GPU - this bit is the most confusing part for me
Decent-ish size SSD (250Gb seems livable whilst vaguely affordable)

Are these assumptions valid? Any advice on the Motherboard-sized elephant in the room also gratefully received.

I'd get a Core i5 if you are purely gaming, 4670K is the one.
The best GPU you can get your greasy hands on right now is the GTX780Ti, I have a GTX780 and it will run anything I chuck at it, I'd have got the Ti if it were out when I bought. But the AMD cards, I think the r9 290(x) is the one, they are looking very good indeed. I have read a few people say they are loud, my 780 is totally silent, but who really cares about fan noise anyway?

I have a 512GB SSD in my laptop as it's the only local disk but in my desktop I have a 256GB SSD for core apps (including games I play regularly) and TSRs (Apps that run on boot such as Skydrive, backup agents etc - speeds up startup) then a 2TB normal 7200RPM drive for other apps and games. I bought 100GB of Dropbox storage and I have probably about 250GB of Office 365 cloud storage via my business, plus a NAS, so my direct attached storage needs are very low. The reason I detail that is to emphasise that the world is changing: small very fast local disks complemented by very large & cheap centralised storage is the way it is going for even domestic users: most people I know now have a NAS or a media PC they stream from, plus some form of at least free cloud storage for crucial things like photos and documents.

So, to cut a long story short(!) yes get a 256 SSD (128 is pointless) then slower second tier storage, probably a second 7200RPM hard drive of reasonable size, or, get a NAS and use it for home entertainment also if you are feeling flush! We all have the option of ever-increasing amounts of cloud storage, often free but certainly very cheap, for data storage.

A Z87 motherboard chipset allows SLI (two video cards) and H87 does not. If I were getting a mobo now I'd consider this: http://www.aria.co.uk/Products/Comp...Socket+1150)+ATX+Motherboard+?productId=55798

RAM? 8GB is minimum really but as it's so cheap now you could plump for 16GB. I use 1833GHz RAM, you can go up to 2400GHz, but the law of diminishing returns kicks in over 1833. If you are purely gaming 32GB would be superfluous right now.

 

[jamieboo]

At the moment I have an AMD HD5850 GPU which may struggle a little bit, so I'm hoping to upgrade.
Do you reckon I should get a new one in the post christmas sales? Or wait the couple of months til my beta access arrives - taking advantage of the fact that prices always drop with time.
Post xmas sale discounts vs prices drop over 2 or 3 months?
Which of these options do you reckon might yield a better deal?

 

[Squicker]

At the moment I have an AMD HD5850 GPU which may struggle a little bit, so I'm hoping to upgrade.
Do you reckon I should get a new one in the post christmas sales? Or wait the couple of months til my beta access arrives - taking advantage of the fact that prices always drop with time.
Post xmas sale discounts vs prices drop over 2 or 3 months?
Which of these options do you reckon might yield a better deal?

I always think that post XMas sales for tech stuff are a bit of a scam, in that the prices are so low anyway, what else can they squeeze out of a margin?

So, I'd personally wait until the last minute and get a new card. I was kicking myself that I bought a GTX780 when the 780Ti came out two months later, say.

 

[norrishd833]

Thanks everyone, very helpful stuff! Merry Christmas

 

[Abysinth]

I always think that post XMas sales for tech stuff are a bit of a scam, in that the prices are so low anyway, what else can they squeeze out of a margin?

So, I'd personally wait until the last minute and get a new card. I was kicking myself that I bought a GTX780 when the 780Ti came out two months later, say.

In the past when people have asked me about digital cameras my advice has been "wait as long as you can, spend as much as you can safely afford".

Having watched Tech prices, I think the same advice applies. Sometimes 'sale' prices are merely highlighting their normal prices...

 

[Gully]

Self-build a new rig or buy it ready assembled?

Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere.

I will definitely need a new rig for my private beta next year (only have an iMac with enthusiastic but ultimately optimistic graphic capabilities).

I have taken a great interest in the "Rig to run Elite" thread where I can divine the optimum setup for a self-build PC easily. And the enthusiasm for self-building in there is amazing and I would love to give it a go as amateur...

...but when I see the Chillblast Fusion Stealth:

http://www.chillblast.com/pconf.php?productid=18769

Basically priced about the same as a self build with their 2 yr guarantee, soak testing and expertise and backup it's so hard to consider the DIY option as there is little gain for perhaps significant risk.

Can anyone give me a good reason to go to self-build route? (looks far more interesting)

 

[avow555]

At the moment I have an AMD HD5850 GPU which may struggle a little bit, so I'm hoping to upgrade.
Do you reckon I should get a new one in the post christmas sales? Or wait the couple of months til my beta access arrives - taking advantage of the fact that prices always drop with time.
Post xmas sale discounts vs prices drop over 2 or 3 months?
Which of these options do you reckon might yield a better deal?

In a similar position with a Radeon HD5870 sitting in my PC, so I bought today a Radeon HD 7970 DD Edition 3GB GDDR5 although I will ultimately be building a complete new machine next year as my old system has just passed it's 5th year.
I do suspect that Elite Dangerous isn't going to be the power craving software that some people on this forum seem to imply, after all some dude had the Alpha running on a netbook!
Wait till Beta and see how it runs.

 

[avow555]

Best time to buy tech is after one of the big boys (AMD Intel Nvidia) releases a new gadget which subsequently reshuffles the prices.
Recently we had the AMD Radeon R9 290 out so the gfx card market is going to shuffle around and hopefully a purchase recently out of reach will suddenly be within your budget

 

[Yaffle]

Can anyone give me a good reason to go to self-build route? (looks far more interesting)

Self-build is fun, in the same way that building a kit car is fun. BUT if getting cuts off hidden parts of a case and trying to work out which way around to insert a molex concern you (hint, it's asymmetric, you can't), then just buy ready made. Sometimes warranties for individual parts can be difficult to resolve if the blame can be pinned on you for being a klutz during installing.
My rig is a water-cooled thing, which works well, is very quiet and I enjoyed making it. Except for one small thing, it wouldn't boot initially with no error code because one gfx card backing heat sink caused a short. After draining, dissembling, and spending days testing each bit I figured it out. Days I will never get back. Despite that, as and when I come to upgrade I will self-build again.
There is also no fear in opening the case to get the dust bunnies out, add more RAM etc etc as you know where it all is, and there will be no weird propriety/torx sealed screws holding it together, twisting which will void your warranty. Mentioning no names there, but Apple may cross your mind.
I've bought components from Chillblast before, no issues at all with the company from me, would use again. Helpful even with one thing that was DOA.