Concerns about any upcoming Base Building

As someone who saw the ridiculous explosion of 'homes' in Ultima Online, I actually hope there is some kind of grind (effort) to product personal bases. It was so horrid that you would be running though the world, then lag out because the game was trying to load a dozen castles, of which only one of them was occupied. The rest were barriers to keep players from teleporting in to sneak into the castle.

The game economy was so broken in the beginning that every possible space to place a tent, cottage, estate or castle was quickly taken. This lead to people selling accounts for real money to acquire the otherwise non-existent virtual real-estate.

To date, FDEV has not demonstrated the ability to balance the game economy. I'd place money now that every newb just out of their sidewinders will have a planetary mega-city within a few months of the feature's release. FDEVs only advantage is that 400 billion stars means there is plenty of places for these vanity projects to spread.
You don't think that playing for a few months you should be able to achieve your goal?
 
I've been thinking of this speculation a little - in a terribly cynical way - yes, I have NMS, waiting for the VR patch to see how well (or not) it is done, as playing a spreadsheet this game is tops!

So, in cynicism, I hope Frontier does introduce destructible base building in next year's patch - along with FPS 'elite feet' too :)

Why cynical? Simply put, those who have a 'real need' for 'emergent content' can have it by the bucket-load! Players will be busy building their 'homes' which will then be attacked as 'emergent content' making them fortify/rebuild ad nauseum...

It will entertain those who really didn't want to fly about in their 'pretend spaceships' aimlessly and maybe even make the remainder of the player base a little happier as those who had been bored are now tangled into a continuing cycle around 'base building' and FPS content.

Perfect :)
 
On a curve of 24-7 grinding game players versus casual three hours per week, I would expect the grinding gamer to do it but it should be totally unrealistic for the casual to get there in a few (3-4) months. If for no other reason than well developed MMO's do not want all of their content 'consumed' by the majority of the player base before the next major release is possible.

As a casual player, I never reached any of the end game content in EverQuest in 'season' during the thirteen years that I played and I would never expect any different from Elite.

As there is no direct equivalence of end-game content in Elite except ships. Everyone knows the recent mining update (Void Opals) that you can practically grind your way to the top tier (even the rank restricted Cutter and Corvette) within a month. A casual player can get pretty close in a couple months - certainly before the next 'season'.
 
On a curve of 24-7 grinding game players versus casual three hours per week, I would expect the grinding gamer to do it but it should be totally unrealistic for the casual to get there in a few (3-4) months. If for no other reason than well developed MMO's do not want all of their content 'consumed' by the majority of the player base before the next major release is possible.
Is there much call for that for a game with no monthly subscription fee?

EDIT: Also, while money pours in now and new players can become Elite in Trade super quickly, Engineering still takes time. Data and materials are the real currency of the game as far as end-game power goes, and while there are shortcuts they still take quite a while, especially if doing multiple ships. I dunno if a base will be seen as end-game content, of course. I just hope it's fun and useful.
 
Last edited:
The idea of base building in ED should be incredibly exciting, find a lone planet out there somewhere, claim it as your own and defend your little patch of the ED galaxy! If the recent leaks are to be believed then this is a feature on its way to us and that should be a reason to be excited but I can't help but feel it will be underwhelming and I hate to say that.

FD's track record for grind, especially when it comes to materials and recipes indicates that Base Building is dead in the water already, I can't see FD releasing the update and the base modules being accessible, I fear we'll have to endure yet another grind-fest in order to build a simple shell, then get back to it to add a door, or life support, or lighting. I understand the need to craft and gather materials but I'm worried FD will again push this to the extreme and block out the causal or time-strapped player trying to get ahead, such as myself.

Is anyone else concerned about this? Anyone have any ideas on how FD should/could do this in a player-friendly way? I would love to hear your thoughts.
The worries for me are (a) like you FD, come again to the conclusion shallow grind loops and busy work - instead of actually engaging/involved/deeper mechanics - is the way to move forwards, and (b) any new development therefore ultimately just becomes another set of shallow not very well balanced bolt on mechanics, just like far too much of the past three or so years has proved to be.

eg: We end up with vehicle conflict zones we basically spawn into. So just more of the same sort of shallow self contained mechanics, now just bolted into a new facet of the game. And no true effort to actually deepen the trail of all too often unbalanced half baked stuff being left behind.
 
I am more concerned that there won't be any gamepaly reason to build a base in the first place. Say for example a base let's you set up a mining colony. Yo ucan land there on a pad and collect commodities like iron and gold. Who needs that? Even if it would be void opals, credits are utterly inflated. Furthermore I expect atleast half of the content to be delayed indefinately aka abandoned like fleet carriers for squadrons. Lastly, I also expect a mess with the netcode. They probably only test their game in singleplayer. Imagine what happens when two players set up their bases close to each other, so that a shared instance will be created. Imagine what kind of bugs this will cause. Similar to the deep core mining that's borked in multiplayer. When player A scans a rock and player B set's up a charge, you won't see any message on your HUD regarding its strength. Then, you sometimes don't even blow the rock up despite all fissures being filled with max charge explosives. This hasn't been fixed until today.

So to conclude I actually expect a meaningless piece of half-finished content where a good chunk is still missing.
And then ... what can we possibly do with them bases? Can I conquer one from another player and loot it? If I had to set up base defenses so NPCs defend it once a player attacks it in any mode, that would be cool. Similar to the current ground bases for SRVs. But no, I don't expect any meaningful gameplay .. and frankly I don't even care about new content. Actually, I fear new content as it brings another load of bugs and errors that will remain in the game for years.
We still don't have a combat logging fix despite they claimed to take it "very seriously" and we won't be getting an anti cheat software because they take cheating just as "seriously" as exploiting.

Credit and material exploit? That got fixed within an hour ...
 
I suspect the term base building could be referring to squadron controlled mega ships.
I would much rather have a movable mega ship than a fixed planetary base. A mega ship would have all the advantages of a planetary base, but it moves!

A base ship would not have to be persistent. It could be like your ship, if you leave the game, your ship leaves the game.
A base ship could look something like the ferry ship or the rescue ship, which are in the game.
The Devs would not have to create a new planetary-structure building system.

I am not in a squadron, so anything only accessible to large groups will be a disappointment to me. Just saying.
 
Have they already announced any details we can discuss and I missed it?
Of course not. People imagine stuff and then get anxious about their imagination. Its like a restaurant announcing a new dish; either you like what they are doing now and you can be cautiously optimistic, or you never liked what they did and then you can just safely ignore it. But running around yelling:"OMG OMG OMG a new dish, this is so exciting but the cook sucks dingleberries so its gonna be terrible OMG OMG OMG!" is just... yeah.

There is this sub-class of gamers that seems to oscillate between hype, anxiety, frustration and anger, can't be fun. :/
 
I would much rather have a movable mega ship than a fixed planetary base. A mega ship would have all the advantages of a planetary base, but it moves!

A base ship would not have to be persistent. It could be like your ship, if you leave the game, your ship leaves the game.
A base ship could look something like the ferry ship or the rescue ship, which are in the game.
The Devs would not have to create a new planetary-structure building system.

I am not in a squadron, so anything only accessible to large groups will be a disappointment to me. Just saying.
Indeed! And just imagine if that Fleet Carrier fed into mining mechanics to allow a group to mine more efficiently, and even set up some form of trading post where NPCs would shuttle back and forth buying the mined commodity.

Or where Fleet Carriers could facilitate fighter based missions (think CQC) against say Thargoid assets/locations (eg: fighting against Thargoid Scouts).

Or where Squadrons/Fleet Carriers could facilitate PvP gameplay so players from opposing Powers could have orchestrated tasks to fight each other (in OPEN) in an organised way to affect an outcome.


...but I think we know, what we'll most likely get is just yet more shallow self contained bolt on gameplay, resulting in yet more head scratching by us while considering what the designers are up to...

Guess we'll see in 12-18 months...
 
I am more concerned that there won't be any gamepaly reason to build a base in the first place.
You make a very good point. My only interest in a base or mega ship would be to see all my ships together. Which they could implement very easily with a bigger hanger during "Outfitting".

Q: What do people want a base for?

...beside the fun of building and owning something (which will probably be killed by the grind anyway). What practical game play reason?


EDIT: NeilF ninja answered. nice :)
 
Last edited:
...beside the fun of building and owning something (which will probably be killed by the grind anyway). What practical game play reason?
Micro transactions? ;)

But to answer your question, I really can't think of any worthwhile reason to add base building into the game. The game is about roaming around the galaxy, so who wants to put effort into building something in one location? And then what worthwhile depth/gameplay comes out of it? I really can't see Frontier adding this into the game...
 
On a curve of 24-7 grinding game players versus casual three hours per week, I would expect the grinding gamer to do it but it should be totally unrealistic for the casual to get there in a few (3-4) months. If for no other reason than well developed MMO's do not want all of their content 'consumed' by the majority of the player base before the next major release is possible.

As a casual player, I never reached any of the end game content in EverQuest in 'season' during the thirteen years that I played and I would never expect any different from Elite.

As there is no direct equivalence of end-game content in Elite except ships. Everyone knows the recent mining update (Void Opals) that you can practically grind your way to the top tier (even the rank restricted Cutter and Corvette) within a month. A casual player can get pretty close in a couple months - certainly before the next 'season'.
We had videos of 'get into a conda in 24h' years before Void Opals. And with wing missions it became a fraction of that.
 
Micro transactions? ;)

But to answer your question, I really can't think of any worthwhile reason to add base building into the game. The game is about roaming around the galaxy, so who wants to put effort into building something in one location? And then what worthwhile depth/gameplay comes out of it? I really can't see Frontier adding this into the game...
In case you missed it: piles of people have player factions, home systems and play around that idea. The game isn't 'about' what you like doing, that is just what you like doing. Other people have, like, different preferences when gaming. :p
 
In case you missed it: piles of people have player factions, home systems and play around that idea. The game isn't 'about' what you like doing, that is just what you like doing. Other people have, like, different preferences when gaming. :p
Fair point...

But I still don't see much gameplay worth/depth being added by base building. If you consider just how long it takes to get down to a specifical location on a planet, this is just yet more time being added (grind) to get to gameplay?

If someone can actually suggest some interesting gameplay loops/depth added by building a base, I'd love to hear it. As well as considering the core issues already raised by others such as due to instancing, people being at/in your base, and you (as its owner) can't even see them!


We had videos of 'get into a conda in 24h' years before Void Opals. And with wing missions it became a fraction of that.
Yes, the game has long since given up being a considered/balanced environment, economically and combat wise...
 
But I still don't see much gameplay worth/depth being added by base building. If you consider just how long it takes to get down to a specifical location on a planet, this is just yet more time being added (grind) to get to gameplay?
It is only a grind if you don't enjoy it. It is circular reasoning:

You: I don't like it
Response: But others do.
You: But it is a grind!
Response: Because you don't like it. But others do.

I don't see any point in discussing 'grind' anyway, because it is more than possible that whatever 'grind' there will be be will linked to whatever new (space legs?) gameplay there will be. If the gameplay is fun (exploring derelict wrecks, alien bases, stealthily invading camps) there won't be a grind to me even if I do it for hours on end. If the gameplay is not fun doing it for even a mere 10 minutes is a grind. And since we have no clue how anything will work, or even if base building actually is coming, any further discussions are nothing but a reflection of how the individual sees ED/FD. But we can be surprised, for better or worse.
 
It is only a grind if you don't enjoy it. It is circular reasoning:

You: I don't like it
Response: But others do.
You: But it is a grind!
Response: Because you don't like it. But others do.

I don't see any point in discussing 'grind' anyway, because it is more than possible that whatever 'grind' there will be be will linked to whatever new (space legs?) gameplay there will be. If the gameplay is fun (exploring derelict wrecks, alien bases, stealthily invading camps) there won't be a grind to me even if I do it for hours on end. If the gameplay is not fun doing it for even a mere 10 minutes is a grind. And since we have no clue how anything will work, or even if base building actually is coming, any further discussions are nothing but a reflection of how the individual sees ED/FD. But we can be surprised, for better or worse.
Maybe... Possibly...

eg: As you point out, if we consider "if the gameplay is fun", so to build your base, you go to a derelick wreck spaceleg into it, and hunt and find X, Y and Z, and return to your based and build a bit. And then to build a bit more you go to a derelick wreck spaceleg into it, and hunt and find X, Y and Z, and return to your based and build a bit. And then to build a bit more you go to a derelick wreck spaceleg into it, and hunt and find X, Y and Z, and return to your based and build a bit. And then to build a bit more you go to a derelick wreck spaceleg into it, and hunt and find X, Y and Z, and return to your based and build a bit. And then to build a bit more you go to a derelick wreck spaceleg into it, and hunt and find X, Y and Z, and return to your based and build a bit. And then to build a bit more you go to a derelick wreck spaceleg into it, and hunt and find X, Y and Z, and return to your based and build a bit. This has the hallmarks of risking being busy work rather than engaging and fun.

And there lies the real issue. Can FD make gameloops that can be considered "fun" or "challenging" or "balanced enough" or "involved enough" at least to a significant number of people as regards any impending spacelegs or base building. I sincerely hope they can! But their track record IMHO doesn't give me a lot of hope. Far too much of the past three or so years has a very very questionable/unbalanced design ethos on display. eg: Multicrew which is all but pointless. A Thargoid Invasion which with years to plan for, is all but meaningless and vapid. And Mining 2.0 which even with basically a clean slate is rather out of wack and unbalanced in areas.

If we are headed in spacelegs direction, I truly hope FD nail it. But my fear is given the past three years track record, is with the same designers and the same design ethos we'll get some real head scratching stuff added to the game...

It's going to be fascinating!
 
Maybe... Possibly...

eg: As you point out, if we consider "if the gameplay is fun", so to build your base, you go to a derelick wreck spaceleg into it, and hunt and find X, Y and Z, and return to your based and build a bit. And then to build a bit more you go to a derelick wreck spaceleg into it, and hunt and find X, Y and Z, and return to your based and build a bit. And then to build a bit more you go to a derelick wreck spaceleg into it, and hunt and find X, Y and Z, and return to your based and build a bit. And then to build a bit more you go to a derelick wreck spaceleg into it, and hunt and find X, Y and Z, and return to your based and build a bit. And then to build a bit more you go to a derelick wreck spaceleg into it, and hunt and find X, Y and Z, and return to your based and build a bit. And then to build a bit more you go to a derelick wreck spaceleg into it, and hunt and find X, Y and Z, and return to your based and build a bit. This has the hallmarks of risking being busy work rather than engaging and fun.
That is indeed how games work. There is stuff to do, and if you do it you get a reward. And if you do it again, you'll get more rewards. If you like it you'll do it for a while. If you don't you'll call it a grind, and might do it if you really value in-game rewards over spending your leisure time having fun. Either way, at some point you'll get bored and then you'll do something else with your time. Some might go for the optional step of announcing this to random strangers for some reason.

Then the cycle starts anew. :p
 
That is indeed how games work. There is stuff to do, and if you do it you get a reward. And if you do it again, you'll get more rewards. If you like it you'll do it for a while. If you don't you'll call it a grind, and might do it if you really value in-game rewards over spending your leisure time having fun. Either way, at some point you'll get bored and then you'll do something else with your time. Some might go for the optional step of announcing this to random strangers for some reason.

Then the cycle starts anew. :p
Agreed! So you could suggest the difference between good and bad, successful and unsuccessful design is how enjoyable and engaging the "stuff to do" is, and/or indeed how appealing the suggested goals in the game are. So... About Multicrew then? :)

I burned out quickly with Engineers as I found, (a) the premise of engineering basically just an unbalanced outcome injected into the game to create busy work just for sake of creating busy work (imho), and (b), that busy work for me was just shallow game loops/design. So for me, most of Engineering was a flop - pointless upper tier performance scope creep just to merit many shallow gameplay loops and busy work - so, in truth, some of the game died for me there and then!

So I fear FD will for example create space legs, and all that will do is open up a new Eastern Front for Frontier to bolt on yet more shallow unbalanced half-baked FPS gameplay loops onto, akin to what they've been doing for the Space Flight Western Front for the past three or so years... (IMHO)
 
It's a game, I play it becaue I like it, some bits more than others, but in general it provides enough material for my imagination to be kept busy. What I like about the game, or find interesting, is pretty much just me... I couldn't suggest how someone else might enjoy the game as if they weren't the only suggestion I'd give would be the question "Why are you playing it, then?"

Life is short enough, why do something that makes you miserable, just for fun?
 
Top Bottom