News Content Recap: Beyond - Chapter Four Livestream - Exploration and the Codex

[Angus]

If I should start worry about immerse, then this thing will be very low on my list (multicrew being first).

Okay, I accept that, but that's you - for me, once you start talking about infinite ammo then you are leaving immersion behind, and you're moving into the realms of the arcade game.

I would have thought most self-respecting explorers (like me) would have embraced the concept of self-sufficiency and the challenges that brings with it. Sure, for people who view Elite as a multiplayer combat fest, and use the word grind whenever the game requires them to depart from that, I can see why they would want infinite everything, and then attempt to ridicule others by endlessly repeating the "MAH IMERSHUN" phrase.

But actually this isn't Call of Duty, it has always been about immersion, and is in my opinion, at the very heart of the game, so having a stock of, for example, 5,000 probes, that can be replenished easily on the surface, or by using fuel, or in an asteroid belt, is infinitely preferable to the Poke 61647,173 unlimited ammunition option.

 

[Marc_Hicks]

There are still serious omissions in this planned exploration update in my opinion:

- There's still no proper planetary navigation. We can't search for, pinpoint or bookmark planetary coordinates. The current method (flying around trying to comprehend how the two coordinates change and trying to turn in the proper direction) is ridiculous. There have been no improvements on this whatsoever, even though the community has requested this feature many times.

- There's no night-vision mode in SRV. While it's nice to have it in the ship, most of the planetary exploration takes place in the SRV which would benefit much more from night-vision mode than the mothership. I really don't understand how Frontier can't implement this feature so it could be actually useful. Having it only in the ship is just a gimmick.

- Still no changeable HUD colors. This is, again, a much requested feature by the community. Now not only do we get new HUD/UI elements, codex, but also lighting improvements and graphical tricks. But still no way to change the HUD color. This is a major disappointment.

- Confusing exploration mechanics. The new system may be faster for people who want to scan everything but it's way slower for "honk and jump" players. Simply honking will not reveal anything so it will not give money for the player. Also, just for honking we will have to change into exploration mode which is an extra button press while it was instantaneous before. Also, if a system has been scanned before all the bodies will be already revealed. Which, in itself is a good thing, but again reducing the possible money explorers can earn by honking a system, which will probably be 0 most of the time anyway (since only the main star will be revealed by a honk).

Undisclosed questions:

- What is the keybind for switching to exploration mode on a console controller?
- What happens if the player is interdicted while he's scanning the system? (Explorers will be extremely vulnerable while they are parked in supercruise, tuning their scanner.)
- What if bodies are on the opposite side of the main star (so they are covered by it)? Does the player have to circle around the star to see them? It would take even more time.
- How do the exploration earnings change?

All in all, while the update contains imaginative features I do think it has some missed opportunities and it will basically just complicate things instead of making exploration more worthwhile. The main problem with exploration was never the way it was done, the problem has always been that there was barely anything worth finding out there which seems to remain the same. I don't see real added content. This is my main doubt. It is spectacular but nothing more right now and it will only mean a deeper time sink than before.

Yep, planetary co-ordinate bookmarks are a must IMHO.

 

[bitstorm]

Okay, I accept that, but that's you - for me, once you start talking about infinite ammo then you are leaving immersion behind, and you're moving into the realms of the arcade game.

I would have thought most self-respecting explorers (like me) would have embraced the concept of self-sufficiency and the challenges that brings with it. Sure, for people who view Elite as a multiplayer combat fest, and use the word grind whenever the game requires them to depart from that, I can see why they would want infinite everything, and then attempt to ridicule others by endlessly repeating the "MAH IMERSHUN" phrase.

But actually this isn't Call of Duty, it has always been about immersion, and is in my opinion, at the very heart of the game, so having a stock of, for example, 5,000 probes, that can be replenished easily on the surface, or by using fuel, or in an asteroid belt, is infinitely preferable to the Poke 61647,173 unlimited ammunition option.

Frontier have previously said that they are NOT trying to create a scientifically accurate simulation, they are trying to create a GAME.

This was when materials were introduced and people were complaining it didn't make sense.

I'd also say your definition of immersion differs greatly to mine.

 

[Vithigar]

- There's still no proper planetary navigation. We can't search for, pinpoint or bookmark planetary coordinates. The current method (flying around trying to comprehend how the two coordinates change and trying to turn in the proper direction) is ridiculous. There have been no improvements on this whatsoever, even though the community has requested this feature many times.

So, I agree that some surface navigation tools would be nice to have. We should be able to drop a nav marker somewhere and have our HUD tell us what direction it is, or be able to bookmark specific surface locations, or something.

That said, this:

The current method (flying around trying to comprehend how the two coordinates change and trying to turn in the proper direction) is ridiculous.

is absurd hyperbole. You're talking like it's some kind of cryptic system no one understands, when it's the same coordinate system used for real life navigation. "Trying to comprehend how the two coordinates change" is a real skill that many people use in their day-to-day lives. It's not rocket science, it's basic orienteering. They teach it at Boy Scouts.

 

[Rob_the_Sparky]

Okay, I accept that, but that's you - for me, once you start talking about infinite ammo then you are leaving immersion behind, and you're moving into the realms of the arcade game.

I would have thought most self-respecting explorers (like me) would have embraced the concept of self-sufficiency and the challenges that brings with it. Sure, for people who view Elite as a multiplayer combat fest, and use the word grind whenever the game requires them to depart from that, I can see why they would want infinite everything, and then attempt to ridicule others by endlessly repeating the "MAH IMERSHUN" phrase.

But actually this isn't Call of Duty, it has always been about immersion, and is in my opinion, at the very heart of the game, so having a stock of, for example, 5,000 probes, that can be replenished easily on the surface, or by using fuel, or in an asteroid belt, is infinitely preferable to the Poke 61647,173 unlimited ammunition option.

Agreed, it would feel better if they make it a large number that is synthesisable (with easily found mats?) but they have said that they don't want explorers to have to return to the bubble when they release this. If you have explorers out there with no SRV and no mining laser then the only option to prevent them having to return when they run out is infinite ammo. This may be what is driving the infinite thing. You do have to remember that we are not yet even in Beta though so this ammo limit/no limit is liable to change over the next few weeks.

 

[discocat]

Agreed, it would feel better if they make it a large number that is synthesisable (with easily found mats?) but they have said that they don't want explorers to have to return to the bubble when they release this. If you have explorers out there with no SRV and no mining laser then the only option to prevent them having to return when they run out is infinite ammo. This may be what is driving the infinite thing. You do have to remember that we are not yet even in Beta though so this ammo limit/no limit is liable to change over the next few weeks.

The reason here, which lead to that choice : non-horizons explorers. They don't have access to synthesis.

 

[Vithigar]

The reason here, which lead to that choice : non-horizons explorers. They don't have access to synthesis.

You can synthethize without horizons, it's just a pain to gather materials. Need to have mining lasers.

 

[Rat Catcher]

Looks like they totally nerfed exploration to me. what I really wanted was to be able to stay in my ship in Jameson and just click on any star in the system and have all of the money, complete system details and first discovered and mapped by me to be registered, then click on the next star I see and do it all over again, I can't leave the station because it isn't safe and some other player/npc might just interact with me.

There, sorted out exploration, now if i can sort out combat and trade the same way things would be glorious!

I know this doesn't address the concerns of the 'True Explorers ^TM' but that's just tough... Oh and I want infinite credits too as we seem to be going down the infinite argument [big grin]

(have I made enough meaningless noise, or should I go on some more?)


The beta exploration mechanics appear simple enough to me to be useful and time saving in the long run in comparison to DSS'ing every body in a system the current way. FDev won't have a system that pleases everyone (if they did I'd demand patent rights on the formula) as every one of us is an individual and takes what WE want from the game. For me, I can fabricate enough explanations in my own mind how come I'll never run out of probes to not have that bother me and can see plenty of happy hours spent enjoying the improved mechanics and the orrery for detailed system layout that far exceeds what we have today.

 

[Alec Turner]

You can synthethize without horizons, it's just a pain to gather materials. Need to have mining lasers.

Indeed - and I think Frontier are just trying to be as little of a pain to explorers (especially those currently out in the black) as possible. Seem laudable to me.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Yep, planetary co-ordinate bookmarks are a must IMHO.

Both planetary and system wide bookmarks would be huge killer upgrade for ED. Something that's doable, and even some limits it would be like awesome. Especially now we have orrery map

 

[Angus]

Indeed - and I think Frontier are just trying to be as little of a pain to explorers (especially those currently out in the black) as possible. Seem laudable to me.

I understand that, but I would say it was at the cost of the game, and those people in deep space, would be able to do everything they can currently do, but would also have (for example) 5000 probes for mapping. i wouldn't want to disadvantage even one person out there for no reason, but is it really beyond the wit of FD to have a solution that involves finite resources?

I imagine an attractive factor of the infinite ammo solution for FD is that it involves no extra work - but (for my money) there is a credibility price tag attached.

 

[discocat]

You can synthethize without horizons, it's just a pain to gather materials. Need to have mining lasers.

Indeed - and I think Frontier are just trying to be as little of a pain to explorers (especially those currently out in the black) as possible. Seem laudable to me.

Oh, is this recent ?

 

[Angus]

"Trying to comprehend how the two coordinates change" is a real skill that many people use in their day-to-day lives. It's not rocket science, it's basic orienteering. They teach it at Boy Scouts.

True enough, but it can be a real pain, expecially when your eyesight isn't that great and there's a juxtaposition problem between the forward hull of the Anaconda and the co-ordinates.

 

[Alec Turner]

Oh, is this recent ?

Am I wrong? I thought, even without Horizons, you could still synthesise non-Horizons things like jumponium for the FSD using materials gathered via mining? How about multi-cannon ammo? Never tried but can you synthesise that without Horizons? (would be good to bust a myth here, if it is indeed a myth).

 

[Jenner]

What I'd like to know is, what happens when you're interdicted while in exploration mode? will the game put you back in flying mode?

My guess? You're insta-gibbed.

 

[Vithigar]

Oh, is this recent ?

The Synthesis tab has always been available to non-horizons, since version 2.0/1.5 when it was first added, though initially there was no way for non-horizons players to get materials, which was a little silly. A little while later they added material drops when mining asteroids/rings, which opened up basic synthesis to non-horizons players.

edit: Dug through the patch notes, was added in 2.1 (in May of 2016):

- Mining resources can now create materials
- Materials can be spawned inside signal sources
- Materials can be dropped from destroyed ships

 

[who?]

If I understand correctly, if someone has sold data for a system, the System Map is populated for other users. However this still means we've no way of easily sharing newly discovered stuff on planets in 'virgin' systems. E.g.

Me: OMG! I've just discovered an alien Playboy Mansion in system THARGS-R-US 1000, planet 2B, long 11.5, lat 88.0!
Others: On my way! Wait... where's planet 2B? All I see is an empty system.
Me: Just... you know... second star from the left and straight on 'til morning.

I know. It's not the end of the world, it won't take too long for someone to play the Spot The Planet game and find the planets.

But it's a bit strange that I can give them precise longitude and latitude coordinates, but first they have to go search for the planet itself. If I find something amazing in a new system (most likely place to find something amazing..) I'm not likely to go racing back to the bubble just so everyone else can see the planets. I'll want to hang around and explore.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

If I understand correctly, if someone has sold data for a system, the System Map is populated for other users. However this still means we've no way of easily sharing newly discovered stuff on planets in 'virgin' systems. E.g.

Me: OMG! I've just discovered an alien Playboy Mansion in system THARGS-R-US 1000, planet 2B, long 11.5, lat 88.0!
Others: On my way! Wait... where's planet 2B? All I see is an empty system.
Me: Just... you know... second star from the left and straight on 'til morning.

I know. It's not the end of the world, it won't take too long for someone to play the Spot The Planet game and find the planets.

But it's a bit strange that I can give them precise longitude and latitude coordinates, but first they have to go search for the planet itself. If I find something amazing in a new system (most likely place to find something amazing..) I'm not likely to go racing back to the bubble just so everyone else can see the planets. I'll want to hang around and explore.

I would think that anything like that would come up on the Codex for everyone to see. Which is really what it's meant for.

 

[who?]

I would think that anything like that would come up on the Codex for everyone to see. Which is really what it's meant for.

Fair enough! Certainly would work for the example I provided

For something more minor "Hey, I found this amazing canyon for racing!", that's not going to be in the Codex. Not the end of the world by any means, but it would be nice if there were on-screen 'co-ordinates' in the FSS view to let us make a note of - and let others can enter in - celestial body locations.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Fair enough! Certainly would work for the example I provided

For something more minor "Hey, I found this amazing canyon for racing!", that's not going to be in the Codex. Not the end of the world by any means, but it would be nice if there were on-screen 'co-ordinates' in the FSS view to let us make a note of - and let others can enter in - celestial body locations.

Agreed. Would be nice to be able to share stuff like that, but yeah, I can see it not being a high priority.