Hardware & Technical Computer Build to run Elite Dangerous

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which both could mean that the current GPUs could last longer since they are not needing to drive such high resolutions.

Do you happen to know if the Rift itself renders the two images required for 3D, or the GPU?

EDIT, logically it must be the GPU, to keep the cost of the OR down. That increases demand on the GPU in itself.

I shall definitely be getting an OR when commercially available. I already have 3DVision 2, so this is the next logical step for me.
 
Do you happen to know if the Rift itself renders the two images required for 3D, or the GPU?

EDIT, logically it must be the GPU, to keep the cost of the OR down. That increases demand on the GPU in itself.

I shall definitely be getting an OR when commercially available. I already have 3DVision 2, so this is the next logical step for me.

If the consumer version in 2014 is 1080p resolution then the current generation of GPUs is more than sufficient to drive the OR. There are suggestions that OR will go for higher than 1080p however I personally see that as 2015 or more likely 2016.

From a profitability perspective I think they will sell a lot of 1080p at ~$300 price point... they can then launch a higher resolution one 12+ months later and get a lot of upgrade buyers etc... then repeat, repeat etc.

If they launch the 1080p consumer version in Q4 2014 (in time for Christmas) then I think that gives them plenty more time e.g. Q4 2015 to get a more cost effective and better performing higher resolution.

Just my thoughts. I don't have OR yet as am waiting for the HD Developer version.

Commander Wombat
 
If you are tight on a budget then also consider going second hand on the motherboard/CPU - although there are risks it can be a good option. There will be quite a few people upgrading from Phenom II 955+ CPUs which to be honest are more than fine to play Elite on even at high settings.

To give you an idea my current rig is playing Elite at 2560x1600 resolution on max settings without issues. My hardware is:

  • Motherboard - Gigabyte GA-890FXA-UD5 - This model is actually overkill unless you are going to CrossFire your GPUs
  • RAM - 16GB G.Skill F3-12800CL9-4GBRL - 16GB is overkill, I only have it as I got a good deal in a sale and I also run VM machines which benefit.
  • CPU - AMD Phenom II X4 965 - I don't overclock it as so far there has been no need to on ED.
  • GPU - AMD Radeon HD 7970 3GB - I don't overclock it as so far there has been no need to on ED.
  • SSD - OCZ Agility2 128GB
  • Case - Corsair 650D - I see a case as an investment since they typically last much longer than the CPU/Motherboard/GPU
  • PSU - Seasonsic M12D - I see the PSU as an investment since they typically last much longer than the CPU/Motherboard/GPU
  • Cooling - Antec 620 water cooler for the CPU

You can get a lot of PC for the money these days, the choices are almost overwhelming..

I would however also recommend waiting until the last minute before upgrading. The Radeon 270/280/289 graphics cards have gone up in price due to availability issues and Intel are likely to be release updated CPUs and/or chipsets in Q2/Q3. Assuming ED is formally released in Q2 you could find you can save money or get a better performing rig by waiting a bit longer. There will also be more clarity over which motherboard sockets are likely to have a longer life....

Commander Wombat
 
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Hey Ab,

Watching a number of the 'how to' vids on Youtube helped enormously, - happy to post here also if people find it useful.

Hey Kemo, Wombat and Faerie etc

thanks for the replies guys, I was so moving away from the thought of building my own, but reading your post and the fact that I can choose and be sure what goes in has certainly been a persuasive argument.

I'm going to look into seeing if someone close by can help hold my hand through the process. But in the event I do feel confident enough to build, no doubt yourself, Faerie and Wombats excellent advice will be my first port of call. It might be unnecessary, given the way that you tube provides so much help, but I'd rather know what I was getting into before hand.

I think when the time comes to put my components together I'll be back to check things over here in any case to make sure it all scans well and I don't go wrong then hopefully, as you say it should be easy. I hate the idea of parting with hard earned cash to do something I'd actually prefer to do myself, provided I can be confident as you say to get it done properly.

Thanks again guys

Ab
 
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Hey Kemo, Wombat and Faerie etc

thanks for the replies guys, I was so moving away from the thought of building my own, but reading your post and the fact that I can choose and be sure what goes in has certainly been a persuasive argument.

I'm going to look into seeing if someone close by can help hold my hand through the process. But in the event I do feel confident enough to build, no doubt yourself, Faerie and Wombats excellent advice will be my first port of call. It might be unnecessary, given the way that you tube provides so much help, but I'd rather know what I was getting into before hand.

I think when the time comes to put my components together I'll be back to check things over here in any case to make sure it all scans well and I don't go wrong then hopefully, as you say it should be easy. I hate the idea of parting with hard earned cash to do something I'd actually prefer to do myself, provided I can be confident as you say to get it done properly.

Thanks again guys

Ab

Remember when you have a better idea of what components you will be getting then you can always read the PDF manual before buying to see what the instructions say.

e.g.
Or for a Gigabyte motherboard: http://download.gigabyte.eu/FileList/Manual/mb_manual_ga-z87x-ud3h_e.pdf Go to page 13 (Section 1.3 Installing the CPU and CPU Cooler)

or if you were going for the Asus Z87 Pro socket 1150 motherboard I mentioned in one of my earlier posts... the manual is: http://dlcdnet.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/LGA1150/Z87-PRO/E7832_Z87-PRO.pdf Go to page 62 (Section 2.1 Basic Installation) and you can see what it says. Maybe not the best instructions but useful to take a look through.

Commander Wombat
 
Here is a link to a good guide to building your own PC:

http://techreport.com/review/23624/how-to-build-a-pc-the-tech-report-guide

A good read and they have a video, well worth watching. They also having a buying guide for all types of builds for different price points. As you will see they have 2 configs for each. A suggested one and an alternate configuration. I at times prefer the alternate suggestions or mix and match. The point is it is a very good starting point. The latest guide is here.

http://techreport.com/review/25743/tr-christmas-2013-system-guide

I was asked about the duel fans on the Hyper 212 Evo, it was a 120 mm fan I bought one from Cooler Master who makes the 212 Evo here is a link to the fan I bought and am using:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103069

I originally used just the one fan blowing into the heat sink towards the back of the case where there is an exhaust fan, the 2nd fan is on opposite side of the push fan and set to pull the heat out and towards the exhaust fan now I use 2. My cpu with a modest overclock to 4.2 (Intel 4770K) run cool even under gaming conditions.

I saw someone suggest water cooling and if you plan to highly overclock it helps, but if only a moderate overclock as I have done, you can save some money using the 212 Evo, it works really well for me, and very easy to install. You can google and see some video's of people installing them. The Hyper 212 Plus or the newer 212 Evo install the same way so just find a video on Hyper 212 and your good to go.

My biggest headache for building a new PC is finding a case I like. I settled on the Corsair 600T. Best case I ever worked on, and so many routing holes it is also the cleanest build I ever did. Plenty of room for any video card, hard drive trays are movable and comes with enough fans but room for more if you want them. Also the easiest case to open and close I ever used, no sliding it in, you line it up with tabs and push closed. Simple and tool less.

Good Luck and enjoy the build, it isn't hard and the only tool you need is a Philips head screw driver.

I saw the Asus Z87-Pro suggested, it is an excellent motherboard, but to save a few bucks if you don't need the wireless I went with the Z87-Plus, basically the same board without wireless, but does use the Intel NIC card and the same number of SATA ports as the Pro. Either one is an excellent choice.

Calebe
 
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This. :)
Choosing your own components means you get exactly what you need & not someone else's approximation of what you need. And beware of buying any pre-built system if the supplier doesn't give a brand & model name for *every* component, because I've seen supposedly high-performance machines that had only the stock cooler, or were fitted with memory sticks from the bargain bin. There's not much margin in building computers, so there's a motive to cut corners & reduce costs. Alternatively, you can expect to pay a premium for a machine that's properly specced & built, if only because the builder has to earn a living.



When I built my current computer in 2010 I deliberately chose the i5 2500K over the i7 because with a decent overclock it would give me 95% of the i7's performance for about 60% of it's price.
The i7's hyperthreading may have been useful when rendering video, but the i5 (when used in conjunction with my GFX card & SSD) still manages to process & save video at around 10 minutes per gigabyte, which is quite bearable.

Everything I've read indicates that if gaming is your main focus, an i7 would be a waste of £100; I was also preparing to get an i7 before I was told that an i5 is all you need for gaming. If you're multitasking and doing video editing and so on then go for an i7.

I Agree, I was aiming for an I7, until I did lots of reading, My I5 Whoops "donkey", particularly when I've used a GELID Tranquillo CPU cooler, Means my I5 3.3Ghz, is clocked to 4.2GHz, and Playing Counterstrike GO, the 4 cores only reach about 60% utilisation with the CPU clocking upto 4.0ghz tops.

Also whatever you do, you're better off with £100 spent on say a 450W quality PSU than £35 spent on a cheap 650WPSU. I've also seen this first hand, and had to explain to my mate why his new top notch GFX card was giving poorer FPS than his old one. It comes down to sustainable power per channel of the PSU. A quality 450W may supply 450W peak down 3 channels individually and maybe 350W continuous down 3 or 4 channels, a cheap 650w will only PEAK at 650w on all channels combined and it's sustained output might be 500W over all channels ie 167W per channel on 3 channels or it might have 2 channels only. (More complicated, but that's the easiest way to explain it.)

Also a quality (asus/Gigabyte etc) nvidia GTX760 with 2GB Graphics RAM, will probably far outperform a..... errm thinking... SPARKLE GTX780 with 3GB of RAM.

Quality is just that, quality. Also the Asus and Gigabyte, will probably come with overclocking software and you'll achieve much better results.

On your case ensure airflow. A quiet high-CFM airflow at the bottom front of your case, and either a single same or higher spec at the rear + PSU or 2 x slightly less/same spec + PSU. And if possible venting/grille over your CPU/GFX from the side of the case. I've found vents over these two key positions and a negative pressure, (ie more extract fan power than intake fan power), allows cooling to be dragged in through the side vent direct to the CPU and GFX.

I could be wrong, I've only been building gaming PC's for 15 years, and done the watercooling etc, finding that air cooling is more than sufficient to compete with its extremely expensive counterpart. Although done right water cooling looks the dogs danglies.

Finally, research parts, see what others use, see what problems people have had, you may find a certain quality gfx card, doesn't work so well with a similar quality motherboard, but a different mobo from the same manufacturer, and even the same family of motherboard with different BIOS version, or other features may work well.
 
Remember when you have a better idea of what components you will be getting then you can always read the PDF manual before buying to see what the instructions say.
Commander Wombat

Excellent suggestion, would never have thought of that, but beginning to get an idea of my shopping list, this helps get me ready. Thanks Commander W.


Here is a link to a good guide to building your own PC:

And thanks for joining in with that Calebe, shall get some time this week to sit and read/watch all this.

Thanks guys.

Ab
 
I could be wrong, I've only been building gaming PC's for 15 years, and done the watercooling etc, finding that air cooling is more than sufficient to compete with its extremely expensive counterpart. Although done right water cooling looks the dogs danglies.

I would have to add to this statement that it depends on your ambient room temperature. Pumping air of 35 Deg. back onto a heat sink doesn't have much effect.
 
True in both cases. If you're pumping 35 degrees air over the sink, you're also pumping 35 degrees air over your watercooling radiator, so either way the ambient cooling temp is 35.

You could go for refrigerated cooling, but that then has the issue of condensation due to the cooler being a lower temp than the ambient temperature.

Best idea I've seen for watercooling, was a complicated setup, All chip's CPU/GFX/North & South Bridges, RAM, MOSFETS, and the PSU were cooled from 1 trunk feed in 3/4 inch pipe I thin it was, split into several feeds through some manifolds and y splitters. That through cooling blocks and feeding back to a single return feed into a 25l reservoir (I think it was a camping water carrier), and a water pump pushing through a large room dual convector radiator, into the cooling system. Totally silent as the pump sound was muffled by the water in the reservoir. The water was dyed, a luminous green, UV illuminated. It looked all toxic, and was rather good. Was quite a few years ago.

I think the bloke even made all the manifolds and blocks himself, so they were future proofed and chipset proofed, so he'd only have to replace the mounting brackets.
 
Hence I have a double rad, mounted push pull partly outside the case feeding a positive pressurised case. This suffices for the moment as the refrigerated system looked too complex and costly. I must add its in a HTPC case (due to space constrains) and this doesn't help too much.
Its much the same as cars and bikes now, you don't see many air-cooled models these days. Surface area seems to be the key.
 
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What should i upgrade first

I am after a bit of advice and suggestions of what I should upgrade.

I am currently running elite on high settings and it seems to run ok but I am worried about it keeping up in multiplayer or a busy system though.

I am only planning on using the PC for elite.

Is upgrading overkill and not needed?

I am a bit worried that my system is 3.5 years old and must need upgrading!

------------------
System Information
------------------
Time of this report: 12/30/2013, 18:04:38
Machine name:
Operating System: Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit (6.1, Build 7601) Service Pack 1
Language: English (Regional Setting: English)
System Manufacturer: Gigabyte Technology Co., Ltd.
System Model: P55A-UD5
BIOS: Award Modular BIOS v6.00PG
Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5 CPU 750 @ 2.67GHz (4 CPUs), ~3.8GHz
Memory: 4096MB RAM
Available OS Memory: 4092MB RAM
Page File: 1956MB used, 6224MB available
Windows Dir: C:\Windows
DirectX Version: DirectX 11
DX Setup Parameters: Not found
User DPI Setting: Using System DPI
System DPI Setting: 96 DPI (100 percent)
DWM DPI Scaling: Disabled
DxDiag Version: 6.01.7601.17514 64bit Unicode

------------
DxDiag Notes
------------
Display Tab 1: No problems found.
Sound Tab 1: No problems found.
Sound Tab 2: No problems found.
Sound Tab 3: No problems found.
Sound Tab 4: No problems found.
Sound Tab 5: No problems found.
Input Tab: No problems found.

--------------------
DirectX Debug Levels
--------------------
Direct3D: 0/4 (retail)
DirectDraw: 0/4 (retail)
DirectInput: 0/5 (retail)
DirectMusic: 0/5 (retail)
DirectPlay: 0/9 (retail)
DirectSound: 0/5 (retail)
DirectShow: 0/6 (retail)

---------------
Display Devices
---------------
Card name: ATI Radeon HD 5870
Manufacturer: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.
Chip type: AMD Radeon Graphics Processor (0x6898)
DAC type: Internal DAC(400MHz)
Device Key:

Display Memory: 2806 MB
Dedicated Memory: 1016 MB
Shared Memory: 1789 MB
Current Mode: 1920 x 1200 (32 bit) (60Hz)
Monitor Name: Dell U2410(DP)
Monitor Model: DELL U2410
Monitor Id: DELF017
Native Mode: 1920 x 1200(p) (59.950Hz)
Output Type: Displayport External


Thank you in advance for any suggestions.

Anthony
 
I am after a bit of advice and suggestions of what I should upgrade.

I am currently running elite on high settings and it seems to run ok but I am worried about it keeping up in multiplayer or a busy system though.

I am only planning on using the PC for elite.

Is upgrading overkill and not needed?

Thank you in advance for any suggestions.

Anthony
Have you run the 3DMark benchmarking software? There is a spreadsheet elsewhere on the forum where alpha testers have listed their machine specs, Firestrike score (one of the tests), and alpha performance. You could compare your score to theirs.

Also, have you tried using task manager to see the CPU usage while playing? Some people see very high CPU usage (and little GPU use); if that is the case for you, then you should upgrade your CPU.

By the way, I'm rethinking my classification of my new pc as midrange... I've been trying it on a bunch of games, including ones from this year, and it runs them all on ultra :eek:!
 
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Hence I have a double rad, mounted push pull partly outside the case feeding a positive pressurised case. This suffices for the moment as the refrigerated system looked too complex and costly. I must add its in a HTPC case (due to space constrains) and this doesn't help too much.
Its much the same as cars and bikes now, you don't see many air-cooled models these days. Surface area seems to be the key.

Bikes are certainly increasingly watercooled and fuel-injected these days, as much for emissions purposes and sound reduction as it is cooling. It's both a blessing and a curse though.

EFI is near impossible to properly work on yourself without lots of expensive and proprietary kit, and there is always at least one person at trackday who forgot to flush out their glycol before inspection. It does make it easier in hot weather, and in heavy slow traffic, where an oil/air cooled machine can quite easily overheat.

There used to be refrigerated ATX cases around, I haven't seen one for decades though. I have seen an office waterchiller used to feed a loop in a PC, fancy peltier cooling, and heard horror stories about someone attempting something with elemental mercury.

Oil immersion is too messy, putting a PC in a fridge is just a bad idea all round (poor fridge will have to work overtime to remove the PC's generated heat, and you'll never get a good seal, pump will burn out in no time).

You can make an evaporative column and make it all pretty, and have an almighty mess to clean up when the cat knocks it over.

Pre-built coolers work OK, they are all sealed and just plug and play, but adding elements to them can be quite tricky.

Probably best to just stick with air cooling unless you have lots of both money and time.
 
Further to my earlier post, have now got my hopefully ED-ready rig up and running:

CPU: Intel Core i7-920, 2666 MHz
RAM: 12GB
GFX: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 580 (1536 MB)
OS: Windows 8.1

Significantly better than the machine I had a week ago!
 
Further to my earlier post, have now got my hopefully ED-ready rig up and running:

CPU: Intel Core i7-920, 2666 MHz
RAM: 12GB
GFX: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 580 (1536 MB)
OS: Windows 8.1

Significantly better than the machine I had a week ago!
Should run E: D fine. At least the Alpha builds released so far. :)
 
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