News Content Recap - Beyond Chapter One Livestream (23.01.2018) - Part 3 Recap
- Thread starter Will Flanagan
- Start date
stormyuk
Volunteer Moderator
Its a total absolute pain in the backside.
Yeh this is my problem, god rolls never interested me, but G5 did. Its almost like I need to go out and buy all the ships and modules I want now and rush to do ANY G5 on them at all just to get them ready for dropping to G4. The thought of having to fully upgrade entire ship systems from G1 to G5 is just filling me with total dread when in the past I would just do a few rolls per module, I will have to do do ALOT.
Then why have the engineering hoopla at all? The basic class+grade system already gives enough choice to players. I prefer to actually play the game instead of doing boring chores like gathering mats and fretting over which mats to trade for something else.
IMHO engineers remains a weird bolt-on that adds nothing to the game but a huge time sink. Unless you like making shopping lists and then jumping around for ages ticking off those lists.</snip></snip></snip>
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If you could hop in at G5 on any module you just bought, it would be far to little afford to maximize a new ship.
This is a totally necessary step to counter the hundreds of rolls without improvement at the higher end of engineering of the old system.
This way an engineered module is still worth something an feel precious.
This is a totally necessary step to counter the hundreds of rolls without improvement at the higher end of engineering of the old system.
This way an engineered module is still worth something an feel precious.
stormyuk
Volunteer Moderator
If you could hop in at G5 on any module you just bought, it would be far to little afford to maximize a new ship.
This is a totally necessary step to counter the hundreds of rolls without improvement at the higher end of engineering of the old system.
This way an engineered module is still worth something an feel precious.
I can't speak for others but that's not what I expect, I just hope they tweak the numbers so it doesn't take quite so many rolls to go from G1 to G5 and they tweak the trader numbers. At the moment as advertised in the current form its going to be an absolute massive grind to even get ships fitted to the base G5.
If you could hop in at G5 on any module you just bought, it would be far to little afford to maximize a new ship.
This is a totally necessary step to counter the hundreds of rolls without improvement at the higher end of engineering of the old system.
This way an engineered module is still worth something an feel precious.
Like I said, I like everything else but it depends on how difficult it will be to get the materials (something what has been very time consuming in the past). If say, using the material broker or materials are easier to come by or the receipts don't have such high requirements in the past, then it might work. That's why I'm giving it the benefit of the doubt until I've tested it in beta.
However, most people compare it to the present system and if you had to grind from 1-5 in the present system for every module and then redo it all for a second ship, I don't think I would have had the time.
We need time sinks. When you reach a certain point of progression in the game, you will be thankful for every kind of time sink with a sense of progression the game could offer.
I am totally happy with the new system after more than 100 rolls on my FSD alone without any better result, that's a very welcome change.
stormyuk
Volunteer Moderator
Please remember to post a lot of detailed feedback on the beta for us console peasants who can only sit and watch, and hope, or dread.
Please remember to post a lot of detailed feedback on the beta for us console peasants who can only sit and watch, and hope, or dread.
You mean like I recommended people to do on Lave Radio last night?
Will Do.
The concept that the new system of engineering will be less grind than is was previously is just nonsensical. If you do the maths on engineering a new ‘average’ ship purchased by the ‘average player’, the new system will require more than 4x as many rolls and nearly 4x as many materials once a player has already unlocked G5 upgrades under the old system. The example below even generously suggests that a player under the old system would roll 3 times at G5 to get a result they are satisfied with. (personally in many cases I would just roll once and move on as it isn’t worth my time and effort to find the extra materials for a potentially minimal difference, on the basis of that do you really think I want to have to find 4x the number of materials or more likely 10x in an old one roll method to get a G5 mod under the new system?)
The improvements of adding the materials trader and now remote nature of undertaking engineering upgrades have just been counteracted but this bizarre concept of increased grinding of rolls. It would have made most people’s gaming experience a lot better to have added the new feature and left the old engineering mechanic alone…
| Module | New System Rolls | Old System Rolls |
| FSD | 14 | 3 |
| PD | 14 | 3 |
| Armour | 14 | 3 |
| Shield | 14 | 3 |
| WEP1 | 14 | 3 |
| WEP2 | 14 | 3 |
| WEP3 | 14 | 3 |
| WEP4 | 14 | 3 |
| WEP5 | 14 | 3 |
| SB1 | 14 | 3 |
| SB2 | 14 | 3 |
| SB3 | 14 | 3 |
| TOTAL | 168 | 36 |
| Mats required | 420 (x2.5) | 108 (x3) |
The improvements of adding the materials trader and now remote nature of undertaking engineering upgrades have just been counteracted but this bizarre concept of increased grinding of rolls. It would have made most people’s gaming experience a lot better to have added the new feature and left the old engineering mechanic alone…
I'm a different kind of gamer. I'm not included in the 'We' you mention.
The game needs to offer player agency to players that 'reach a certain point of progression' as you put it. Not chores to dissipate time. The game needs a mechanism that enables players to create an adventure for themselves and for others (it's a multi-player game after all).
The whole engineering still stands and falls with the conversion rates of the new material traders. I mean, at the moment some materials are very tedious to collect, but in the new system the traders offer a whole new perspective.
.
- Raw Materials: whenever you go mining, your collector limpets bring in a pile of those. Sure most of it will be iron, but the trade will convert it.
- Manufactured Materials: whenever you go to a RES or CZ, just fit a collector limpet controller. Yea, for my poor courier that'll be a problem, but most of my other combat ships can afford to clear two slots for cargo and controller. They won't be "as combaty" as before, but they'll still perform perfectly well and bring in piles of materials. Sure you'll have a boatload of common materials, but again, the trader can help.
- Encoded Materials: those come in all the time. For example just select and scan a ship and quite often you get data. And if it's junk, again bring it to the trader.
.
So as long as the trader offers acceptable conversion rates, getting the materials won't be such a big deal any more. As we yet don't know the final conversion rates, i can just laugh about all the postings on the future of engineering, no matter if they forsee paradise or predict the end times. It's good that we'll have the option, in a few days we have the actual beta and see the actual (beta) conversion rates. Only then we'll be able to make and conclusion.
.
.
- Raw Materials: whenever you go mining, your collector limpets bring in a pile of those. Sure most of it will be iron, but the trade will convert it.
- Manufactured Materials: whenever you go to a RES or CZ, just fit a collector limpet controller. Yea, for my poor courier that'll be a problem, but most of my other combat ships can afford to clear two slots for cargo and controller. They won't be "as combaty" as before, but they'll still perform perfectly well and bring in piles of materials. Sure you'll have a boatload of common materials, but again, the trader can help.
- Encoded Materials: those come in all the time. For example just select and scan a ship and quite often you get data. And if it's junk, again bring it to the trader.
.
So as long as the trader offers acceptable conversion rates, getting the materials won't be such a big deal any more. As we yet don't know the final conversion rates, i can just laugh about all the postings on the future of engineering, no matter if they forsee paradise or predict the end times. It's good that we'll have the option, in a few days we have the actual beta and see the actual (beta) conversion rates. Only then we'll be able to make and conclusion.
.
The whole engineering still stands and falls with the conversion rates of the new material traders. I mean, at the moment some materials are very tedious to collect, but in the new system the traders offer a whole new perspective.
.
- Raw Materials: whenever you go mining, your collector limpets bring in a pile of those. Sure most of it will be iron, but the trade will convert it.
- Manufactured Materials: whenever you go to a RES or CZ, just fit a collector limpet controller. Yea, for my poor courier that'll be a problem, but most of my other combat ships can afford to clear two slots for cargo and controller. They won't be "as combaty" as before, but they'll still perform perfectly well and bring in piles of materials. Sure you'll have a boatload of common materials, but again, the trader can help.
- Encoded Materials: those come in all the time. For example just select and scan a ship and quite often you get data. And if it's junk, again bring it to the trader.
.
So as long as the trader offers acceptable conversion rates, getting the materials won't be such a big deal any more. As we yet don't know the final conversion rates, i can just laugh about all the postings on the future of engineering, no matter if they forsee paradise or predict the end times. It's good that we'll have the option, in a few days we have the actual beta and see the actual (beta) conversion rates. Only then we'll be able to make and conclusion.
.
Thankfully, that is what beta is for. They can hopefully change that within the beta if it is too punishing.
Sorry, but what you fail to understand in that list is that while you are looking for you hard to find G5 materials, you will be finding loads of the lower grade materials anyway. Just because it is more materials, doesn't mean more grind.
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stormyuk
Volunteer Moderator
Don't forget you will need those lower grade materials for those lower grade rolls, you can't just trade them all away to higher stuff.
I never said you needed to. It really is very simple, by the time you have found all of your grade 5 materials as you normally would, it is likely you would have most if not all of the lower grade materials anyway as long as you pick them up in your search, remember you don't need to throw any away to make space for others any more. And for the odd few that you don't find you can either trade up or down to get them at the broker.
If there is more grind for those that grind for materials it will be minimal.
To me, it looks like people are complaining just for the same of complaining.
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And you don't take into account the much more convenient approach to the special effects. The old system needed a re-roll if you want to use different special effects and you have to be lucky or very lucky or do a some mindless rolls to replenish the rank after "buying" an effect.
The new System is so much more consistent. If you bring mats, the engineer would do something for you... and not saying "sorry, you gathered these mats for 10h and frack you".
And I have to grin if I think about an engineer tinkering on your module and go like: "I don't know how, I made it worse than before, but I accidentally built some smart rounds or something in your weapon."
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Yep. The new system for me is much better. Also you can apply the special effect whenever you want to and not loose it as you upgrade. So many positives to the system.
For old players: The possibility to go to the max without hundreds of tries without result.
For new players: A much more straight forward approach with a clear afford - reward.
Maybe it would take a bit longer for each module, but the new material/data storage counter a good portion of the struggle.
Lets wait for the beta. If it turns out to be a much too harder grind, FD will surely tweak the parameters like exchange rates of the mat broker or other things to counter it.
For new players: A much more straight forward approach with a clear afford - reward.
Maybe it would take a bit longer for each module, but the new material/data storage counter a good portion of the struggle.
Lets wait for the beta. If it turns out to be a much too harder grind, FD will surely tweak the parameters like exchange rates of the mat broker or other things to counter it.
You actually right. I do sound butthurt, because it is how I felt when making my post.
But putting emotions aside my statement still stands.
The new system is actually balanced. FD used worst possible method for it, but it is working method.
For casual players, who only need engineered module of any quality, new system will decrease necessary grind due to material trader and fixed penalties (you right again). For players who want better than average upgrade new system still be slightly less time consuming. And those who want absolutely maxed modules will spend much more time than before.
So new system balance favors casual/intermediate players while making “god rolls” much more time consuming.
It is actually a good thing. New players and casuals should be able to enjoy game with minimal required grind. And competitive players who make hi-end modules for PvP, solo-thargoid and other such activities are prepared to spend hundreds of hours for their gear.
If I made nearly thousand rolls for my FSD now to get 52% and +fuel at the same time, I will make a few thousands of attempts under new system as well.
It does not make me happy, I do not like grind. But I understand that balance should be made to appeal for majority of players, both by making their upgrades easier and making top-grade gear in hands of experienced players much more rare.