Concerns about any upcoming Base Building

Jaymundo87

Jaymundo87
The idea of base building in ED should be incredibly exciting, find a lone planet out there somewhere, claim it as your own and defend your little patch of the ED galaxy! If the recent leaks are to be believed then this is a feature on its way to us and that should be a reason to be excited but I can't help but feel it will be underwhelming and I hate to say that.

FD's track record for grind, especially when it comes to materials and recipes indicates that Base Building is dead in the water already, I can't see FD releasing the update and the base modules being accessible, I fear we'll have to endure yet another grind-fest in order to build a simple shell, then get back to it to add a door, or life support, or lighting. I understand the need to craft and gather materials but I'm worried FD will again push this to the extreme and block out the causal or time-strapped player trying to get ahead, such as myself.

Is anyone else concerned about this? Anyone have any ideas on how FD should/could do this in a player-friendly way? I would love to hear your thoughts.
 

DMC831

DMC831
Vardaugas said:
Have they already announced any details we can discuss and I missed it?
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Nah, no official word yet, just the leaks (which have had several confirmed predictions but who knows about the Elite related stuff). As far as I've seen (and I think I've been watching as much as one can), Frontier has given no word on anything since they said it'd be coming in the latter half of 2020.
 

Toumal

Toumal
My concern is that FD doesn't have the design and infrastructure yet to allow for persistent bases. For a bad example, see Fallout 76. For a working though limited example, see Planetside2. My guess is that bases will either be rather temporary, or FD needs to ditch P2P for certain areas of the game to allow for persistent bases to be attackable and defendable online.
 

DMC831

DMC831
Jaymundo87 said:
Is anyone else concerned about this? Anyone have any ideas on how FD should/could do this in a player-friendly way? I would love to hear your thoughts.
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Whatever the update is, I do wonder (worry would sound too strong) if they will trip over themselves again and make things unreasonably grindy. They've often made a first version of a system which is just flat out not fun and overly punishing (like requiring commodities for engineering recipes, and the silly initial inventory limits for data and materials, and the amazingly bad original requirements for Guardian unlocks) which they later relax and make it easier, but I think that bad first impression really sticks to a sizable segment of the player population.

In Elite terms, the game ain't that grindy right now to me. Money is easy, there's various shortcuts to get the data and materials ya need, Guardian unlocks still ain't fun but at least ya just unlock the thing once and it's "done", there's endpoints for maxing out Engineering... it's not too bad really. But those initial levels of grind, even if they smooth them out over time, they sure annoy a lot of us and just don't seem necessary.

Base building does seem like a perfect vessel for them to do a 1st draft version that is crazy grindy, but I hope they find the right balance with whatever it ends up being (if we're even getting bases, of course). I won't worry about it until it's something real to worry about, but I do find it interesting that they've kept running into the same issue.

I guess the most recent example is needing Guardian materials to synthesize ammo for the Advanced Multicannon, which is what prompted me to think about this reoccurring issue. I assume that'll eventually be tweaked as well; it's not a challenge to gather the ingredients, but it's such a hassle and waste of time even if the synthesis wasn't being taken off in ways that I hope aren't intended. And especially for something as temporary as ammo, I mean, c'mon.

Base building could be real fun though!
 
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Jmanis

Jmanis
Nup. Not excited by this, nor interested in having it in the game.

Let's spend more effort on mechanics to engage with the factions out there.... say, actually introduce a military career path and not a fluff ship unlock system which can be done transporting some biowaste.

EDIT: Heck, let NPC factions expand into new bases before letting players do it.
 
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Vardaugas

Vardaugas
"Base building" could exhaust itself on decorating/outfitting your ships' private quarters and the interiors of Fleet Carriers. I think it's more a design category for general location personalization than this very specific base building you think about.
 

DMC831

DMC831
Jmanis said:
Nup. Not excited by this, nor interested in having it in the game.

Let's spend more effort on mechanics to engage with the factions out there.... say, actually introduce a military career path and not a fluff ship unlock system which can be done transporting some biowaste.
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I'd love a TIE Fighter-esque campaign for the Superpowers to earn our ranks. Plus some additional perks and consequences for ranking highly with the Feds and Empire.

You could earn medals and honours, get additional benefits from performing well, get actually treated differently based on what ya do, etc etc, I'm sure everyone could imagine ways to make it more engaging. While a main campaign doesn't really fit the overall game, something similar for the Superpowers that is campaign-esque seems appropriate to me.
 

Deleted member 38366

D
Although I'm usually 1st to agree to valid concerns in respect to balancing and gameplay vs. grind implementation, IMHO such personal assets should incorporate two things by design :

  • Credits sink (well-balanced, it should make tiny FOBs affordable, but also provide a place to burn Credits into a large and fleshed out Installation if desired - optional Gameplay)
  • Time sink (hopefully in the form of enjoyable/rewarding gameplay & results)
So while the nucleus should remain "doable", I wouldn't even mind requiring alot of effort to construct what might become a fully fleshed out Planetary Installation with all facilities, bells & jingles).
Key word here being : optional

Obviously, it remains to be seen how modular or flexible the implementation will be. And how fleshed out the whole process... and indeed, that's always a fully valid concern around here.
But that could be said about any new Update/Feature, so Base Building doesn't stand out in any way.
 

Kaocraft

Kaocraft
My real concern with base building is that there will be no visual component to the construction of bases. As with ships; all expansion, modification, and construction of new facilities, modules, systems, etc, will take the form of “under the hood” stat tweaks and menu options, with the actual physical bases being one-and-done complete objects plonked down onto a surface.

What I want is some variant of “legos” like what we’ve seen in Minecraft, No Man’s Sky, Subnautica, etc; with a materials-crafting-components-facilities play loop where there’s a back and forth as we continually build expand tweak and rebuild our bases as we gather, discover, and synthesize new materials and structural elements. What I want is a free form, expressive, sculptural kind of construction system. What I fear is that Frontier’s hardline stance on “cosmetic” (ie anything personally self-expressive) items being paywalled, combined with maybe a technical inability/unwillingness to implement something as “brick by brick” modular as other games have achieved, will result in something more along the lines of what we see in top-down strategy games, with buildings and facilities plopped into existence fully formed, and differentiated only by various prefab “tile sets” (which will not be player designed but rather part of the Frontier Store).

In games like Minecraft and their ilk, I’ve never been put off by “grind”, because every single thing I acquire always has an immediate potential use as well as a medium and long-term use, and components can be added and subtracted and substituted continually. This type of grind is very compelling to me, and I would not mind at all if some of the higher tier materials and facilities required great resourcefulness and time investments to acquire.

But all of the “grind” in Elite Dangerous has so far not been like that. Instead of acquiring things which are useful, and finding increasingly complex or demanding ways to play with them, everything you acquire or set out to do in Elite feels more like opening a savings account or checking off boxes on a scavenger hunt. The materials have no purpose or meaning until you have enough of everything to “buy” your desired item, which then appears fully formed and complete. There is no sense of building, accumulation, or (for me anyway) accomplishment. Every system in Elite is a piggy bank, a blank void into which you stuff resources until you have enough to “craft” (but really buy) a new weapon/module/ammunition/whatever, at which point the resources are gone forever and can never be repurposed, reclaimed, or exchanged. I personally find this tremendously unrewarding and depressing, because until the exact moment when you finally click the synthesis/upgrade/buy/unlock button, it doesn’t feel like you are actually DOING anything. It doesn’t add to the game it just feels like a convoluted version of Waiting.

I really would prefer if base building didn’t work this way but I currently expect that it WILL be this way. If this turns out to be the case, I expect that no matter what grind requirements are established, the conversation will always be basically the same as the current conversations about mission payouts, engineering material costs, tech brokers, new synthesis recipes, etc; no matter how much Frontier adjusts the costs of things, people will always feel like the game is “too grindy”, because the underlying system is on its face unrewarding to begin with.
 
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Jaymundo87

Jaymundo87
Great to see some differing and detailed opinions. I'm not trying to knock the idea of base building at all, it's my number one wish list feature (assuming it comes alongside space legs in order to work). I was thinking ahead after some of the leaks seemed to be legit. I just don't want it to be a huge grind to build one small module of a base, that's all. Personally, I don't always have huge amounts of time to play ED and therefore everything is a challenge, which is a whole other debate on its own.

What I hope they do when the feature comes around is a modular, snap-to system like others have touched on in the thread. Something akin to the way it works in No Mans Sky. Due to the terrain on planets, I think we will likely get modules or assets that can phase through the surface, otherwise, I feel it would be a nightmare.

I think there is massive potential with it as a feature too, such as uploading your own blueprints for other CMDR's to download, Frontier Store skins/textures and the idea of being able to store inventory, cargo, materials and of course ships at a home base would be really neat. It would also work well with squadrons (and fleet carriers if they ever arrive). Building inside an asteroid would be cool or even construct a small orbital platform in the future.
 

Askorti

A
Honestly, I feel like basebuilding is beyond FDev for one, and for two it seems kinda pointless to me. Other than just having a base, I can't really think of a way that they could make it actually useful. Not that there aren't ways to do so, I just doubt FDev would find them.

Hmm... I guess I just really don't trust them with this, huh?
 

Seizewell Warrior

Seizewell Warrior
So long as it's not like the Xenon Hub mission in TC, where once you set up your microchip fabs, you picked up a book and read it while your trader ships moved the materials. Or that URV Forge you had to build in Reunions where the only location you could procure the materials (without buying the DLC) was in the sector you had just left because every faction was hostile to you and your ships.
 

Jaymundo87

Jaymundo87
RolloTreadway said:
Ooh, a thread where we get to complain about something that doesn't currently exist. Haven't had one of these in days!
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I'm not complaining, just voicing a personal concern and hopes ahead of an update based on my own opinion and the previous record of FD in order to start a discussion. Speculation and idea sharing is different from complaining but here are your internet points for your efforts.

+1 to Edginess
 

-VR- Max Factor

-VR- Max Factor
Toumal said:
My concern is that FD doesn't have the design and infrastructure yet to allow for persistent bases. For a bad example, see Fallout 76. For a working though limited example, see Planetside2. My guess is that bases will either be rather temporary, or FD needs to ditch P2P for certain areas of the game to allow for persistent bases to be attackable and defendable online.
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There are plenty of permanent structures in elite which have no issues. P2P should not be an issue as I suspect it will all be kept server side if it does come like the rest of the galaxy is.

I also doubt bases will be attackable. They will likely have lethal defences like stations with a proximity warnings to stop landing bay hogging.
 

-VR- Max Factor

-VR- Max Factor
picommander said:
Why not attackable, like any other existing surface building? I think you probably meant "destructible", and there I would dare to state a clear no - again like any other surface building. Persistence should be no issue, it's just a few coordinates being stored on the central server. At least as long as these buildings are as uniformly like the current existing ones with no individual design. If that really will be that exciting remains to be seen.
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What would be the point in attacking them anyway? I doubt they will be connected to the BGS.

There can be individual designs, they can still be held on a server.
 
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