Could Frontier please demonstrate how to use the FSS enjoyably?

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If you read my post above, you'll notice that I haven't said a word about why people explore less and less. Just that they do. And the loss of activity is much more than what could be attributed to "some".
Then why bring up a load of pointless stats that only say that some people are not exploring as much in EDSM. The stat are pointless and don't really mean anything.

As stated EDSM is not a representative group as many of those are no longer active players and stopped playing well before the FSS came out.

Also there may be many more explorers since the FSS came out, but as most are not on EDSM you will never know. Again flawed stats.
 
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Then why bring up a load of pointless stats that only say that some people are not exploring as much in EDSM. The stat are pointless and don't really mean anything.

As stated EDSM is not a representative group as many of those are no longer active players and stopped playing well before the FSS came out.

Also there may be many more explorers since the FSS came out, but as most are not on EDSM you will never know. Again flawed stats.

At least EDSM stats are real.
As opposed to the speculation you're plucking out of your butt.

"EDSM is unrepresentative of exploration" - my word, that's your best joke yet.
 
As stated EDSM is not a representative group as many of those are no longer active players and stopped playing well before the FSS came out.
See, the thing is, I didn't use the total number of EDSM Commanders anywhere. I used the total new systems, bodies, stars, ELWs submitted. For estimating how many of the total might be using EDSM, I used Frontier's official data on how many systems have been visited so far (and how many have been uploaded to EDSM), as well as the DW2 roster's data.

The former assumes that players who are and aren't uploading to EDSM explore the same amount, although that might not be the case. After all, if a player used EDSM on DW2, they were more likely to finish than if they didn't. Which is actually quite curious, because using EDSM offered no relevant in-game advantage.

As for the rest of your arguments about representative sample sizes and whatnot, please pick up a statistics textbook.


@ picommander: What? I've said several times before that I believe the developers can do better than both the FSS and the ADS. The exploration update was rushed, but that's a management fault.
Also, don't get me wrong: it is good if you personally explore more. We aren't talking about individual cases, however.
 
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Just clocked another hour on the exploration account.

The rookie mistake frontier made from the top was focusing the new exploration changes on discovery of bodies... when the different permutations of what's available vs the number of instances possible of each is magnitudes larger. To the extent that any requests for more things to discover is a fools errand.. it will be impossible to add that much diversity to be convincing in an average sample size for an exploration trip.

The NMS opposite is also false, by being different every time they come across as the same (even quicker than elite, because its all pretend).

The exploration changes should have 100% been on the experience / mechanics. Discovery should be another reward like credits and tags. Not the intent. Or, the entire point should be about the experience of doing it.. the actual content is the token reward.

Right.. that's why the rest of the game is so appealing. From credits down.
 
See, the thing is, I didn't use the total number of EDSM Commanders anywhere. I used the total new systems, bodies, stars, ELWs submitted. For estimating how many of the total might be using EDSM, I used Frontier's official data on how many systems have been visited so far (and how many have been uploaded to EDSM), as well as the DW2 roster's data.
And. All you are doing is just rough extrapulation. It does not mean you are accurate. You may well be but there isn't enough evidence to back that up.

The former assumes that players who are and aren't uploading to EDSM explore the same amount, although that might not be the case. After all, if a player used EDSM on DW2, they were more likely to finish than if they didn't. Which is actually quite curious, because using EDSM offered no relevant in-game advantage.
So a load of assumptions. Dont act on assumptions. You act when you know that assumption is correct. As you will likely never know, it's all baloney.

As for the rest of your arguments about representative sample sizes and whatnot, please pick up a statistics textbook.
What argument. I am just pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. You may well be correct, but you equally could be wrong.
 
The exploration changes should have 100% been on the experience / mechanics. Discovery should be another reward like credits and tags. Not the intent. Or, the entire point should be about the experience of doing it.. the actual content is the token reward.

Right.. that's why the rest of the game is so appealing. From credits down.
I mean, I don't enjoy trading for the money of it. I enjoy it for the same reason I enjoy doing the exact same thing in Euro Truck sim. The experience. Driving from one place to another basking in the view along the way, trying not to rear end someone who drops out of supercruise in front of me cough cough ridiculous pop-in of other trucks on the road in euro truck sim cough.

The former assumes that players who are and aren't uploading to EDSM explore the same amount, although that might not be the case. After all, if a player used EDSM on DW2, they were more likely to finish than if they didn't. Which is actually quite curious, because using EDSM offered no relevant in-game advantage.
Not that curious. People who are more invested already are more likely to sign up to something like EDSM. therefore they are a self-selecting sample of people who are more engaged with exploration, and thus more likely to stick with something like DW2 to the end, to see that reflected in their logs.
 
Just clocked another hour on the exploration account.
Good for you.

The rookie mistake frontier made from the top was focusing the new exploration changes on discovery of bodies... when the different permutations of what's available vs the number of instances possible of each is magnitudes larger. To the extent that any requests for more things to discover is a fools errand.. it will be impossible to add that much diversity to be convincing in an average sample size for an exploration trip.
I don't believe that it is solely focused on that. It is one aspect of the exploration process. But I believe the biggest issue is that there are only non-atmospheric planets available to land upon.

The NMS opposite is also false, by being different every time they come across as the same (even quicker than elite, because its all pretend).
NMS for me is the worst kind of exploration.

The exploration changes should have 100% been on the experience / mechanics. Discovery should be another reward like credits and tags. Not the intent.
For me the FSS does exactly that.

Or, the entire point should be about the experience of doing it.. the actual content is the token reward.
I don't think that is correct. It's not generally about the experience of doing, its how the experience makes you feel is what is important. The mechanic could be the most simplistic ever made, but as long as it connects to you emotionally it is doing a good job. People seem to think that complex mechanics equals depth, personally I don't think so. But whether it connects to you emotionally is purely subjective.

Right.. that's why the rest of the game is so appealing. From credits down.
Like powerplay. ;)
 
The rookie mistake frontier made from the top was focusing the new exploration changes on discovery of bodies [...]
I wouldn't say that's a rookie mistake. Introducing new mechanics and interactions would have taken much more development time and resources. Both of which were quite limited, as we found out.

@ Max Factor: I find it kind of funny that you read the word assume, then jump on it and do a "rough extrapulation" by saying it's a load of assumptions. When the assumption I made there was the safest one. This is sounding like the "scientific theories are just theories" line.
Can you cite any reason why people who do or don't upload to EDSM would explore several times as much as the others?
 
I wouldn't say that's a rookie mistake. Introducing new mechanics and interactions would have taken much more development time and resources. Both of which were quite limited, as we found out.

@ Max Factor: I find it kind of funny that you read the word assume, then jump on it and do a "rough extrapulation" by saying it's a load of assumptions. When the assumption I made there was the safest one. This is sounding like the "scientific theories are just theories" line.
Can you cite any reason why people who do or don't upload to EDSM would explore several times as much as the others?
Can you cite any reason why they wouldn't. I am an avid explorer and have not gone near EDSM even though I know about it. I am sure there are many others out there too.

I think there are many players that have no idea that EDSM even exists, as there will be many players that are not on the forums, reddit or social media in general to know anything about it.

Whether they explore or not though, I don't know and either do you. EDSM active players are just a very small amount of the active population.
 
And. All you are doing is just rough extrapulation. It does not mean you are accurate. You may well be but there isn't enough evidence to back that up.

Statistics are used to extrapolate and are by their own nature rough, besides, you can still see the rough amount of players with SteamCharts.

So a load of assumptions. Dont act on assumptions. You act when you know that assumption is correct. As you will likely never know, it's all baloney.

Ermmm, this is just hilarious, everyone acts on assumptions, heck, even scientific theories and mathematics act on assumptions or else why do you think Occam's Razor exists?

What argument. I am just pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. You may well be correct, but you equally could be wrong.

"Don't act on assumptions." See? Even you assume and that's a very bold assumption.
 
Can you cite any reason why they wouldn't.
Sure. That would be because whether or not they upload to EDSM makes no difference to how much they could explore. Doing so offers no in-game advantage that would boost them to far more systems visited and bodies scanned.

EDSM active players are just a very small amount of the active population.
Is that so? Please prove this. What data can you offer us that would prove your claim that they are a very small amount of the active population, how much?
 
Sure. That would be because whether or not they upload to EDSM makes no difference to how much they could explore. Doing so offers no in-game advantage that would boost them to far more systems visited and bodies scanned.
Eh, that makes no sense to what was asked.


Is that so? Please prove this. What data can you offer us that would prove your claim that they are a very small amount of the active population, how much?
Oh the irony. I do the same as you and now you want proof.

I don't have any, just like you.

Thanks
 
Indeed, and all what really matters to FD is their very own telemetry data to where we all have no access to. And even if there's some truth in this data (whether telemetry or EDSM), blaming the FSS for that is just a premature interpretation and far from a "prove". Since the FSS is just a tool and no content, there's a lot of disappointment about the actual exploration content that FD has failed to deliver in the latest updates. I take the FSS as a prerequisite for future content and given their known development pace it's very well possible that we'll see the fruits of it sometimes in the next years, not even necessarily in the big 2020 update.

Also keep in mind that the majority of players are not involved in this forum. The sheer numbers of those who are seen on this forum and actual numbers of players are quite telling: we ALL are a tiny subset of all ED players while the FSS haters in this thread are a micro subset of an already tiny minority. And people who are unaware of this forum are likely also unaware of EDSM since FD doesn't actively support 3rd party sites and tools.

That's just to put things in the right perspective to some of the wisecrackers here.

Marx didn't blame the FSS.
 
If anything, all he said was that the introduction of the FSS only temporarily alleviated an ongoing trend which has continued since the initial widespread interest in the novelty of new mechanics died down.

No, but @marx don't know that the FSS was responsible for the temporary increase in exploration rate, because he hasn't gone around to every explorers house and personally asked them. It could have been purely coincidental.

It's wrong to assume that anybody used the FSS at all, if they haven't explicitly stated that they do.
 
No, but @marx don't know that the FSS was responsible for the temporary increase in exploration rate, because he hasn't gone around to every explorers house and personally asked them. It could have been purely coincidental.

It's wrong to assume that anybody used the FSS at all, if they haven't explicitly stated that they do.
Shhh!, don't fer cryin out loud let max know that!
 
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