Could Frontier please demonstrate how to use the FSS enjoyably?

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We said we didn't like it.
People asked us to explain why.
We explained why.
People said it wasn't valid.
We explained why we consider it valid.
People said we were being hypocritical.
Try to explain why, that also doesn't apply to the ADS as well. It would help, don't you think?
 
Try to explain why, that also doesn't apply to the ADS as well. It would help, don't you think?
You mean the minigame thing?
Well you could argue that the ADS was a minigame from the perspective of rewards and changing the environment, and it was undeniably simplistic. However, others (and I believe you too) have argued vehemently that pressing a button for 5 seconds doesn't constitute gameplay - so it fails to meet that criterion for being a minigame. No gameplay == not a minigame.

If anything, the ADS was more akin to a loading screen than a minigame.

So, as has been stated before, the FSS places a minigame between the player and what they consider to be the core gameplay - flying a spaceship. The fact that the FSS is out-of-cockpit and requires the ship to be 'stationary' exacerbates the disconnect between the minigame and the core game.
 
You cannot glance at the FSS to decide if you want to do more work or not and the FSS is not only about that, the FSS requiers active participation of the pilot to yield the information, the system map is only a tool to review the data you have.
Yes you can.

I won't explain you everything Max, learn to think.
I am asking because it doesnt make sense. I can think perfectly fine thanks.

False and you can use the honk while moving which is what I always did to save time, arrive, get closer to the main star while charging the honk and once it was done I'd take a quick glance at the system map.
Yes you can use the honk while moving, but all you are doing is scooping and/or moving to the next jump point.

As I said, if the FSS is exploring according to you guys while standing still so is the ADS. Just because you can move is irrelevant.

The comment was describing it in a negative way to describe the FSS when it 100% applies to both. You can't call one bad and no the other in that sense.
 
You mean the minigame thing?
Well you could argue that the ADS was a minigame from the perspective of rewards and changing the environment, and it was undeniably simplistic. However, others (and I believe you too) have argued vehemently that pressing a button for 5 seconds doesn't constitute gameplay - so it fails to meet that criterion for being a minigame. No gameplay == not a minigame.
Nope. I am talking about the system and galaxy map. The way I use them constitutes gameplay.

If anything, the ADS was more akin to a loading screen than a minigame.
I agree.

So, as has been stated before, the FSS places a minigame between the player and what they consider to be the core gameplay - flying a spaceship. The fact that the FSS is out-of-cockpit and requires the ship to be 'stationary' exacerbates the disconnect between the minigame and the core game.
I don't see that. I see the FSS as core gameplay as well as piloting my ship, as well as using the system and galaxy maps. I don't mind that they take me out of the game, I see them using a direct neural interface which takes over your senses. You still in the cockpit, you just can't see it.

It's just a fundamental difference in the way we view things which is purely subjective. But to use a mini-game as a means to call it crap is just wrong. There is nothing wrong with mini-games and nothing wrong with this one except that you don't like it.

If we had our preferred probes system, that would equally be a mini-game. Just one you and I would both prefer over the old and new.
 
Yes you can.
All of the work the ADS used to reveal?

I am asking because it doesnt make sense. I can think perfectly fine thanks.
That's your responsability to show.

Yes you can use the honk while moving, but all you are doing is scooping and/or moving to the next jump point.

As I said, if the FSS is exploring according to you guys while standing still so is the ADS. Just because you can move is irrelevant.

The comment was describing it in a negative way to describe the FSS when it 100% applies to both. You can't call one bad and no the other in that sense.
1º Why is that relevant?

2º I was the one who said movement was irrelevant because exploration doesn't necessarily involve movement, however, being able to move while using either of them is a good thing and the decreased time spent using either of them means more time to actually go and see the planet for yourself.

3º What comment and in what sense?
 
I don't see that. I see the FSS as core gameplay as well as piloting my ship, as well as using the system and galaxy maps. I don't mind that they take me out of the game, I see them using a direct neural interface which takes over your senses. You still in the cockpit, you just can't see it.
Subjective opinion. As valid as anyone else's, but it doesn't alter the fact that for other people it's immersion breaking.

It's just a fundamental difference in the way we view things which is purely subjective. But to use a mini-game as a means to call it crap is just wrong. There is nothing wrong with mini-games and nothing wrong with this one except that you don't like it.
Agreed. It's subjective. Which is why it's perfectly okay for people to say they don't like it because it's a minigame - not liking minigames is a valid opinion.
So no, calling the FSS crap because it's a minigame isn't wrong, it's just an opinion. Try to remember the difference.

If we had our preferred probes system, that would equally be a mini-game. Just one you and I would both prefer over the old and new.
Yes, despite my best efforts to design something that isn't, firing long-range probes on intercept trajectories to distant bodies would require a new interface and constitute a minigame. However, in my opinion, the FSS's flaws aren't limited to it being an out-of-cockpit minigame - the requirement to be stationary to use it is a critical flaw, as is the fact that the mechanics are simplistic and repetitive. The lack of a (controlled) roll axis for the display further separates it from the core experience of flying a spaceship. The long-range probe system could address these problems with a little effort - more integration means it feels less like a minigame (like the interdiction mechanic or core mining).
 
Find someone inside frontier, familiar with the fss, that goes home and plays elite in anticipation of using the fss to go exploring or find signal sources.
I almost wet my pants laughing when I read that :D Best post ever!

It's like going home in anticipation of being hit in the nards with a hammer.

Get them to come on stream, and use it over an extended period
Now that's just mean... :D
 
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Subjective opinion. As valid as anyone else's, but it doesn't alter the fact that for other people it's immersion breaking.
Never said otherwise.

Agreed. It's subjective. Which is why it's perfectly okay for people to say they don't like it because it's a minigame - not liking minigames is a valid opinion.
So no, calling the FSS crap because it's a minigame isn't wrong, it's just an opinion. Try to remember the difference.
It's a mini-game they don't like. They are perfectly happy with other mini-games, jus not this one. So sayings crap just because it's a mini-game is wrong. Saying it's a mini-game that they don't like is perfectly valid.

Yes, despite my best efforts to design something that isn't, firing long-range probes on intercept trajectories to distant bodies would require a new interface and constitute a minigame. However, in my opinion, the FSS's flaws aren't limited to it being an out-of-cockpit minigame - the requirement to be stationary to use it is a critical flaw, as is the fact that the mechanics are simplistic and repetitive. The lack of a (controlled) roll axis for the display further separates it from the core experience of flying a spaceship. The long-range probe system could address these problems with a little effort - more integration means it feels less like a minigame (like the interdiction mechanic or core mining).
All can controls in a computer game are simplistic and repetitive. Can't get away from that unfortunately. Even the probe mini-game of ours would still have repetitive controls. Unless you want to change up the controls everytime we use it which would get on everyone's nerves. :)
 
All of the work the ADS used to reveal?
Never said that was the case.

That's your responsability to show.
No it's not.

1º Why is that relevant?
It's not but neither is the fact you can move while using the ADS. It's the fact that can use it while not moving is the point.

2º I was the one who said movement was irrelevant because exploration doesn't necessarily involve movement, however, being able to move while using either of them is a good thing and the decreased time spent using either of them means more time to actually go and see the planet for yourself.
I disagree.

3º What comment and in what sense?
In the sense that was written and what that this conversation has been about that you butted into, which you are allowed to as it's a forum, but I suggest you find out what it's about first. You seem to have a habit of doing that.
 
The endless circular arguments are getting tiresome. The simple fact is that the FSS debacle has completely and utterly ruined the game for many of us and FD knew that would be the outcome even before the imposition of the FSS. We thought they were going to 'improve' exploration, not flat out troll us after all this time.
 

Adam Bourke-Waite

Principal Designer - E:D
Frontier
Hello Commanders,

I wanted to drop in and let you that we have been reading your comments and are aware how some of you feel about the FSS.

When first designing the FSS, we wanted to ensure that it was engaging for as many different player types as possible, but also understood that it would not be possible to design a system that would work for everyone. Before the FSS was implemented, we also collected feedback from discussions on the forum and the beta.

Today, in its current iteration, we’re happy with how the FSS operates and feel that reinstating the ADS would be detrimental to the experience of exploration as it is now.

At the current time, we won’t be making changes to the core of the FSS. While we understand that this may be disappointing for some of you, we would like to thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts and feedback with us.
 
Thank you Adam. I greatly enjoy the current system as was evident from the feedback collected before this was made live. Its a much more engaging system.
 
At the current time, we won’t be making changes to the core of the FSS. While we understand that this may be disappointing for some of you, we would like to thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts and feedback with us.
Not changing the core is perfectly fine for me. But would you consider:

1. Removing the "throttle to zero" requirement?

We know how to use our ships, being able to move while scanning would be so helpful. (The FSS can handle motion. You can speed up your ship, then set the throttle to zero and use the FSS. The ship still takes a while to decelerate, things in the FSS are moving, but you can use it. )

Also, it would finally give some use to exploration in multi-crew.


2. Implement a "snap to target" function.

When your marker is close enough to a target (range can be adjusted in settings) and the speed you apply to the marker is low enough (speed limit can be adjusted in settings), the FSS automatically locks the marker to the object and follows it.

As positive sidenote, this would not only help when trying to catch moving objects, but also would make the FSS generally a bit more enjoyable to use.


3. Adding the ships radar into the FSS.

I would appreciate it so much, if i could see what's happening around my ship while i am scanning.
 
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