Hardware & Technical Computer Build to run Elite Dangerous

[Memnoch]

1.5 GB GTX 660, 8 GB RAM, i7-4770; maximum settings at 1920x1080.

Well, your graphics card is probably the bottle kneck for your performance?

Agreed. That's really quite an old card, if truth be told, at least in GPU terms! The 760 would cost you another £60-70 and give you a nice little speed boost too.

http://www.hwcompare.com/14801/geforce-gtx-660-vs-geforce-gtx-760/

Jumping to the 780 means another jump of £150-200 though.

 

[Dr Wookie]

Agreed. That's really quite an old card, if truth be told, at least in GPU terms! The 760 would cost you another £60-70 and give you a nice little speed boost too.

http://www.hwcompare.com/14801/geforce-gtx-660-vs-geforce-gtx-760/

Jumping to the 780 means another jump of £150-200 though.

Given that my 660 runs everything I've thrown at it in 1920x1080 on max settings at >40 FPS (and often near 100 FPS) I'm not going to upgrade any time soon . Thanks fpr the concern though !

 

[Memnoch]

Have you tried X:Rebirth?

 

[Dr Wookie]

Have you tried X:Rebirth?

Nope ! Everything I've seen and heard about it looks pretty terrible

 

[Flavio]

1.5 GB GTX 660, 8 GB RAM, i7-4770; maximum settings at 1920x1080.

However, the settings seem to cover a broad range in power. People have managed to get good results with older machines by reducing resolution and/or detail settings. For example, here is an alpha 1.0 video at 1280x720 on low settings using my integrated graphics chip; it still looks pretty good .

Thanks for that. I was wondering if it was playable using the integrated gfx as I was hoping to spend the money on the cpu and mobo rather than having to get cheaper versions in order to get a gfx card. Hopefully I can get a gfx card later.
What frame rate do you get and how much detail can you set before it becomes unpleasant to play?

 

[Dr Wookie]

Thanks for that. I was wondering if it was playable using the integrated gfx as I was hoping to spend the money on the cpu and mobo rather than having to get cheaper versions in order to get a gfx card. Hopefully I can get a gfx card later.
What frame rate do you get and how much detail can you set before it becomes unpleasant to play?

I just tried the integrated card on alpha 1.1 factions. If I choose 1280x720 with everything maxed out I get 20-30 FPS (normally about 25 FPS). This feels fine to me, but milage may vary. A less taxing scenario (e.g. you and a sidewinder with no asteroids) is constantly >30 FPS. Messing around in asteroids gives 25-30 FPS. I would be perfectly happy playing like this; this is an alpha though, and performance may go up as well as down !

Playing 1920x1080 at max settings is more like 10-15 FPS very sluggish; changing to low gave 15-20 FPS, which is better than at max, but still not great.

 

[Flavio]

I just tried the integrated card on alpha 1.1 factions. If I choose 1280x720 with everything maxed out I get 20-30 FPS (normally about 25 FPS). This feels fine to me, but milage may vary. A less taxing scenario (e.g. you and a sidewinder with no asteroids) is constantly >30 FPS. Messing around in asteroids gives 25-30 FPS. I would be perfectly happy playing like this; this is an alpha though, and performance may go up as well as down !

Playing 1920x1080 at max settings is more like 10-15 FPS very sluggish; changing to low gave 15-20 FPS, which is better than at max, but still not great.

Great news - no gfx card for me when the beta comes out.
After getting a new cpu and mobo I will save up for a monitor (14" is a bit small), then gfx card.

Thanks

 

[Arbanax]

Ok been reading up on the mother board manual but I have (and after watching a video on building your own computer) , I realise I have no idea what leads, I will need to connect and which ones I won't. For instance I appreciate I need a lead for each hard drive, but which sockets do they go in? Will any Sata drive do, or like the PCI slot for the graphics card is one slot better than another - the manual doesn't say? Yet I know that there are Sata 3 and Sata 2 drives.

I know the fans all have leads going into the mother board and indeed from the power source, however I don't know which fans should go where, other than the CPU fan, because they says where to plug it in? Also what if my case has less fans, or more? Will there be enough leads, do they come with the case and besides power are there other leads to plug in that control the fans speed etc?

Also there is mention of various leads that light the led in the front panel and leads for usb, sound etc, do these leads come with the case or do they come with the mother board. Will I know which goes where? What I mean is are they obvious to distinguish?

My worry with all these different leads, is either I'll plug in something I shouldn't, miss something I should and in either case damage something in the process. IS there any resources that make this idiot proof?

When it comes to plugging things in this is where it seems what I've seen and read is most nebulous. The manual does a good job of showing you the motherboard sockets and telling you some what what needs to be plugged where. But I've never done this before, so before I start this I want to know everything that can go wrong so I can anticipate it in advance. SO once again your help or links or videos are much appreciated.

Ab

 

[Yaffle]

It's not as bad as you fear. Most leads are asymmetric, but to go through your points...

For instance I appreciate I need a lead for each hard drive, but which sockets do they go in? Will any Sata drive do, or like the PCI slot for the graphics card is one slot better than another - the manual doesn't say? Yet I know that there are Sata 3 and Sata 2 drives.

SATA drives will work in any slot, but it's best to us the ones with the lowest number for no reason other than it's neat. SATA 3 cables are visually identical to, and backwards compatable with SATA2 cables. They are "L" shaped, so only go in one way. Likewise SATA power cables are unique to SATA and only go one way.

I know the fans all have leads going into the mother board and indeed from the power source, however I don't know which fans should go where, other than the CPU fan, because they says where to plug it in? Also what if my case has less fans, or more? Will there be enough leads, do they come with the case and besides power are there other leads to plug in that control the fans speed etc?

The CPU fan is usually marked on the motherboard, and the other fan points will be labelled. You don't have to use any (well, the m/b will shout if you don't use the CPU one, so use that). Oh, they are asymmetric too, so you will spot if they are on backwards (I did once have a fan miswired, but that's very rare). Case fans don't have to be powered via the motherboard, it's up to you. The third pin gives a bit of fan speed control which may make things quieter.
As for fan positions, well you need to think how you want the air to move through your case, then attach fans appropriately. Don't be scared to experiment.

Also there is mention of various leads that light the led in the front panel and leads for usb, sound etc, do these leads come with the case or do they come with the mother board. Will I know which goes where? What I mean is are they obvious to distinguish?

Usually the case has them, and they will be labelled both for polarity and what they do. These can be a pain to attach as they are fiddly. ASUS does a neat trick with a sort of sub-block, if you have an ASUS m/b.

My worry with all these different leads, is either I'll plug in something I shouldn't, miss something I should and in either case damage something in the process. IS there any resources that make this idiot proof?

When it comes to plugging things in this is where it seems what I've seen and read is most nebulous. The manual does a good job of showing you the motherboard sockets and telling you some what what needs to be plugged where. But I've never done this before, so before I start this I want to know everything that can go wrong so I can anticipate it in advance. SO once again your help or links or videos are much appreciated.

Ab

Most leads are unique and not symmetrical. Some old floppy ribbon cables could go either way, but I doubt you have any to worry about. The M/B power (ATX) can only go one way. The CPU power will only go one way, the graphics power will only go one way...

You can, if you try hard, damage things, but you sound cautious which reduces your risk. If you need to force something then stop. Think, check. It's a bit like Lego! If it does not fit most likely it's not meant to.

Good luck!

 

[Yaffle]

Here's a SATA cable close up -

See how the opening is a funny shape? It only goes one way.

and here for the SATA power, note the notch on the left

The fiddly LED leads etc look like this:

See, all labelled.

 

[Faerie]

@ Arbanax.
Calm down. Apart from the front panel connectors (the fiddly little things) you can't really plug anything into the wrong socket because the plugs & sockets are designed that way.

SATA - Your machine will work whichever SATA socket you use, but you will probably find that 2 of the sockets on the mainboard are a different colour to the rest. These 2 are the 6Gb/sec sockets, which are the fastest ones & most suitable for connecting an SSD. The other sockets are 3Gb/sec sockets & fine for regular hard drives or optical drives. It doesn't matter which socket you use to connect your hard drive because there's no Master/Slave drives like in the old IDE drive interface.

Fans - There will be fan headers (connectors) on the mainboard, usually labelled "SYS_FAN" & will have 3 or 4 pins. The fans will have corresponding plugs, so you can only connect to the right headers. It's a good idea to connect the exhaust fan (at the rear or top of the case) to the nearest header, likewise any other fans that you have a spare header for. I find that fan cables are often fairly short, so you may like to buy a couple of fan header extender cables if this is the case.

Front Panel Connectors - Your mainboard manual will (somewhere) contain a diagram of the Front Panel Header. All you have to do is to connect the plugs to the correct pins on the header, & as Yaffle has kindly pointed out, they are labelled. It is important to get them the right way around, & the diagram should have a '+' symbol to show you which pin the positive (usually red) wire of each connector should connect to.
I find it useful to search for the mainboard manual on the manufacturers website, then download it (normally a PDF document) & upscale the diagram so it's easier to see & understand.

Whatever you do, DON'T PANIC ! It looks complicated to you now, but if you stay calm & take things easy, you'll soon begin to understand it. And don't be afraid to ask for help - I'm sure everyone here will chip in wherever we can. If you're anywhere near me I'd be happy to turn up & build it with you.

 

[Calebe]

The main thing to always check is the power on switch cable and the reset switch if you put them in backwards the PC won't power on. So if issues just check those to be in the correct position. I would put them on first. Check the manual to be sure. On an Asus Z87-Pro and I believe every Asus board the connectors are pins 1 and 2 the reset with pin 1 being the ground. Pin 3 is missing and pins 4 and 5 are for the power switch with pin 4 being the ground.

One other things and why this is happening I have no idea, most new cases do not come with a speaker for the power on self test beep codes. No idea why an item so cheap is left off even on cases costing well over $100 but they do. I would and have bought a case speaker which is a 4 pin plug with just 2 wires a positive and a ground (positions 1 and 4 with 2 and 3 empty). I was checking the prices and $4-$5 was the average till I spotted this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA2RP0YW4962

You get 30 speakers for $6.36. This is in the states but am sure you can find something like this anywhere. Sure 30 is over kill, but I would rather 30 for a $1 or 2 more then just one, give one to anyone looking to build a new PC. A beep code is your best friend if the pc won't boot, and that single reassuring beep on your first build is just music to ones ears.

Well worth the cost, and I use one in any build I do. Splurge for one, and even if it is already together and working, get one, install it and if issues you can thank me later. It really is the cheapest item that they should never leave out but do.

Calebe

 

[portland]

Laptop running for me:

i7-3740QM @ 2.7GHz

16GB SAMSUNG 1600MHz DDR3 MEMORY (2 sticks of 8 gig)

NVIDIA GTX 680M 4GB DDR5

240GB INTEL 520 SERIES SSD

GIGABIT LAN & KILLER™ 1202 WIRELESS GAMING 802.11N

Plenty arctic mx4 on the chips.


Hopefully enough to have a fettle on decent settings.


Western Dig hard drive not a factor, as ED will be on the SSD.

 

[portland]

Oh yes, will be using a Corsair wired USB3 mouse. Sound will be through an ancient pair of Koss porta pros.

 

[Zieman]

Sound will be through an ancient pair of Koss porta pros.

Hehe, these sound pretty good for the price, I use 'em with my MP3 player & PC too.

 

[portland]

Yup, they've been great for years and are crazy cheap these days.

 

[Arbanax]

Yaffle thanks for the tips and pictures. As you can appreciate never having had to put these together, it was a nightmate beginning to wonder how I might do it.

@ Arbanax.
Whatever you do, DON'T PANIC !

Quite right Faerie, my tone wasn't panic but it was intense I give you that. I started to think about all the things I didn't know but needed to - hence the rambling nature of my queries. Anyway thanks for the reassurance and advice. Once again it helps to raise these issues, so that what might be obvious and obviously not so difficult to those in the know, I might find out ahead of a build. Thanks pal.

The main thing to always check is the power on switch cable and the reset switch

This was advice I've not heard anywhere else and as you say the sounds that were present on older computers, might be a fair warning, indication of things going to plan or not. I will have to look into this when I've been able to gather in my funds. Still some way off at present, but doing this is keeping me focused. Thanks again to all the patient knowledgeable chaps who took the time to reply.

Ta

Ab

 

[Squicker]

same speed product. Its rather like buying a brand new Apple system which has 3 year ago tec inside, some people are pretty blind.

It's not quite the same argument in the Intel\AMD CPU core stakes. For example, your AMD 8 core CPU is not actually 'true 8 core', it is a trick of terminology. There are indeed 8 'cores' in the CPU but arranged inside 4 modules, the modules are what technology architects such as myself would term cores traditionally. The AMD cores we refer to as execution units and are arranged 2 per module, and crucially they share components such as FPU, cache and memory bus.

This saves money, hence the cheaper price, but it costs performance when compared to Intel. This is why AMD is currently dead in the large enterprise market where things like high density hypervisors are demanded, they simply cannot cut it. An ESX host running Intel will absolutely annihlate an AMD host in terms of VM density, which translates to big licensing, power and support savings in the datacentre.

That said, at home, generally these weaknesses are not that noticable but single-threaded (or low thread count) apps suffer very badly compared to Intel because of the way the Windows Executive schedules threads. In fact, disabling one core in each module (in the BIOS) will improve performance no end in that scenario. MS have in fact released a patch for the Scheduler specifically to cater for this CPU architecture weakness and in Windows 8 they fully support it without a patch. That said, the AMD CPUs will still never perform as well as Intel clock for clock because the 'cores' are sharing near-line resources in each module. But, you get what you pay for and for most people I'd say that AMD have made a CPU that hits the right price point despite the architecture compromises.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Well am I the only one here using a complete AMD build?

Nope, I do too and there are others. Have a look here.

So I have a true 8 core processor.

Well.... about that 8-core processor.... I assume (dangerous, I know) that you have an FX-8??0 processor? The processor architecture is based on modules that contain two x86 (integer) cores and a shared floating point unit. More information here.

So, it's not a discrete 8-core processor in the same way that the Phenom II X6 series were discrete 6-core processors. It's not bad though and I am quite happy with my FX-8350 (and it's predecessor FX-8150 is going to end up in my son's PC soon).

 

[Squicker]

You could also say that about intel, as they do not have 8 cores, but a total of 4 with hyperthreading, gives them 8 cores... However AMD does have 8 true cores, which work on their own, as you say sharing the memory...

You can't say the same about Intel as Intel do not market 4 core with hyperthread as 8 core chips. The entire 'better than hyperthreading' argument does not stand up to scrutiny because when Intel say they have 6 cores, you really do get six discreet cores, they do not count Hyper-cores in the core count as AMD do with their execution units. To level the playing field you would actually count the AMD modules, not their execution units ('cores').

AMD are sharing cache, memory bus and FPU. Sharing the cache is probably the worst crime as a cache or its index cannot be written to by two entities (in this case execution units or ahem, 'cores' in AMD market speak) at once. So that leads to queues when both execution units try to write to a module's cache at once. This is something the Windows 7 patch for AMD attempts to resolve, instead of considering all 'cores' equal it is coded to consider all *modules* equal, thereby distributing threads based upon total module load and not core. This tells you all you need to know about how real those AMD cores are, if the OS has to be coded to work around them and consider the module as the discreet unit of thread execution, well... I rest my case.

The guy above me has touched on the fact many people consider the Phenom architecture superior due to the compromises in the new design.

I am not saying AMD are bad, for the money I think they are fine, there may even be some types of workloads they perform better at, but they are not gaming or server workloads, I am merely refuting your statement that people are blind. If you do general computing then yes, AMD is fine, and for most people this is true. If you must have the best (either psychologically or because you will use it) then it's worth spending extra on Intel and people will no doubt have examined the choices and made a non-blind decision. You can't compare it with your Apple statement, which I do consider is pretty much true.