CQC CQC: Don't know how things are this imbalanced.

[Deleted member 192138]

It's a CQC thread asking why things are so unbalanced. You seem to think only people that enjoy how bad a game mode is should have an opinion on how well balanced it is.

 

[SigilFey]

It's a CQC thread asking why things are so unbalanced. You seem to think only people that enjoy how bad a game mode is should have an opinion on how well balanced it is.

While I can easily respect the argument that the game is functioning as designed and new players simply need to better manage energy, farm the power-ups, etc., I also thank you for not backing down in your opinions when told you should not be speaking. Everyone is allowed to speak. Freely.

I would simply ask that everyone knock it off with the attitude, name-calling, and smart-mouth-ery. If you like it, fine. If you don't, fine. I didn't start this thread for it to become a hotbed of petty bickering.

Topic at hand is:
The default CQC (as it stands...whether you like it or not...) is neither welcoming nor conducive to ongoing play or loyalty to the game mode. Populations on maps are very low, and the reasons expressed are largely why. If the situation were different, the populations would probably be much larger.

 

[A C Ender]

You claimed a player was cheating, claim to have evidence but provide none, and/or that experienced players had an unfair advantage outside of their acquired skill, but doesn't listen to experienced players telling you where your (flawed - see power up duration for example) observations may come from. That's not a great way to hold a constructive discussion.

 

[SigilFey]

You claimed a player was cheating, claim to have evidence but provide none, and/or that experienced players had an unfair advantage outside of their acquired skill, but doesn't listen to experienced players telling you where your (flawed - see power up duration for example) observations may come from. That's not a great way to hold a constructive discussion.

I said: EITHER someone is cheating OR the game is very unbalanced. I love how people are focusing on only the statement they want to hear and not the entire argument.

And I do have evidence. It's not going up publicly ever. That would be public shaming, and that's not going to happen. I don't care one iota if the rest of the internet sees my evidence or not. It will be handled directly with Frontier, if they have any interest.

And I'm not following the logic of your statement whatsoever. "A person is discussing a couple of balance issues with the game. I disagree with their views, and they've not provided any evidence or named any names. Therefore, let's start flexing and mocking one another instead of having a constructive discussion. Serves 'em right!!!"

^ Really!?

 

[Ian Doncaster]

I said: EITHER someone is cheating OR the game is very unbalanced.

The weapons powerup has some design issues which make it too much of a force multiplier in mixed-skill Deathmatch games or heavily unbalanced TDMs ... and the game population is too low to make anything other than mixed-skill games easy to get. On the other hand it's not actually changing the result of the mixed-skill games. It just means they last two minutes rather than four, or whatever.

Personally I would make three changes to it:

• Make it mutually exclusive with Stealth - you pick up one, the other instantly drops. The combination of the two is too good (though mainly only a problem on Ice Field where they're too close together in the first place)
• Make it work like Shields - it slowly deteriorates over time, and quickly deteriorates if you use it, rather than having a fixed duration.
• Make it change your weapon graphics to "really big gun", and maybe put a glow around your ship even when not being fired, partly to make it easier to focus the weapons-user, and partly to give beginners some hints about what's going on.

None of those would stop it being used to slaughter beginners, of course, but they would make it a little less effective.

Everything else is pretty neatly balanced, at least for high-end play.


It amuses me really.
Main game PvErs: why don't "griefers" play CQC if they want a fair PvP fight?
Anyone who actually plays CQC: it's easier to bulk-slaughter beginners in CQC than it is in the main game, if that's what you're in to.

 

[SigilFey]

The weapons powerup has some design issues which make it too much of a force multiplier in mixed-skill Deathmatch games or heavily unbalanced TDMs ... and the game population is too low to make anything other than mixed-skill games easy to get. On the other hand it's not actually changing the result of the mixed-skill games. It just means they last two minutes rather than four, or whatever.

Personally I would make three changes to it:

• Make it mutually exclusive with Stealth - you pick up one, the other instantly drops. The combination of the two is too good (though mainly only a problem on Ice Field where they're too close together in the first place)
• Make it work like Shields - it slowly deteriorates over time, and quickly deteriorates if you use it, rather than having a fixed duration.
• Make it change your weapon graphics to "really big gun", and maybe put a glow around your ship even when not being fired, partly to make it easier to focus the weapons-user, and partly to give beginners some hints about what's going on.

None of those would stop it being used to slaughter beginners, of course, but they would make it a little less effective.

Everything else is pretty neatly balanced, at least for high-end play.


It amuses me really.
Main game PvErs: why don't "griefers" play CQC if they want a fair PvP fight?
Anyone who actually plays CQC: it's easier to bulk-slaughter beginners in CQC than it is in the main game, if that's what you're in to.

I like your suggestions! This is what I'm talking about. If the game modes are allowing single players to become that dominant in a match by exploiting the "extras", then I'd call that pretty unbalanced design. Something needs to be done to either level the playing field overall, meaning 90% of a match is based on effective piloting and use of a ships native systems, and 10% of the match can be nudged toward giving a few players a temporary advantage.

Or, they need to do something with the matchmaking to ensure players of the same skill level are all playing on the existing system (and avoid smurfs wrecking the experience for everyone new simply to jack up their stats). Frankly, the way it works now, I'd say rank should be based on accruing "experience". If you're going to put a level 50 Prestige pilot (effectively level 100) in the same match as new player on their very first CQC match...that high-ranking pilot should not be rewarded for farming inexperienced players multiple times within only 90 seconds -- before they even have a chance to get a feel for the game. I think granting "experience" for kills should be based on your level vs. the level of the pilot you killed. Hence, if I'm within 10 levels of that pilot, I get 100% experience. If I'm 11-20 levels above, I get 50% experience. And on until 30+ levels above, I get no experience for the kill. I think that would change the dynamic of the game and encourage higher-ranking pilots to focus on targeting pilots that will provide them with the most challenge and most rewards.

But yes, in the end, I think the power-ups are grossly OP. A mode without them might be a nice option.

 

[Dark Polo 65]

In all the years I've played (xbox), I've seen only 1 guy who came into CQC and was really amazing/challenging. And a very few who were somewhat practiced enough as pilots to show skill in close quarters.

Egon, you, SolitarySun, here are the top players in Xbox. Do you still play regulary on Xbox?

 

[schmicknick]

Egon, you, SolitarySun, here are the top players in Xbox. Do you still play regulary on Xbox?

Yeah... some days more than others is all. But I've run across a few groups of players since the leaderboards were added... some cool groups.

Egon isn't around atm.... and Solitary is mostly in-game lately. I finally did hit Elite in CQC... 1st guy on xbox tho Egon would have hit that before me if he'd kept on... and probably Khenistry also... but he also moved on a good while ago. (Khenistry was cool because he flew in a completely different style than Egon, but was exceptionally skilled and successful with it.)

You were also near the top of top-tier pilots... I wondered if you had played much when you moved to PC. Cheers... o7

 

[Dark Polo 65]

I just did a few rounds on PC and it was really fun. Some amazing pilots there !
I still play on Xbox from time to time, I'm currently trying to protect the asteroids in Boran with my Sidewinder . Until the game bored me again in a few days

 

[Morbad]

Or, they need to do something with the matchmaking

Problem with aggressive matchmaking is twofold:

• There aren't that many CQC players at any one time.
• The game ultimately has no way of knowing how skilled someone is.

If there aren't enough players to segregate matches, they can't be segregated if anyone wants to play.

One can usually infer some degree of skill for very high ranked players, but inferring the opposite from low ranks is less certain because there are alts and people simply experienced from the main game.

My first dozen or CQC matches were giant turkey shoots were I averaged less than one death a match, because I already had many hundreds of hours as a combat pilot in the main game and the population was initially quite large. I'm no match for the best CQC pilots now, but if you dump me into a game with only CQC pilots at my CMDR's CQC rank, who aren't alts, chances are I'm going to mop the floor with them.

That said, I do think the XP rewards should incentivse going after higher ranked players more, as I do occasionally see matches where a couple of veteran pilots will just avoid eachother while moppng up everyone else.

 

[Deleted member 192138]

I found it pretty common to observe teaming by the regulars in deathmatches.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

• There aren't that many CQC players at any one time.
• The game ultimately has no way of knowing how skilled someone is.

With a higher player population to work with, the second one shouldn't be that much of a problem - based on TDM auto-matching, it generally gets it reasonably right once people get to rank 10 or so (assuming that an even match is possible - three vets and five beginners is unsolvable) - and letting people who actually know how to fly get a couple of hours of "free kills" is probably fine.

It'll be interesting to see if the "queue from main game" option coming in 3.7 has a significant effect on numbers.

 

[Deleted member 192138]

Considering how few regular players there are there's no way for the game to do balanced matchmaking and still give people matches. Which is made abundantly clear in how squads aren't a private match/party mode. If the 4 people wanting to fight amongst each other were allowed this, then the one other person online and looking at the same time would never get a fight.

 

[Morbad]

It'll be interesting to see if the "queue from main game" option coming in 3.7 has a significant effect on numbers.

I forgot all about this.

Maybe I'll even be able to find a CTF match.

 

[[VR] Dr Gentech]

I forgot all about this.

Maybe I'll even be able to find a CTF match.

Could you link to anything about this? Been googling for a while lol

 

[Morbad]

Could you link to anything about this? Been googling for a while lol

Fleet Carriers Update - Beta 1 - Patch Notes

Greetings Commanders, The Fleet Carriers Update Beta will be going live 7 April at 11:00 (UTC). We will publish more information to a dedicated Beta section on how you can participate and what to look out for, when the beta goes live. Please find the Patch Notes below: New Features Fleet...

forums.frontier.co.uk

 

[CMDR Nathan Atterlein]

I wouldn't mind if the slf ships were available by default. Being forced to fly in a Condor until you reach something that handles better makes my stomach turn. Outfitting being xp locked isn't that much of a stretch, but this? Might even had the will to grind on if I wasn't glued into this dumpster.

 

[[VR] Dr Gentech]

Fleet Carriers Update - Beta 1 - Patch Notes

Greetings Commanders, The Fleet Carriers Update Beta will be going live 7 April at 11:00 (UTC). We will publish more information to a dedicated Beta section on how you can participate and what to look out for, when the beta goes live. Please find the Patch Notes below: New Features Fleet...

forums.frontier.co.uk

Crazy, I read that literally as soon as it came out and I could've sworn nothing like that was there. Maybe my eyesight's going or something. Thank you!

 

[MUSKETEER]

I wouldn't mind if the slf ships were available by default. Being forced to fly in a Condor until you reach something that handles better makes my stomach turn. Outfitting being xp locked isn't that much of a stretch, but this? Might even had the will to grind on if I wasn't glued into this dumpster.

Top rank unlocks aren't that much better than low rank ones. Main issue I find in low rank fighter is that you can't boost as often as you would like to, but that gets resolved at Rank 8 (which you get in no time), after that Condor is an excellent CQC fighter.. Actually Condor was the ship I got my CQC Elite rank with.. only later I started experimenting with other ships.
My approach to stick with Condor for a period of time was very pragmatic. I knew that every time I prestige I had to go back to it, so instead I kept playing with it to never feel I was missing loadouts I liked.

 

[CMDR Nathan Atterlein]

Top rank unlocks aren't that much better than low rank ones. Main issue I find in low rank fighter is that you can't boost as often as you would like to, but that gets resolved at Rank 8 (which you get in no time), after that Condor is an excellent CQC fighter.. Actually Condor was the ship I got my CQC Elite rank with.. only later I started experimenting with other ships.
My approach to stick with Condor for a period of time was very pragmatic. I knew that every time I prestige I had to go back to it, so instead I kept playing with it to never feel I was missing loadouts I liked.

If you say so. I have a feeling that I simply wasn't making use of the powerups enough to stay alive for longer. Kept messing around with faoff in the Condor, but the turn rate was still pretty abysmal compared to what I'm used to in the main game, that's why I'd love to sit in a imp or taipan instead. This is truly a completely different combat scenario than a wingfight or a duel outside cqc.

As far as I know myself, I'll keep coming back to cqc anyways, want it to work out better. The discord's probably my next best bet.